[kurtsimonw]

!?? Liverpool are absolutely NOT doing what Madrid did back then!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Liverpool will only get better if they buy great players, there's no other way...

I never said, or implied, that Liverpool were doing that. Porty said they bought the best striker in the World, and I said that doesn't always mean you'll become a better team just because you've bought a great player. At on the basis of this season, I'd say I'm able to backup my statement.

I disagree. And like you said, you create great teams, and it's nothing to do with buying great players. Arsenal for example are a great team, but great players? Maybe 1 in Fabregas, but even he's not done enough for me to be considered great yet.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: May 1 2008, 01:29 PM

[dst]

I never said, or implied, that Liverpool were doing that. Porty said they bought the best striker in the World, and I said that doesn't always mean you'll become a better team just because you've bought a great player. At on the basis of this season, I'd say I'm able to backup my statement.

I disagree. And like you said, you create great teams, and it's nothing to do with buying great players. Arsenal for example are a great team, but great players? Maybe 1 in Fabregas, but even he's not done enough for me to be considered great yet.

I agree, it does not mean that by buying a great player a team necessarily gets better. That does not mean it gets worse though. Also, a mediocre player does not make a team better either. The player has to suit the team but a great player that suits the team is better than a mediocre player that suits the team. However, I don't value your backup cause I don't think you can "count" the greatness of a team solely by results...

... and that's why Arsenal IS a great team even if they have not won anything in the past two seasons... the thing is, Arsenal also need more great players... what separates a great team from a great team that wins is simply more quality. United and Chelsea have a bench that can beat most of Europe's mid-table teams while Arsenal and Liverpool do not. Besides, Bergkamp's Arsenal had much great quality than this one, and that Arsenal made an unbeaten run of 49 games! And that Arsenal had greater players than this one does so...

[kurtsimonw]

Fair points. I think the problem with pretty much everything football related is that it's all opinion, there really is no right or wrong - hence all the disagreements. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[morgoth]

Kurt's talking about this! I think it did not go all the way in... but no one can be sure. Thing is, I wanted Chelsea to lose back then. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The third one tonight was not offside. Carragher covered Anelka, big mistake!

People saying Grant has done something Jose didn't do - beat Liverpool. Jose "lost" to them twice, the first time, the goal they lost to wasn't even a goal.

Ok, I see!
Actually the "penalty shootout" fooled me, I thought it meant one penalty (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) .
I think I was expecting something like "penalty shootouts" ... stupid me (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by morgoth: May 1 2008, 02:27 PM

[acid911]

Excellent article, R7. Though of course, it's a sad state of affairs it all had to come to this. At the very least, we lost 8 vital points against teams like Fiorentina, Atlanta, and co. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) And we've gotten things to the point that even if we win all the remaining three games, it still can't guarantee fourth for us. Things just aren't in our hands.

[Locke Lamora]

Arsenal for example are a great team, but great players? Maybe 1 in Fabregas, but even he's not done enough for me to be considered great yet.

Well, I think 8 goals and 18 assists is a bit special for a 20-year old...

[Jack Sparrow]

^^
Alright fine. He's a bit great. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Well, the problem is he's yet to win anything big in his career. Unless he does that, he's not even going to be in the running for the golden ball or whatever. He'll continue to be a excellent player for his particular team like I dunno Anelka?

I once heard Arsene said that Anelka was better than Henry. So theoretically if Anelka had stayed, he'd be great etc etc. But he moved on and kept moving, and while he played well for almost all his teams, since he's not won anything, he's just another good player. Henry played well, also won the EPL and went to the final of the CL. He's got stuff to put in the achievements column in his resume.

[kurtsimonw]

Well, I think 8 goals and 18 assists is a bit special for a 20-year old...

But he's not won anything. Even Ashley Young has put up numbers like Fabregas and I wouldn't consider him 'great', and I'm a Villa fan!

[Rossoneri7]

Excellent article, R7. Though of course, it's a sad state of affairs it all had to come to this. At the very least, we lost 8 vital points against teams like Fiorentina, Atlanta, and co. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) And we've gotten things to the point that even if we win all the remaining three games, it still can't guarantee fourth for us. Things just aren't in our hands.

Professional football players .. When they come to San Siro (and I have yet to here anyone say otherwise!), they leave it in awe. Because, when they were mere kids, this is the stadium which they witnessed Milan battle in and reach a champions league final one after another. And the chance to play for such a team, its an achievement for them! It's the weight of this team that will always keep it amongst the heavy weights .... Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Nottingham forest, etc these are just terminal clubs .. When you say Milan, Madrid, Bayern here you are talking about European powerhouses who have left their mark and even if they had fallen, will remain on top.

So, even if Milan end up in the UEFA cup, it's not a failure, but neither is it a success considering the weight of this club. It would just mean a setback, but the fact remains this is AC Milan let that be in 1997, 2007, or 2017 (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Rossoneri7: May 1 2008, 09:17 PM

[acid911]

So, even if Milan end up in the UEFA cup, it's not a failure, but neither is it a success considering the weight of this club. It would just mean a setback, but the fact remains this is AC Milan let that be in 1997, 2007, or 2017

Agree with you. Having said that, there is no such thing as success or failure - only results. An outcome. Success and failure are just relative terms. And if the result be UEFA Cup, I'll take it - no questions asked. As long as I get to see the players wearing Red and Black battle it out on the pitch. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif) To seeing us even finish 16th won't take away from the joy of May 23, 2007 or our earlier victories. The joy of being able to witness great players walk the grass of San Siro. You can't forget them. The only time the players needs the fans is when they're not winning. They need their support.

But all sweet talk aside, the fact remains that something still needs to be done. New blood is the need of the hour. Fresh players, new signings. Great clubs don't live in the memories of yesteryears. And I'm sure something will be done. A giant like Milan can't battle out for fourth place, two years in a running. It's a result that's just not acceptable, whichever way you look at it. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But yeah, I can't disagree with your post even if I tried.

[morgoth]

I once heard Arsene said that Anelka was better than Henry.

He was, is and will be more talented than Henry. The other difference between the two is the confidence Henry had when playing at Arsenal. If Anelka stayed at Arsenal he'd be know what Cantona was for Man U. A king.

This post has been edited by morgoth: May 1 2008, 10:34 PM

[Locke Lamora]

But he's not won anything. Even Ashley Young has put up numbers like Fabregas and I wouldn't consider him 'great', and I'm a Villa fan!

Arsenal

Winner
FA Cup: 2005
FA Community Shield: 2004

Runner-up
2003 FIFA U-17 World Championship
UEFA Champions League: 2005–06
League Cup: 2006–07
FA Community Shield: 2005

Individual
UEFA Team of the Year: 2006
Bravo Trophy (under-21 equivalent of Ballon d'Or): 2006
FA Premier League Player of the Month: January 2007, September 2007
PFA Young Player of the Year: 2007–08
PFA Team of the Year: 2007–08



Besides, there's a lot of great players who never won anything big.
Baggio and Batistuta were both fantastic players yet they never won any of the BIG trophies, except for Baggio's Golden Ball.

[Habitant]

Professional football players .. When they come to San Siro (and I have yet to here anyone say otherwise!), they leave it in awe. Because, when they were mere kids,  this is the stadium which they witnessed Milan battle in and reach a champions league final one after another. And the chance to play for such a team, its an achievement for them! It's the weight of this team that will always keep it amongst the heavy weights .... Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Nottingham forest, etc these are just terminal clubs .. When you say Milan, Madrid, Bayern here you are talking about European powerhouses who have left their mark and even if they had fallen, will remain on top.

So, even if Milan end up in the UEFA cup, it's not a failure, but neither is it a success considering the weight of this club. It would just mean a setback, but the fact remains this is AC Milan let that be in 1997, 2007, or 2017 (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

and who said that?

[morgoth]

and who said that?

Rossoneri 7, someone who have witnessed our 7 CL victories (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Habitant]

Rossoneri 7, someone who have witnessed our 7 CL victories (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

i wonder if he's even been in the san siro?