[CHU-LIP]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I now I took it to the extreme saying it was solely Ambro and Rino's faults in the first post, but when you have people saying he's garbage, you have no choice but to take it to such extremes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You always take the extreme when it comes to those two. Really unbelievable that at the same time your a so full of Pirlo who has been worse than them the last yearssssssss (well, obviously ignoring Rino's season under Leo, but that's just 1) and is nowhere close in Milan hero status as the other two are. Enough is enough, exactly...

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Jun 30 2011, 02:15 AM

[Fillipo Simone]

Talkin about extremes...you make one post and manage to stir up everything. Ambrosini never in his entire career played a better season the Pirlo. Who's been worse for the last seasons should be obvious, but in any case, is very relative. And who's a greater hero in Milan history is even more relative. You only can measure it by your very own personal bias, every single one of us. There's no definitive version or ultimate rank.

[CHU-LIP]

Ambrosini never in his entire career played a better season the Pirlo.

OMG! This is very untrue. Last few seasons Ambrosini was the obvious better one of the two. Ambrosini was our best midfielder in Leo's season, he and Ronaldinho were the two being the best usually, difference being Ambrosini more consistent than Ronaldinho. Ah , i will just stop, I just keep hearing people overpraising Pirlo and underrating Ambrosini. So wrong. Appreciation goes the wrong way here.

[han2503]

I can only LOL at your Pirlo related posts chu, not even going to bother

[drucurl]

Pirlo groupieism is a serious and dangerous illness that causes victims to discredit everything and blame everything ELSE for his failures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I honestly can't believe that Ambro OUR CAPTAIN and Rino are now being judged by how much support and protection they give his fairry @$$! Last time I checked they were supposed to provide GENERAL COVER FOR THE MIDFIELD AND FOR THE TEAM AS A WHOLE. But again it speaks volumes about the absolutely fanatical bias he is continually showered with by his fans! The almost religious zeal with which a player who has never been our best player for any one season and has left Milan for our rivals- is utterly incredible

If you read a Pirlo groupie's post carefully any fault or bad game/season whatever can be blamed on someone else or some circumstance that poor Pirlo had no control over. The REALITY of it all is that he's simply an above average CM with good technique. Ancelotti did what all good coaches do by hiding his flaws and maximising his strengths. Lippi followed suit. But Pirlo's failure to cut it under less than ideal circumstances whereby he transforms from a valuable component to a liability, clearly indicates that he can't be rightly labelled as anything more than a good player

[Jack Sparrow]

Pirlo groupieism is a serious and dangerous illness that causes victims to discredit everything and blame everything ELSE for his failures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I honestly can't believe that Ambro OUR CAPTAIN and Rino are now being judged by how much support and protection they give his fairry @$$! Last time I checked they were supposed to provide GENERAL COVER FOR THE MIDFIELD AND FOR THE TEAM AS A WHOLE. But again it speaks volumes about the absolutely fanatical bias he is continually showered with by his fans! The almost religious zeal with which a player who has never been our best player for any one season and has left Milan for our rivals- is utterly incredible

*sigh* Milan midfield = Pirlo, Clarence, Rino, Ambro. Subtract Rino and Ambro since they're providing cover..what do you get? Pirlo and Clarence.

And what does Ambro being our Captain have anything to do with it?

I think the fact that Pirlo couldn't fit tactically into Allegri's scheme is not being questioned here.

And Lampard and Gerrard can't play together in England, coz they're out of their tactical comfort zone. Ergo they suck.

Dude! Any player out of his tactical position where his strengths lie will look weak. Even within mid-field. But if you insist on looking at every player on the pitch one-dimensionally..then your point is valid.

Therefore according to you with skills put in perspective:

Primary striker: Scores
SS: Assists, Scores
Creative Mid: Passes, Assists, Scores
DM: Tackles, Passes to Creative Mid
CB: Defends
Fullbacks: Defends, Crosses

Unfortunately here's the thing:

PIRLO: Passes, Assists, Covers passing Lanes to cut space, Technical fouler par excellence.

Yup. Definitely not in your descriptive criteria for any position on the field. I see your point.

[CHU-LIP]

*sigh* Milan midfield = Pirlo, Clarence, Rino, Ambro. Subtract Rino and Ambro since they're providing cover..what do you get? Pirlo and Clarence.

What exactly do you mean with that?

[han2503]

Pirlo groupieism is a serious and dangerous illness that causes victims to discredit everything and blame everything ELSE for his failures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I honestly can't believe that Ambro OUR CAPTAIN and Rino are now being judged by how much support and protection they give his fairry @$$! Last time I checked they were supposed to provide GENERAL COVER FOR THE MIDFIELD AND FOR THE TEAM AS A WHOLE. But again it speaks volumes about the absolutely fanatical bias he is continually showered with by his fans! The almost religious zeal with which a player who has never been our best player for any one season and has left Milan for our rivals- is utterly incredible

If you read a Pirlo groupie's post carefully any fault or bad game/season whatever can be blamed on someone else or some circumstance that poor Pirlo had no control over. The REALITY of it all is that he's simply an above average CM with good technique. Ancelotti did what all good coaches do by hiding his flaws and maximising his strengths. Lippi followed suit. But Pirlo's failure to cut it under less than ideal circumstances whereby he transforms from a valuable component to a liability, clearly indicates that he can't be rightly labelled as anything more than a good player

Your rants really make me laugh sometimes dru, so biased! Keep it up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

What exactly do you mean with that?

He was trying to say that Rino and Ambro's main task was to provide cover for the mid-field. And I was trying to explain that Pirlo and Clarence were the goddamn midfield. So if they were not getting cover the problem lies elsewhere.

Look..I'm not bringing up Allegri's formation. I happily accept Allegri's formation and play does not suit the deep lying playmaker at all, so that's not my point. When Ambro and Rino had to function as mid-field runners obviously they cannot lay back and play the pure bodyguard role. So Pirlo often has to cover.

I mean, are han and I the only people who saw (during Leo's time esp) Rino up there near the D-box, while Pirlo has to take on the likes of Sanchez and Natale deep in mid-field when Udinese or some other team like that counter on the break?

My argument is solely with the "Pirlo does not fit in the formation ergo Pirlo is crap" opinion mongers. I have no problem with those who say "Pirlo did not fit in the formation, so he had to go". In fact if I weren't so sentimental, I would even agree with them.

[han2503]

He was trying to say that Rino and Ambro's main task was to provide cover for the mid-field. And I was trying to explain that Pirlo and Clarence were the goddamn midfield. So if they were not getting cover the problem lies elsewhere.

Look..I'm not bringing up Allegri's formation. I happily accept Allegri's formation and play does not suit the deep lying playmaker at all, so that's not my point. When Ambro and Rino had to function as mid-field runners obviously they cannot lay back and play the pure bodyguard role. So Pirlo often has to cover.

I mean, are han and I the only people who saw (during Leo's time esp) Rino up there near the D-box, while Pirlo has to take on the likes of Sanchez and Natale deep in mid-field when Udinese or some other team like that counter on the break?

My argument is solely with the "Pirlo does not fit in the formation ergo Pirlo is crap" opinion mongers. I have no problem with those who say "Pirlo did not fit in the formation, so he had to go". In fact if I weren't so sentimental, I would even agree with them.

I don't really think it was just me and you jack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Ambro as well, they were made to play as box-to-box mids while Pirlo stayed in front of the defense stranded. That is not how Pirlo should ever be played since it's suicide. I don't know who was telling Ambro or Rino to gallavant up and down the field like they're f'ing Essien, or whether they suddenly thought they were good enough to do such things, but it clearly never worked, especially since those 2 are 2 of the most limited players in the modern game. Rino was great when he stuck to his role under Carlo, ie retrieving the ball quickly and giving it to Seedorf or Pirlo quickly. Ambro personally I never rated since he always did ridiculous sh!t that never came off and thought he was the second coming of Redondo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[CHU-LIP]

He was trying to say that Rino and Ambro's main task was to provide cover for the mid-field. And I was trying to explain that Pirlo and Clarence were the goddamn midfield. So if they were not getting cover the problem lies elsewhere.

Saying Pirlo and Seedorf were the (goddamn) midfield is not only new to me, but also - in my opinion - a very disgraceful thing to say. I'm not even sure what you mean with that, but it seems to me you forgive all their flaws just because they are no DMs which results in all the blame on Ambrosini and Gattuso whenever Pirlo or Seedorf fucks up. That actually explains A LOT why I read so many anti-Ambro/Rino posts, and pro-Pirlo posts. I can't continue with this part of my sto-ry unless you tell me your definition of 'mid-field'. Though I can tell, having more than one midfielder that needs cover like that is a really bad thing. Of course you need to cover someone like Pirlo, but that doesn't mean he can do ****. When Seedorf's good side is on the pitch, at least he contributes a lot more than Pirlo. But when Seedorf is doing ****, he is the worst.

Look..I'm not bringing up Allegri's formation. I happily accept Allegri's formation and play does not suit the deep lying playmaker at all, so that's not my point. When Ambro and Rino had to function as mid-field runners obviously they cannot lay back and play the pure bodyguard role. So Pirlo often has to cover.

Ambrosini is a pure bodyguard? Are you for real? (He can, but he is more than that.) I expect way better from a Milan fan. Ambrosini is NOT a pure bodyguard. Do I really need to explain why he isn't? I would expect this from han, but I guess he's not alone. You really think our midfield existing/existed of two pure bodyguards?

Ambrosini does and can do more than bodyguarding. He also contributes differently, hence the disgraceful part.

I mean, are han and I the only people who saw (during Leo's time esp) Rino up there near the D-box, while Pirlo has to take on the likes of Sanchez and Natale deep in mid-field when Udinese or some other team like that counter on the break?

No, you weren't. But Gattuso actually contributed something when he does that. Of course you prefer someone else to do that, but it really helped us. He had lots of games he was so energic: defensive strong, and also creating some danger. And yes, Pirlo as anchor is an obvious fail. He keeps 'forgetting' to defend/mark a man. And loses possession way too easily. Such a liability.

So of course there was a tactical fail here. Yet Rino did well, Pirlo didn't though.

I don't really think it was just me and you jack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Ambro as well, they were made to play as box-to-box mids while Pirlo stayed in front of the defense stranded. That is not how Pirlo should ever be played since it's suicide.

Playing Pirlo like that is indeed suicide. From these three Ambrosini is best suited to box to box, clearly he isn't one though. Or you think Pirlo can do that well? Clearly Pirlo doesn't fit in Allegri's midfield. Seedorf is better suited for it than Pirlo is (both as anchor + as LCM, and as AM obviously too).

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Jul 1 2011, 01:31 PM

[drucurl]

*sigh* Milan midfield = Pirlo, Clarence, Rino, Ambro. Subtract Rino and Ambro since they're providing cover..what do you get? Pirlo and Clarence.

And what does Ambro being our Captain have anything to do with it?

I think the fact that Pirlo couldn't fit tactically into Allegri's scheme is not being questioned here.

And Lampard and Gerrard can't play together in England, coz they're out of their tactical comfort zone. Ergo they suck.

Dude! Any player out of his tactical position where his strengths lie will look weak. Even within mid-field. But if you insist on looking at every player on the pitch one-dimensionally..then your point is valid.

Therefore according to you with skills put in perspective:

Primary striker: Scores
SS: Assists, Scores
Creative Mid: Passes, Assists, Scores
DM: Tackles, Passes to Creative Mid
CB: Defends
Fullbacks: Defends, Crosses

Unfortunately here's the thing:

PIRLO: Passes, Assists, Covers passing Lanes to cut space, Technical fouler par excellence.

Yup. Definitely not in your descriptive criteria for any position on the field. I see your point.

LOL you selectively quoted part of my argument to pigeon hole it into something you can use to tell me how I interpret the game

I DID say that the CDM/DM's role is to provide cover for the midfield and for the TEAM as a whole.

But then again I don't even need to debunk your biased portrayal of my interpretation of the game because you once more proceed to shovel the blame back on Ambro and Rino for not being the Kevin Costner to Milan's Whitney Houston (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by drucurl: Jul 1 2011, 01:49 PM

[han2503]

Playing Pirlo like that is indeed suicide. From these three Ambrosini is best suited to box to box, clearly he isn't one though. Or you think Pirlo can do that well? Clearly Pirlo doesn't fit in Allegri's midfield. Seedorf is better suited for it than Pirlo is (both as anchor + as LCM, and as AM obviously too).

No he's not. Ambro is a very limited defensive midfielder, just because he occasionally scores a header, does not mean that he should be trying ridiculous things opr trying to run into the box when his job is to cover so we don;'t get caught on counter attacks. Do you ever see VB do sh!t like that? No. Becuase he's a disciplined DM who knows what he should and should not be doing. Ambro has no business trying to shoot from yards out, making ridiculous passes that never come off or trying to run into the box when he should be covering. Which is essentially all that he does (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Personally I don't want to see either Rino or Ambro on the pitch next season unless we have a massive midfield emergency situation or it's a Coppa match. Having either of them on the pitch is a huge liability, and don't try to tell me that Ambro had a good season under Leo or that Rino was good last season compared to his previous one, because those are ridiculous statements since both have been terrible in recent history and your only defense of either of them are a couple of average performances, which compared to their recent form, look "good"

VB should be our starting DM, and Flamini is the stand-in for the RM spot if we don't get anyone else, then he should start there

[vahid]

(IMG:http://www.irupload.ir/images/z0xe82stjzpm0rr6nf1.jpg)


Looks like a Palermo player (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[CHU-LIP]

Why does the pink one have different text on the front?