Thuram was a joke... I think Makelele was good. Gomis... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Like you said Del Piero has many appearances in the finals of these competitions but he never was as good as he is with Juventus.

I hope Italy go through. And I wish Italy or Holland win it! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There's nothing better... nothing better than to see France getting battered in a Euro/World Cup match.

That's what those cynical frenchies deserve. 4. Thank you Holland.

PS: Robben in-form is the best left-winger in the game by a country mile. No contest.

A handball is a handball wheterh it is intended or not. He stoped a certain goal illegally. Yes, it was impossible to move his hand out of the way, does that make it right? not for me.

Anyways, just got back from the pub, it was great, pretty much everyone was wearing Holland shirts for the game, and seeing the French get absoloutely humiliated is fantastic. van Der Sar, Boulharouz, Ooijer, van Bronkhorst, van Der Vaart, Sneijder, Robben, van Persie, Kuyt, van Nistelrooy.. wow, these guys have been amazing. Partucularly RvN and Sneijder who are my players of the tournement so far.

Question is, are Holland this good? Or are Italy and France that bad?

so? they had a penalty denied when it was 1-0,

and had a perfectly good goal ruled out this game besides the countless small calls that were blown throughout the game.

and exactly how many times have italy seriously benefited from the refs? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

all i can think of is that grosso penalty and i've seen angles were theres CLEAR contact (ya he went down easy) but in that same game there a was iffy red card given to materazzi when italy was in control.

Okay, now I'm really scared. I agree with Portikins.

That second game was a thing of beauty. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/96.gif)

i dont know why everyone wanted france to lose? (yes i dont like them either) but i'm more afraid of the dutch having nothing to play for against romania.

whether or not france won today dint mean much, because if italy beat them our head to head would see us through over them.

Depends if you're looking at the game as an Italy fan or not. Calls in the Romania game today were avout even. Yes Italy had a goal dissallowed unfairly, but they also got the benefit when Panucci should have been sent off for his foul for the penalty. If dragging somebody down by the neck isn't a sending off, I'll never know what is.

Italy had alot of nothing calls given to them today, I can recall Pirlo having ALOT of free-kicks than he missed, most of them were given for nothing. The World isn't against Italy y'know.

The only time I have ever personally thought the refs were against italy was in World Cup 2002, and I believe that tournement was a fix, and still do. But this tournement? The only terrible call I've seen is the penalty for Austria yesterday, the offside goal today? Looking at it again Toni was onside, but somebody else was off, so the linesman put the flag up early, that's all.


Why would we want things to benefit Italy? There's only one Italian on the forum. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jun 14 2008, 12:24 AM

But there are rather a lot of people of Italian descent (for example some of us living in North America). In footballing terms, I at least identify myself far more with the Italian national team than I ever will with the Americans. So to me, Italy is 'my' national team.

thats all? he's only not following the rules, thats all.

i dont see how england having some bad calls against have to do with this. is italy supposed to be punished because of that?

and the kind of contact panucci had on him, you see it all the time. just about every media report said it wasnt agree that it wasnt a penalty.

anyways i doesnt matter if they dint take advantage of all their free kicks and should have scored more, the point is they scored a legit goal and it was ruled off no reason.

you know in a 3 match group stage you need luck, which italy isnt getting. for a dozen match qulifier (which is against a lot of weaker teams), it shouldnt be that hard for the good teams to qualify, and if england failed to qualify because of 1 or 2 bad calls then thats unfortunat . the french scored an offside goal in the first minute in the away match, and the ref allowed an offside goal against and disallowed a di natale goal in the decisive match.

This post has been edited by Habitant: Jun 14 2008, 12:34 AM

well it seems quite a few want them to.

What happens: Italy qualify if...

It is out of the Azzurri’s hands, but they could reach the Euro 2008 quarter-finals even with a draw.

Holland’s 4-1 thrashing of France has sent Marco Van Basten’s men through to the next round and guaranteed top spot in Group C with six points.

The second qualification spot is up in the air, as Romania have two with France and Italy on one apiece.

This means that Romania will definitely go through if they beat Holland – something they already achieved in qualifying for this tournament.

However, it is possible that the Azzurri could reach the quarters even with only a draw against France.

That is because if Holland beat Romania and Italy draw with Les Bleus by scoring at least one goal, all three teams would be tied on two points.

The head-to-head record would be entirely even with a draw in each encounter, but Italy would have a better goal difference in these clashes, having scored against both Romania and France.

The fact remains that it is out of Roberto Donadoni’s hands, as Holland need to get a result against Romania.

This is worrying for three reasons and the Italian media is already swarming around two of them. Firstly, Romania won their qualifying group ahead of Holland, having managed a win and a draw in those encounters.

Second, the Dutch are already qualified and could field a second string side, safe in the knowledge leadership of Group C is assured.

The third and most dispiriting conspiracy theory is that the way the competition is structured means Holland could knock out Italy and France, therefore avoiding a potential semi-final rematch.

It brings back unfortunate memories of Euro 2004, when the Nazionale was eliminated despite beating Bulgaria in the final round because Denmark and Sweden drew 2-2 – the only result that guaranteed both Scandinavians would go through.


Channel4

Yes, a bad call, that's all. Just like many teams have.

England? Where on earth did I mention England? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

They agreed it wasn't a penalty? Then in my opinion they're stupid, he had is arm around his neck and dragged him to the floor!

Italy have had no luck? I think Nistelrooy staying up was enough luck. 9 times out of 10 a player would go down in his position, and then Italy would have been waving goodbye to Buffon and probably the Euro's with it. I know you'll probably say "But the fact is, he did stay up" but then it's also fact that the linesman put his flag up and disallowed the goal.

Yes, it is unfortunate that England didn't qualify through bad calls, just like it will be for Poland, and like it will be for Italy. Holland will play their backups against Romania in my opinion, and Romania will have a great chance of winning. And Italy and France will have no right to complain about it. Holland don't want to risk injuries, so it's fine if they rest players, and it's Italy/France's fault for getting stuffed by the Dutch, so I think as big as the Italy/France game may be, it could ultimately mean nothing. I see Euro 2004 all over again.

Well, both games were really interesting and entertaining!

Italy's match was really good, which reinforce my conviction about the French team!
As I said before I think Don did some mistakes in his line-up, Perrotta and Camo has nothing to do in the team, especially Camo who forced Pirlo to play on the left (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) he was poor and did nothing at all, the same goes for Perrotta he's not good going forward, I think Pirlo would have been better in that role (like in the world cup where Pirlo played in front of Rino and De Rossi) Don showed once again that he's not up to the task, putting Quagliarella instead of Di Natale was another mistake, Quagli is slow and couldn't add anything to the game while Toto would have been exactly the right choice with his pace and running, truly amateurish sub from Don who looked like giving his chance to Quagli to be on the field rather than looking for the right solution! The penaly was a good decision but I think if one should give that one then Toni wold have win 5 PKs today and there will be 20 PKs per game! The refs are just incompetent as always, nothing surprise me from them, in fact there's only one or two refs I respect, the Italian and the Swiss ones, the rest are awful especially the nordic ones! Toni wasn't good but it's not his fault, he never was a very technical or spectacular player, he's an inbox striker and scores always poacher goals, blaming him or benching him isn't realistic to me especially against France, Del Piero was very bad but he didn't play in his position and it was obvious that he can't run anymore! Lobont was simply amazing, he put some great and world class saves, he did the same thing against us when we played l'Ajax in CL quarter final back in 2003, I just hate those goalies who performs only in big matches and are very average the rest of the season ... he was the MOM though!

France's match wasn't quite what I expected at least from the Dutch! As usual France NT is too defensive and when ever they conceded a goal they just can't come back especially against an attacking team! Marco did surprise me when he subbed the 1.98m DM for Robben, that was crazy coaching, especially considering the fact that they were leading, but it paid off as Robben made an assist and scored, well done Marco you deserve Tennie cookies (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) On the other hand, the French coach is exactly like the Italian one, make stupid substitutions and line ups, still playing with 2 DMs and one striker when loosing is unacceptable to me, especially when you look at the Dutch defence which isn't the best, then putting Gomis, who never played in such an important tournament, who was behind Benzema for all the season is totally nuts! I don't know who clashed Toulalan, but I suggest that person watches the match again, he was certainly one of the best French on the pitch, Coupet was completely out of his game, I think he's in fault in the first 3 goals ... Sagnol don't deserve any comment, the fact that he didn't play 10 matches with Bayern tells a lot! Henry as usual proves me right again, he can't play football outside England! Sneijder was amazing tonight especially when he moved to the centre, the MOM for me!

This Dutch team is really an interesting one rather than impressive, they perfectly fit into the adage that says "The best defence is the attack"!

Anyway, well done for the Dutch, they're already qualified and 1st of the group and could (I would if I was Marco) knock out 2 of the most dangerous teams of the tournament and the last world cup finalists ...

you mentioned them in one of your earlier posts.

good for him i respect him for that, but the only way he was going down was if he dove. so to say italy was lucky they dint have a penalty awarded against them because the opponent dint dive, sounds rather stupid. buffons contact on him was minimal, because guess what if it was enough for a penalty he would of fallen. anyways toni was literally tugged down and tripped at the same time, yet no one talks about that (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by Habitant: Jun 14 2008, 12:52 AM

good thing holland isnt named italy, because we know all the bashing they would receive if they ever considered that. then again the same was the case in euro 04.