[Jack Bauer]

http://youtu.be/p4sTSyQXixE

Even Robinho laughed at that.

[X-Offender]

That's absolutely insane, but if you look closely the ball does bounce just as he's about to hit it. So, blame it a bit on the crappy pitch.

[X-Offender]

I just realized that Dortmund are second to last with only 7 points, having lost 7 of their 10 games. WHAT?!

PS: Meanwhile in the CL they have (as of right now) 12 points, 10 goals scored and 0 conceded. WTF?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[han2503]

I just realized that Dortmund are second to last with only 7 points, having lost 7 of their 10 games. WHAT?!

PS: Meanwhile in the CL they have (as of right now) 12 points, 10 goals scored and 0 conceded. WTF?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Jekyll and Hyde syndrome, we used to experience this under Carlo, obviously not this severe, but there usually is a reason for this. Most likely domestic teams know how to nullify them while continental ones can't

[Danny]

Wow. Panic buy or what? Makes one raise the question why they sold Kroos in the first place.

Guardiola is trying to turn Bayern into a Spanish colony.

Never saw this thread. First off it's turned out to be a shrewd piece of business. Real signed a younger model and Bayern saw a world class DM available for around £5M. They sold Kroos for FFP purposes and Alonso is absolutely perfect in the same role.

Smart and clever signing - Milan would kill small children for a player as good as Alonso. Brilliant though De Jong is, Alonso is better.

Many could even argue he's better than Kroos himself. But age counts, pardon the pun.

[han2503]

Never saw this thread. First off it's turned out to be a shrewd piece of business. Real signed a younger model and Bayern saw a world class DM available for around £5M. They sold Kroos for FFP purposes and Alonso is absolutely perfect in the same role.

Smart and clever signing - Milan would kill small children for a player as good as Alonso. Brilliant though De Jong is, Alonso is better.

Many could even argue he's better than Kroos himself. But age counts, pardon the pun.

You can't really compare De Jong and Alonso though, De Jong is a pure DM, nothing more, Alonso is a creator more than an enforcer. And yes, I'd kill to have him in this team, but just like Khedira and Isco, it would/will never happen

[Danny]

Alonso is widely regarded as a DM/CM. And De Jong has 2 goals plus quite a few shots. The guy is adding to his game.

[han2503]

Alonso is widely regarded as a DM/CM. And De Jong has 2 goals plus quite a few shots. The guy is adding to his game.

He's considered a DM because of the position he occupies, just like Pirlo is sometimes considered a DM. For me both are deep lying playmakers no matter how you wish to pain them, generally I'd use a CM to describe them although there are many different type of CMs so that's a hole other Pandora's box there

As for De Jong and him scoring goals, for me that's not something I really take into account when identifying what type of mid a player is. De Jong is fairly limited on the ball imo

[X-Offender]

Dortmund last with only 11 points. 3 wins, 2 draws and 8 losses! What the hell happened to these guys?

[kurtsimonw]

No idea. They've been fine in the CL. Lost to Arsenal in a game that didn't matter, the first time they played Arsenal it could've been about 6-0 they were that good.

[Danny]

He's considered a DM because of the position he occupies, just like Pirlo is sometimes considered a DM. For me both are deep lying playmakers no matter how you wish to pain them, generally I'd use a CM to describe them although there are many different type of CMs so that's a hole other Pandora's box there

As for De Jong and him scoring goals, for me that's not something I really take into account when identifying what type of mid a player is. De Jong is fairly limited on the ball imo

No one considers Pirlo a DM. He's a hybrid and unique player created by Carlo - as you know he was a trequartista at Inter, but Carlo had the brainwave of putting that kind of player in the DM slot, creating, as you say, the DLP.

Pirlo was the first, and I'd agree Alonso is that kind of player but with more defensive responsibility than Pirlo has.

[Danny]

Dortmund last with only 11 points. 3 wins, 2 draws and 8 losses! What the hell happened to these guys?

Implosion of constantly losing your best players and in their case not really replacing them with similar quality.

It's an extreme example of it, and they're clearly not the worst team in that league, but they punched above their weight in 2012/2013 and last season and now they're basically having a horrible hangover from the total lack of success it actually brought.

Immobile is a decent striker but nowhere near Lewandowski, and Ramos is plain average. And in midfield take out the brilliant Gotze and replace with Kagawa.

That all said they do have a much better squad than their current form suggests. It's probably the worst post-success hangover in modern football history.

Imagine how bad they'd have been had they actually won anything the past two seasons (I'm not going to count their charity shield).

[Fillipo Simone]

Dortmund last with only 11 points. 3 wins, 2 draws and 8 losses! What the hell happened to these guys?

Many small or big factors mingling together.

Firstly, they lost important players like Götze or Lewandowski. Secondly, the made transfers more in terms of quantity then real quality. Thirdly the constant injury crisis.

In the end, they lost confidence. While leaders like Hummels still don't play, the team actually does create loads of chances, yet misses to score. Against Frankfurt for example they were vastly superior and should have scored both the equalizer and the lead goal, but instead they missed and misses up until Frankfurt broke them with the 2-0.

[han2503]

No one considers Pirlo a DM. He's a hybrid and unique player created by Carlo - as you know he was a trequartista at Inter, but Carlo had the brainwave of putting that kind of player in the DM slot, creating, as you say, the DLP.

Pirlo was the first, and I'd agree Alonso is that kind of player but with more defensive responsibility than Pirlo has.

I forgot what we were initially discussing here Danny (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Sure, Alonso is more capable defensively than Pirlo is, but I'd never personally classify Alonso as a DM personally

[Danny]

I forgot what we were initially discussing here Danny (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Sure, Alonso is more capable defensively than Pirlo is, but I'd never personally classify Alonso as a DM personally

I'd compromise and say Alonso himself is a hybrid player. Doesn't quite have the vision of Pirlo, but still very creative and uses the ball extremely well, all the while helping out defence as well. Very much like Kroos really.

De Jong is a more traditional DM (a position which is really dying out tbh) whose focus is on enforcing and destroying in the middle, but he too is good with the ball and can occasionally support attack.

Once upon a time a raw DM (Keane, Makelele, Emerson) was a regular thing - nowadays that position doesn't truly exist, and anyone in that slot has to be much more general and capable of attacking - your Pirlos, Alonsos, Toure, Busquets - none of them can really be called a DM - they're a new position, sometimes called DLP.