[Fishdoll]

I'm with X-Offender on the Borriello issue. He's been very good, I think, better than a lot of people here want to give him credit for.

Linkman, can you provide statistics on who Ronaldinho's passes were actually to?

[Linkman]

Here's the article: http://www.lega-calcio.it/it/Sala-stampa/A...33-66CD3DD0B1D3

Maybe as low as one quarter of those passes went to Borri, but it doesn't matter... Most of his goals have come from individual plays rather than assists. I don't think he's bad, just that he doesn't fit our style.

[X-Offender]

I managed to calculate Ronaldinho's assist distribution in Serie A and according to my calculations, he's offered 8 assists to Pato, 4 to Borriello, 2 to Huntelaar and 1 to Inzaghi. Obviously, I'm referring to assists that were transformed into goals.

That pretty much tells you how dependant Ronaldinho is from Pato and how much our attack suffers his loss.

[Danny]

I must disagree on some points with you, Danny.

*rubs hands with glee*

First of all, without Nesta and Pato this team loses 50% of its capabilities. Nesta played about 30 games this season, and apart a few poor performances like against Inter or Manchester United, he's been rock solid and an undisputable leader in defense. Moreover, with him on the pitch, Thiago Silva's performance increases considerably as well. As for Pato, I think it's clear as crystal to everyone how his absence has affected our attacking maneuver. He's our best player after all.

Nesta is not the force he used to be, no matter how much you want to pretend he is. He's still a very good defender, but not only is his form patchier nowadays, but he is injured far too much.

As for Pato, he scores goals and no longer beats men. That's a lot of his attacking threat reduced. He's not the mazy dribbler he looked like being after his first season, but he is important. And I did say keep him.

Another point I don't agree on is your thoughts on Dida, Seedorf and Borriello. It's true Dida has saved our butt many times this season, but it's also true he's an inconsistent goalkeeper. He makes blunders every now and then and the defense doesn't feel safe with him on goal. I'd rather have an average and secure goalie like Abbiati then someone who could sink your match anytime.

Then why would you rather have Abbiati? Can you actually, btw, give me some stats as to how many matches or points Dida has cost us directly from his mistakes?

Same argument for Seedorf. He's inconsistent. He could play an amazing game against the best team in the world and then play some other 7-8 where he only walks and irritates everyone, players and fans. Besides, he's 34 years old for Pete's sake. I want him out as soon as possible!

I know he's inconsistent, and I point out he's an impact player - probably our most crucially effective player - he might not be a spring chicken but he's world class and always will be important.

And Borriello? Borriello has been splended this year. He fights like a lion and scores a lot. Unless we're able to sign someone of a higher calibre like Dzeko, he should and will be our main striker.

Splendid is laying it on a bit thick. He's been very good at times, and quite absymal at others. He's generally done well in the role he's been asked to play and given his limitations he's been better than he was last season, that's for sure.

A lot of your disagreements seem to be you just expressing your point of view under the guise of disagreeing with me, because a fair portion of what you say agrees with what I say.

[Danny]

I'm with X-Offender on the Borriello issue. He's been very good, I think, better than a lot of people here want to give him credit for.

At times I've said he's won me over completely. Then he's been completely average.

His problem is symptomatic of the entire club - inconsistent. At times I have been in awe of his goals, at others he's just been a frustrating figure.

[X-Offender]

Nesta is not the force he used to be, no matter how much you want to pretend he is. He's still a very good defender, but not only is his form patchier nowadays, but he is injured far too much.

Well, we may have different points of view, but to me Nesta is still the best defender in the world when he plays on a constant basis. Surely, he's not the Nesta he used to be 5-6 years ago, but that's mainly because people age and with age their skills are bound to drop. Nonetheless, I think he still has it in him and if he manages to play about 25-30 games per season, like this season, we should consider ourselves lucky.

As for Pato, he scores goals and no longer beats men. That's a lot of his attacking threat reduced. He's not the mazy dribbler he looked like being after his first season, but he is important. And I did say keep him.

Perhaps he's lost a bit of his one-to-one agility, but the kid's only 20 years old. He has great margins of improvement and like you also said, he's important, very important to us.

Then why would you rather have Abbiati? Can you actually, btw, give me some stats as to how many matches or points Dida has cost us directly from his mistakes?

Oh come on, defending Dida is way over-the-top mate. Do I really have to remind you all of the blunders and gaffes he's made during the last few years with us? Abbiati is a very good goalie, he rarely makes mistakes and offers security to the backline. That's all what a goalkeepr must possess. Either way, Dida's contract ends this season and it won't be renewed, that's 110% certain.

I know he's inconsistent, and I point out he's an impact player - probably our most crucially effective player - he might not be a spring chicken but he's world class and always will be important.

He is 34 years old! He plays in a position where he should defend and attack at the same time i.e. he must RUN! Does he ever do that? Rarely, only on big occasions. He's more damaging than useful and the soon we get rid of him, the better it is.

Splendid is laying it on a bit thick. He's been very good at times, and quite absymal at others. He's generally done well in the role he's been asked to play and given his limitations he's been better than he was last season, that's for sure.

Well, to each his own. I'm more than happy with what Borriello has done this season. But like I said, if we were to sign a better player, Dzeko for example, surely I'd prefer him over Bori.

[kurtsimonw]

He makes blunders every now and then and the defense doesn't feel safe with him on goal.

I'm no Dida fan, but this can work both ways. Dida probably spends more time thinking about that joke of a defense in front of him than he does on his goalkeeping duties. I think Dida's had a pretty decent season, he hasn't made mistakes with the frequency he has done in the past. That said, I don't care between him and Abbiati, they're no better/worse than each other.

[Danny]

Well, we may have different points of view, but to me Nesta is still the best defender in the world when he plays on a constant basis. Surely, he's not the Nesta he used to be 5-6 years ago, but that's mainly because people age and with age their skills are bound to drop. Nonetheless, I think he still has it in him and if he manages to play about 25-30 games per season, like this season, we should consider ourselves lucky.

If he's not the Nesta he was, how can you say he's the best in the world. The Nesta he was WAS the best in the world, but alas nowadays there are dozens of defenders out there who would consider themselves ahead of him in that pecking order. He's good, when on form, very good, but I'd argue Silva is currently one of those better than him.

Oh come on, defending Dida is way over-the-top mate. Do I really have to remind you all of the blunders and gaffes he's made during the last few years with us? Abbiati is a very good goalie, he rarely makes mistakes and offers security to the backline. That's all what a goalkeepr must possess. Either way, Dida's contract ends this season and it won't be renewed, that's 110% certain.

Abbiati is average. You said that yourself. Now you're saying he's very good. Which is it? Either way I'd say he's below average and for some curious reason his gaffes do not get highlighted in any way - Dida's do, mainly because his have been so high profile.

Neither goalie is ideal, and I'd rather have a new one entirely, but Dida is definitely the best we have.

He is 34 years old! He plays in a position where he should defend and attack at the same time i.e. he must RUN! Does he ever do that? Rarely, only on big occasions. He's more damaging than useful and the soon we get rid of him, the better it is.

Ronaldinho rarely runs yet was arguably our most effective player this season in an attacking position. Seedorf plays in varying positions around midfield, in a creative sense - defending is not his job just like it isn't Ronaldinho's.

Well, to each his own. I'm more than happy with what Borriello has done this season. But like I said, if we were to sign a better player, Dzeko for example, surely I'd prefer him over Bori.

I would say Bori has exceeded my expectations this season, given how absolute mince he has been for us in the past, and I've praised him for this. But he's got limitations and sums up the problems Milan as a whole have.

[X-Offender]

If he's not the Nesta he was, how can you say he's the best in the world. The Nesta he was WAS the best in the world, but alas nowadays there are dozens of defenders out there who would consider themselves ahead of him in that pecking order. He's good, when on form, very good, but I'd argue Silva is currently one of those better than him.

Well, alright, maybe he's not the best in the world, but he's still a top class defender and if we managed to win 10 games out of 12 a few months ago was mostly because of his contribution (both in scoring goals and defending), and with Thiago they form an exceptional defensive duo.

Abbiati is average. You said that yourself. Now you're saying he's very good. Which is it? Either way I'd say he's below average and for some curious reason his gaffes do not get highlighted in any way - Dida's do, mainly because his have been so high profile.

Neither goalie is ideal, and I'd rather have a new one entirely, but Dida is definitely the best we have.

Average, very good, take what you like. What counts is that Abbiati is better than Dida. Last season he was exceptional and the few games he played this year were convincing enough for my consideration. And he doesn't make childish errors.

Ronaldinho rarely runs yet was arguably our most effective player this season in an attacking position. Seedorf plays in varying positions around midfield, in a creative sense - defending is not his job just like it isn't Ronaldinho's.

But Seedorf is a midfielder. And in the system Leonardo opts, the 4-2-1-3, he has the duty to support the attacking trio and aid the defensive duo behind him. You can't expect the sole Pirlo and Ambrosini to fend off the opponent's attacks. When I say get rid of him, I also mean to find a substitute for him, and Hernanes could be a valid choice. He's young, he's versatile, he has good creative and defending skills, since his original position is that in front of the defense. Seedorf is an old, tired and demotivated fart. We can't rely on him anymore like we used to in the past.

[Danny]

Well, alright, maybe he's not the best in the world, but he's still a top class defender and if we managed to win 10 games out of 12 a few months ago was mostly because of his contribution (both in scoring goals and defending), and with Thiago they form an exceptional defensive duo.

Unfortunately all of the above depends on form and injury free - 2 things which, in the first place, were my case regarding him.

Average, very good, take what you like.

I'll let you decide which one it is as you clearly can't make up your own mind.

What counts is that Abbiati is better than Dida.

Uh huh. Can you back this up?

Last season he was exceptional and the few games he played this year were convincing enough for my consideration. And he doesn't make childish errors.

He does make errors actually. Like I said, they just don't get the same exposure. And what in God's name does it mean to call them 'childish' errors - more than criticising Dida, you're slurring his character as if he's somehow immature.

But Seedorf is a midfielder. And in the system Leonardo opts, the 4-2-1-3,

Disagree. That's not the system Leo adopts.

he has the duty to support the attacking trio and aid the defensive duo behind him. You can't expect the sole Pirlo and Ambrosini to fend off the opponent's attacks. When I say get rid of him, I also mean to find a substitute for him, and Hernanes could be a valid choice. He's young, he's versatile, he has good creative and defending skills, since his original position is that in front of the defense. Seedorf is an old, tired and demotivated fart. We can't rely on him anymore like we used to in the past.

Seedorf has single handedly won us matches this season. He was the difference against Marseille, he was the difference V Bologna, he kept us in the Man Utd tie.

To call him what you just has is sheer nonsense, misguided and totally unfair.

You're slurring Milan players in ways I really wouldn't normally expect to see on this forum.

[X-Offender]

Uh huh. Can you back this up?

I don't need to back it up. His performances do.

Disagree. That's not the system Leo adopts.

Then let's have it, what system does Leo play?

Seedorf has single handedly won us matches this season. He was the difference against Marseille, he was the difference V Bologna, he kept us in the Man Utd tie.

But what about the rest of season? I already said that he can be the best midfielder in the world when he wants to, but most of the time he's just a tired old turtle dragging on field, because neither his age nor his motivations allow him to be consistent.

To call him what you just has is sheer nonsense, misguided and totally unfair.

You're slurring Milan players in ways I really wouldn't normally expect to see on this forum.

The truth is bitter though, isn't it? Danny, it seems to me you're still tied emotionally to Dida and Seedorf for what they've given us in the last 7-8 years. You have to realize people get old and things can't stay the same forever. Don't get stuck in the past like that **** of Galliani. It's time we let go of the past and sign new, fresh and prospective players, otherwise we'll be stuck in this situation forever.

[MizNelson]

Average, very good, take what you like. What counts is that Abbiati is better than Dida. Last season he was exceptional and the few games he played this year were convincing enough for my consideration. And he doesn't make childish errors.

The keywords in this post are "last year." Dida has more than held his own against the Abbiati gravy train this season.

Abbiati just can't manage to play a full season with this club to save his life. He's never been world class with Milan and to say he's better than Dida is just laughable.

Oh come on, defending Dida is way over-the-top mate. Do I really have to remind you all of the blunders and gaffes he's made during the last few years with us? Abbiati is a very good goalie, he rarely makes mistakes and offers security to the backline.

Yadda, yadda, yadda. It's not as if Abi was anything special during the last few years either.

Why is defending Dida so over the top?

[Linkman]

Abbiati has made the same mistakes Dida has.

Except Dida actually makes impressive, game-winning saves from time to time while Abbiati at his best is just... ok.

[X-Offender]

Wow, this forum must be some Dida worship shrine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Dida has been a mockery since he got hit by that flare in the Eurodebry. His howlers have been terrific and his unsecurity is almost laughable. The only thing that's kept his diginity intact are those incredible saves that he makes every now and then, like against Chievo or some other time.

And this is not just my opinion. I live in Milan. I've been to San Siro many times. Believe me, everyone I've met hates his guts. I personally don't, and I'm grateful to all he's done for us in the golden years. But he's not a reliable goalie anymore.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Apr 25 2010, 11:50 PM

[kurtsimonw]

Wow, this forum must be some Dida worship shrine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

It's pretty much the opposite. You can probably count on one hand how many people think Dida is good. In fact I can't really think of any major mistakes he's made this season.