[Zed.D]

Leader islamici contro il Milan: "Ha la croce sulla maglia"

Nessun musulmano dovrebbe indossare la casacca del Milan. «È pericolosa» perché contiene la raffigurazione di una croce, «simbolo di un'altra religione». È questo il monito che due leader islamici della Malesia hanno rivolto a calciatori e fedeli musulmani invitandoli a non vestire magliette «sataniche» o «infedeli». Lo ha riferito ieri l'agenzia cattolica Fides. Ma l'appello non riguarda soltanto il Milan: anche il Manchester United è finito nella lista nera degli ulema perché la sua divisa raffigura il diavolo, così come di Barcellona, Serbia, Norvegia, Portogallo e Brasile, i cui simboli contengono croci cristiane. Il monito ha scatenato un ampio dibattito in Malesia, dove, tra l'altro, il Manchester United ha un grande seguito, tanto che nel 2006 è stato siglato un accordo tra il club inglese e l'ente turistico nazionale. Molti giovani hanno protestato sul web, chiedendosi, ironicamente, «se gli ulema non siano tifosi del Liverpool». Ma per Nooh Gadot, leader del Consiglio religioso della città di Johor, nessuna fede calcistica può fare eccezione.«Un musulmano non dovrebbe venerare simboli di altre religioni o il diavolo», è stato il monito dell'ulema, che ha precisato: «Un vero musulmano non dovrebbe né comprarle né accettarle in regalo».
http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=30524



Google translates:



Islamic leaders against Milan: "Has the cross on the shirt"

Muslim should wear the Milan shirt. "It is dangerous" because it contains a representation of a cross, symbol of another religion. " This is the warning that two Islamic leaders in Malaysia have turned to football and inviting Muslims not to wear shirts "satanic" or "infidels." The agency said yesterday the Catholic Fides. But the appeal is not only AC Milan Manchester United also finished in the black list of the ulema because his uniform represents the devil, as well as Barcelona, Serbia, Norway, Portugal and Brazil, whose symbols include Christian crosses. The warning has sparked a wider debate in Malaysia, where, among others, Manchester United has a great following, so that in 2006 an agreement was signed between the English club and the national tourist office. Many young people have protested on the internet, wondering, ironically, "if the ulema are not Liverpool fans." But Nooh Gadot, leader of the Religious Council of the city of Johor, no faith can do except football. "A Muslim should not worship symbols of other religions or the devil," was the warning dell'ulema who stated: "A true Muslim should neither buy nor accept a gift."

Seriously, WTF?

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Jul 24 2010, 04:53 PM

[kurtsimonw]

It's getting to the point where I'm shocked if I don't read about something like this regarding religion.

[Locke Lamora]

Nothing new. I remember when Inter played Fenerbache a few years ago and some Turk threw a fit because the Inter jerseys had a red cross on it (as far as I know it's the same that Milan has in their crest, the cros of Milano's patron St. Ambrose).

Well, in order not to be Islamophobic or offensive or colonialist or imperialist or superiorist or rascist or intolerant I guess we all have to keep quiet and let the blissful believers practise their beautiful creed in peace, no?

[Fishdoll]

Actually it's the cross of St. George, which is part of the emblem of the city of Milan. St. Ambrose is represented, oddly enough, by a beehive.

[MizNelson]

Islamic leaders against Milan: "Has the cross on the shirt"

And I guarantee that it's because we're now suddenly sponsored by Emirates (the same airline who do not allow homosexual staff members). To these people, I say:

Get.

A.

Life.

Thank you.

[Locke Lamora]

Actually it's the cross of St. George, which is part of the emblem of the city of Milan. St. Ambrose is represented, oddly enough, by a beehive.

Really? I thought it was Genova who had St George as their 'posterboy'... reminds me of how England's flag really is borrowed from the Genoese Republic in the late middle ages. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Other than that, I completely second MizNelson's point(s).

[kurtsimonw]

I swear, it won't be too long until England will be forced to change their flag, it seems to offend everyone these days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Ry4n]

I swear, it won't be too long until England will be forced to change their flag, it seems to offend everyone these days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

get a grip dude thats never going to happen....

This post has been edited by Ry4n: Jul 25 2010, 02:32 AM

[kurtsimonw]

get a grip dude thats never going to happen....

Get a grip? The countries own flag has been banned from places of work, I think I'm about the last person that needs to 'get a grip' regarding this matter.

[Ry4n]

And I guarantee that it's because we're now suddenly sponsored by Emirates (the same airline who do not allow homosexual staff members). To these people, I say:

Get.

A.

Life.

Thank you.

Go to the bible belt country in the USA and say to them im openly homosexual and see if they give you a job i dont think they will... because christians and muslims are the same in this aspect not all christians of course but some and not all muslims either......double standards i think , im glad there are laws in America that allow homesexuals there human rights not based on sexual preference but as humans and that they can sue the person who doesnt allow them to work there just because there homosexual , and im ashamed that there arent any in place in the middle east because state and religion are so intertwined. Yet in lebanon they have recently been having protests to change the law hopefully the suceed , unfortunatley the gulf region are not democracies so its even harder to change there system.

I say go and watch the movie Milk and see what america was in the 1970's

This post has been edited by Ry4n: Jul 25 2010, 02:46 AM

[Ry4n]

Nothing new. I remember when Inter played Fenerbache a few years ago and some Turk threw a fit because the Inter jerseys had a red cross on it (as far as I know it's the same that Milan has in their crest, the cros of Milano's patron St. Ambrose).

Well, in order not to be Islamophobic or offensive or colonialist or imperialist or superiorist or rascist or intolerant I guess we all have to keep quiet and let the blissful believers practise their beautiful creed in peace, no?

i guess you will because words are cheap and the flag won't ever change...

[vahid]

same for Manchester United

[Locke Lamora]

Go to the bible belt country in the USA and say to them im openly homosexual and see if they give you a job i dont think they will... because christians and muslims are the same in this aspect not all christians of course but some and not all muslims either......double standards i think , im glad there are laws in America that allow homesexuals there human rights not based on sexual preference but as humans and that they can sue the person who doesnt allow them to work there just because there homosexual , and im ashamed that there arent any in place in the middle east because state and religion are so intertwined. Yet in lebanon they have recently been having protests to change the law hopefully the suceed , unfortunatley the gulf region are not democracies so its even harder to change there system.

I say go and watch the movie Milk and see what america was in the 1970's

What America was like 40 years ago is pretty irrelevant, and it's ridiculous to try comparing present-day USA with anything that goes on in the Islamic world and/or imply that there is any kind of "double standards" to that.

As for your second point, words may be cheap but in some cases they are vital. We are suffering an identity crisis in Europe at the moment, of what we are, and how came to be what we are. The last point there is very impotant, it seems that today, most of us living in the west have little or no idea of how we actually got here, how hard those liberties we enjoy today had to be fought for through centuries. And if fou don't know how you attained the rights you have, you sure won't notice when they are slowly taken away from you. And it looks like freedom of expression will be the first to go.

This post has been edited by Locke Lamora: Jul 25 2010, 02:50 PM

[Ry4n]

What America was like 40 years ago is pretty irrelevant, and it's ridiculous to try comparing present-day USA with anything that goes on in the Islamic world and/or imply that there is any kind of "double standards" to that.

As for your second point, words may be cheap but in some cases they are vital. We are suffering an identity crisis in Europe at the moment, of what we are, and how came to be what we are. The last point there is very impotant, it seems that today, most of us living in the west have little or no idea of how we actually got here, how hard those liberties we enjoy today had to be fought for through centuries. And if fou don't know how you attained the rights you have, you sure won't notice when they are slowly taken away from you. And it looks like freedom of expression will be the first to go.

firstly i don't agree its irrelevant and no its not ridiculous at all and i will compare the two because some Christians and some Muslims are the same in this aspect of Homosexuals and rights Obama coud'nt even say the word Gay marrige when he ran for president...and you site america was like this 40 years ago...

what rights are being taken away from you ? The freedom to express bigotry ?

I believe in freedom of expression, but not when it demonises minorities just like the BNP in england is. The rise of islamophobia in europe is rife and should be stopped immediately just like Antisemitism was stopped in europe it looks like its time for islamphobia to be stopped and is being done so from Anti facist campaigners such as UAF : Unite Against Fascism in the UK and many more across europe and i would gladly protest with them any day to stop dismcirmination and biggotory that shouldn't be accepted in society at all full stop.

Freedom of speech does not mean you can express racist views

Thats all i have to say on the matter.

This post has been edited by Ry4n: Jul 25 2010, 03:16 PM

[Locke Lamora]

firstly i don't agree its irrelevant and no its not ridiculous at all and i will compare the two because some Christians and some Muslims are the same in this aspect of Homosexuals and rights Obama coud'nt even say the word Gay marrige when he ran for president...and you site america was like this 40 years ago...

what rights are being taken away from you ? The freedom to express bigotry ?

I believe in freedom of expression, but not when it demonises minorities just like the BNP in england is. The rise of islamophobia in europe is rife and should be stopped immediately just like Antisemitism was stopped in europe it looks like its time for islamphobia to be stopped and is being done so from Anti facist campaigners such as UAF : Unite Against Fascism in the UK and many more across europe and i would gladly protest with them any day to stop dismcirmination and biggotory that shouldn't be accepted in society at all full stop.

Freedom of speech does not mean you can express racist views

Thats all i have to say on the matter.

So much nosense there I don't know where to start.
Listen chap, freedom of expression means the freedom to express yourself. It doesn't mean freedom of expression as long as it doesn't inflame or provoke etc. It means you can express your opinion, and the same freedom also allows the rest of society to hit back at expressions that are fascist and/or rascist.

Secondly, Islamophobia is a complete nonsense-term. It is basically an excuse to stop any criticism of every aspect of a religion that for good reason gets a lot of flak at the the moment.
What IS rife in europe is various forms of racism, in some cases the victims are muslims, in other they are Jews and so on. I think everyone agree that racism is disgusting and should be condemned at every opportunity. Unfortunately, these days it is being used to stifle debate, to stop important issues such as the fact that NO ISLAMIC ORGANIZATION is willing to state that apostates from Islam should not be sentenced to death. Whenever anyone tries to highlight and criticise this, he 'Islamophobia' card is played and the debate is over.

Finally, the UAF probably has the very best intentions in doing what they do, but they're failing miserably. What they mainly do is to storm rallies and interrupt debates where parties like the BNP are present, and so they give the fascists a point: "look, they talk of freedom of expression, but they won't give it to us", enabling them to play the victim. And I'd say that the Respect party in the UK is every bit as revolting as the BNP.

Freedom of expression means the freedom to express yourself, full stop. There is of course a line between expressing yourself and inciting racial hatred and violence, but don't pretend that solely muslims are the victims of this. In fact, if you want to hear any of the above, your best bet would be a mosque.

This post has been edited by Locke Lamora: Jul 25 2010, 03:50 PM