[Milan Are Brilli...]

All World Cup 2014 talk in here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[han2503]

Yeah exactly, they couldn't beat us in the Euros so it works for us.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

"couldn't beat us" is a quote that speaks for itself and the level of ambition the English have for this game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In all seriousness though Italy outclassed England in the Euros and had they advanced it would have been a huge injustice. In all honesty Italy should have won that game in the 90 minutes.

But I don't really get what your initial point was about pace... I'm supposing you meant that Italy's lack of pace would be beneficial for England. But in what way? Since going by your latest comment you don't expect to win, just to not lose

[kurtsimonw]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

"couldn't beat us" is a quote that speaks for itself and the level of ambition the English have for this game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In all seriousness though Italy outclassed England in the Euros and had they advanced it would have been a huge injustice. In all honesty Italy should have won that game in the 90 minutes.

But I don't really get what your initial point was about pace... I'm supposing you meant that Italy's lack of pace would be beneficial for England. But in what way? Since going by your latest comment you don't expect to win, just to not lose

Yeah, but the game was 0-0. Did I say we would win? No. Did I say we would draw? No. I just think a lack of pace certainly helps England. Italy didn't have any pace at the Euros and it helped. They couldn't get in behind, they didn't have players that would run at us. It was shots from distance or them trying to play the ball through our defence and not being able to. I don't really know what you expect me to say. One minute you say Italy are better than England, the next you find it odd I think us not losing is good thing.

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jun 5 2014, 11:24 PM

[X-Offender]

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

Exactly. Except for Barça and Madrid, the rest are all Europa League level. Atletico doesn't even count cos next season they'll be a former shadow of this season's side. Mark my words. Seasons like this happen only once in a lifetime for clubs like Atletico.

[Danny]

Exactly. Except for Barça and Madrid, the rest are all Europa League level. Atletico doesn't even count cos next season they'll be a former shadow of this season's side. Mark my words. Seasons like this happen only once in a lifetime for clubs like Atletico.

It's only happening to Atletico because Chelsea have just taken their best 4 players! I now agree Atleti are unlikely to sustain this next season simply because no team on earth could cope with their star striker, goalie, midfielder and LB all leaving.

And that's without even mentioning Miranda and Turan who'll probably move too.

Shame, they've become prey to the vultures.

[X-Offender]

It's only happening to Atletico because Chelsea have just taken their best 4 players! I now agree Atleti are unlikely to sustain this next season simply because no team on earth could cope with their star striker, goalie, midfielder and LB all leaving.

And that's without even mentioning Miranda and Turan who'll probably move too.

Shame, they've become prey to the vultures.

Even if they don't sell anyone it still wouldn't matter. When a club overachieves one season, the next season players are drained of motivation and energy, morally and physically. Milan in 2007 and Inter in 2010 are prime examples of that.

[Danny]

Even if they don't sell anyone it still wouldn't matter. When a club overachieves one season, the next season players are drained of motivation and energy, morally and physically. Milan in 2007 and Inter in 2010 are prime examples of that.

Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

[X-Offender]

Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club? Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).

[Danny]

They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club?

Yup. That was the kind of shoddy result they had under Zacherroni, Mancini, Benitez...
That often happens when a great team loses its marquee manager.

Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

Because Jose left and was replaced by infamously poor Benitez who couldn't handle domestic football outwith Spain.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).

No, I was referring to the season before this one where they made the CL final but were MILLLLLLLLLLLLES off Bayern in the league - 30 - points behind.

This season, without Goetze especially, they really struggled - nowhere near the same force in CL albeit still about the same in the league.

But the point is about Atleti - how have they overachieved? You say Dortmund 'have' a fantastic team. Does this mean Atleti don't?

This post has been edited by Danny: Jun 7 2014, 01:27 AM

[X-Offender]

Yup. That was the kind of shoddy result they had under Zacherroni, Mancini, Benitez...
That often happens when a great team loses its marquee manager.

Why are you even mentioning Zaccheroni? We're obviously talking about post-Calciopoli Inter here, when they grounded themselves as a local powerhouse. Before Mourinho took over they had two excellent seasons under Mancini. Granted, they failed in Europe, but so did Mourinho in his first season with them.

I'm not saying Mourinho's departure didn't have any effects on the team, but the players couldn't handle another season at extreme levels after giving their 110% in the prior one. In fact, that's why I think Mourinho left in the first place. He sniffed the inevitable deterioration and decided to leave as a winner.

Because Jose left and was replaced by infamously poor Benitez who couldn't handle domestic football outwith Spain.

Or maybe because the players didn't want Benitez? Yeah, remember those phone calls between Mourinho and the senators? Another aspect to take into consideration.

No, I was referring to the season before this one where they made the CL final but were MILLLLLLLLLLLLES off Bayern in the league - 30 - points behind.

This season, without Goetze especially, they really struggled - nowhere near the same force in CL albeit still about the same in the league.

Klopp made it pretty clear that that season they were going to focus on the CL after coming from two consecutive league titles. So, that 30-point gap isn't such a shock.

And yes, this season they did struggle, but you yet fail to take into account the many, many injuries that plagued the team. Anyone who watches the Bundesliga can confirm this.

But the point is about Atleti - how have they overachieved? You say Dortmund 'have' a fantastic team. Does this mean Atleti don't?

No, I don't think they do. Atletico's primary and only strength is the collective and discipline. They have very average players and play some boring and unattractive football, unlike Dortmund who have great players in every role and are a feast to watch. Plus Dortmund have been much more consistent than Atletico overall.

[Danny]

Why are you even mentioning Zaccheroni? We're obviously talking about post-Calciopoli Inter here, when they grounded themselves as a local powerhouse. Before Mourinho took over they had two excellent seasons under Mancini. Granted, they failed in Europe, but so did Mourinho in his first season with them.

I'm not saying Mourinho's departure didn't have any effects on the team, but the players couldn't handle another season at extreme levels after giving their 110% in the prior one. In fact, that's why I think Mourinho left in the first place. He sniffed the inevitable deterioration and decided to leave as a winner.



Or maybe because the players didn't want Benitez? Yeah, remember those phone calls between Mourinho and the senators? Another aspect to take into consideration.



Klopp made it pretty clear that that season they were going to focus on the CL after coming from two consecutive league titles. So, that 30-point gap isn't such a shock.

And yes, this season they did struggle, but you yet fail to take into account the many, many injuries that plagued the team. Anyone who watches the Bundesliga can confirm this.



No, I don't think they do. Atletico's primary and only strength is the collective and discipline. They have very average players and play some boring and unattractive football, unlike Dortmund who have great players in every role and are a feast to watch. Plus Dortmund have been much more consistent than Atletico overall.

...so this proves me wrong? Ok...and breathe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[X-Offender]

...so this proves me wrong? Ok...and breathe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It tells you that you shouldn't treat someone's opinion which you disagree with as conjecture. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Danny]

It tells you that you shouldn't treat someone's opinion which you disagree with as conjecture. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Most opinion is conjecture. We base our views on our perceived facts, and use hyperbole, exaggeration, emotion and rhetoric to espouse them. Our opinions are caked in our own values - of course they're conjecture. Basic semantics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)