[kurtsimonw]

ya i'd say you've got the 2nd hardest group after england. maybe even the toughest.

I'd say they've got the hardest.

Yes Croatia beat us, but I honestly don't think they're better than us, these things happen. Ukraine came 4th in their group (Which involved the mighty Scotland (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ). Denmark and Sweden are good teams, twice as good as Ukraine.

[misha]

Yes Croatia beat us, but I honestly don't think they're better than us, these things happen. Ukraine came 4th in their group (Which involved the  mighty Scotland  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ). Denmark and Sweden are good teams, twice as good as Ukraine.

Why to disrespect other teams?

Ukraine had a bad compaign but still a strong team (reach the same level as England in the last WC). Denmark is twice as good? Ukraine beat them in the qualifying group for WC06 (Group that also had Turkey and Greece. Ukraine got through, Denmark didn't) and Denmark failed to reach euro as well. So how they are so much better?

Ukraine finished behind Scotland? didn't you just said that "those things happen" in connection of England failure? Mighty Scotland is constantly improving and gave a tough fight to Italy and France (in a stronger groupe than England had). Croatia beat you twice and proved that right now they are a better team. I bet you said the same things when England drew mighty Croatia, mighty Russia, mighty Israel and mighty Macedonia. You make conclusion over one compaign. If you don't think that Croatia and Russia are better because they qualifyed over England, so why judge the wrong way other teams?

This post has been edited by mishale: Nov 26 2007, 07:24 AM

[kurtsimonw]

Why to disrespect other teams?

Ukraine had a bad compaign but still a strong team (reach the same level as England in the last WC). Denmark is twice as good? Ukraine beat them in the qualifying group for WC06 (Group that also had Turkey and Greece. Ukraine got through, Denmark didn't) and Denmark failed to reach euro as well. So how they are so much better?

Ukraine finished behind Scotland? didn't you just said that "those things happen" in connection of England failure? Mighty Scotland is constantly improving and gave a tough fight to Italy and France (in a stronger groupe than England had).  Croatia beat you twice and proved that right now they are a better team. I bet you said the same things when England drew mighty Croatia, mighty Russia, mighty Israel and mighty Macedonia.  You make conclusion over one compaign. If you don't think that Croatia and Russia are better because they qualifyed over England, so why judge the wrong way other teams?

As we've both said 'these things happen'. Do you not think Croatia were fortunate to play England at the time they did? GK crisis, Beckham not match fit. Owen, Rooney, Terry, Ferdinand, Neville, Cole all out? Different circumstances will lead to different outcomes. Weird things happen in football, over two games we beat Russia and completely outplayed them, yet they went through, football is a funny game.

As for the Ukraine, haven't they qualified for just one competition since they became independant? I know you'll stick up for them because you like Kiev, but it's hardly a great record, Denmark have got a proven record at International level. As for Ukraine at the World Cup, they beat Tunisia and Saudi Arabia and needed penalties to beat Switzerland. The two 'big nations' they played, they lost by a total of 7-0. I just don't rate the Ukraine very highly, that's all, I like them because of Sheva, but I'm only saying what I think. If you disagree, fine.

[dst]

Only one team from each group goes through, right? It will be a great battle between England and Croatia!

[kurtsimonw]

Only one team from each group goes through, right? It will be a great battle between England and Croatia!

I think it works this way, not 100% sure though.

-9 group winners qualify straight into the World Cup.
-The runner-up with the most points will also qualify for the tournement.
-The other 8 runners-up will be paired off into 4 matches and played over two legs. The winners of each two-legged match will go through to the tournement.

[aLbErTo]

Hopefully, more of this please.  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Revenge!

good for u to be optimistic...you now have time to prepare for those games (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

England and Croatia again, revenge comes to mind..  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Hehehe,...no way! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I really cannot belive what Michael Owen said. With all respect, I fear his brain got injuried as well,.. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[misha]

As we've both said 'these things happen'. Do you not think Croatia were fortunate to play England at the time they did? GK crisis, Beckham not match fit. Owen, Rooney, Terry, Ferdinand, Neville, Cole all out? Different circumstances will lead to different outcomes. Weird things happen in football, over two games we beat Russia and completely outplayed them, yet they went through, football is a funny game.

As for the Ukraine, haven't they qualified for just one competition since they became independant? I know you'll stick up for them because you like Kiev, but it's hardly a great record, Denmark have got a proven record at International level. As for Ukraine at the World Cup, they beat Tunisia and Saudi Arabia and needed penalties to beat Switzerland. The two 'big nations' they played, they lost by a total of 7-0. I just don't rate the Ukraine very highly, that's all, I like them because of Sheva, but I'm only saying what I think. If you disagree, fine.

Croatia right now is a better team. They won in both home and away games. They are higher ranked (10) and proved why. GK crisis? Croatia don't have a world class keeper either (Pleticosa is playing in Russia). Injuries is not an excuse to that kinda performance at home (Israel with mostly their second team still beat Russia).

Are you checking history now? You was talking about the next world cup qualifiers. And recently Denmark failed in both wc and euro campaigns (in first one they lost both times to Ukraine). So in recent years they are failing, so how they are twice as good? Because of their International record? Nottingham Forest and Villa have a better international record than Chelsea.
Just so you know, the SU national team , in 70s and 80s, was mostly built from Ukrainian players (check the uero 88 ,when they took second place, line up). After the fall of SU, the best Ukrainian player detected/tempted to play for Russia, because FIFA declared (unrightful) that Russia will be SU successors, even though most ogf the points were due ukrainian players (because of good ties Russia had in FIFA). So Ukraine had to start completely from scratch(ranking and players). They were unlucky couple of times (finishing second in group and drawing Croatia and Germany in play off games), but recently the have a good team and qualifying to WC proved that. They haven't won vs tough teams? True, they lost to Spain and Italy , but England reached the same stage (1/4) and only won vs Paraguay,Trinidad & Tobago and Ecuador. So when you are saying that Denmark is twice better than Ukraine it's BS (recent years, judging by records or even check the rankings. And if you insist for some reason going way back so you are welcome to check strting from the 50s).

Yes, it's your opinion and it's fine. But you first post was arrogant (something that I hear from many (not all) England fans).

[kurtsimonw]

Yes, it's your opinion and it's fine. But you first post was arrogant (something that I hear from many (not all) England fans).

Did I use injuries as an excuse? No. All I said is they change things, which is true.

Arrogant? I don't believe Croatia are better than us, that's not arrogance, just an opinion. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Saying Denmark are twice as good as Ukraine is a figure of speach. I think they're alot better. That, again, is my opinion. If I was arrogant I'd be saying we're the best team in the World, I did not do that, because we aren't.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, because that's what you believe.

[Fillipo Simone]

Did I use injuries as an excuse? No. All I said is they change things, which is true.

Arrogant? I don't believe Croatia are better than us, that's not arrogance, just an opinion.  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Saying Denmark are twice as good as Ukraine is a figure of speach. I think they're alot better. That, again, is my opinion. If I was arrogant I'd be saying we're the best team in the World, I did not do that, because we aren't.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, because that's what you believe.

I don't know how to say this and not to cause any further discussion,
You can call it arrogance or not, but I would say that exactly that I don't believe Croatia are better than us attitude brings England many opponents and more importantly, costed England a place in the E08 finals. Loosing twice against a team; played 180 minutes conceeded 5 goals, never had a leading goal,..what do you need more? Theoretically,..yes, maybe with Owen it would have been different. With Gordon Banks for sure, but that's just demagogism and a waste of time. Croatia is better then England in 2007, and that's a fact.

[kurtsimonw]

Loosing twice against a team; played 180 minutes conceeded 5 goals, never had a leading goal,..what do you need more?.. Croatia is better then England in 2007, and that's a fact.

It is a fact, but it's also fact that Coventry are better than Man United, Villa are better than Chelsea, FYRO Macedonia are better than Croatia and Empoli are better than Milan. Even facts can be very misleading.

And facts are also very different to opinions. As I said before, I'm not using injuries as an excuse, but with Rooney, Terry, Owen, etc. I'd be very confident in playing you. But that's not what happened when we did play you and in that case you were better than us in this qualifying competition. All of this is my opinion, and that's all it is.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Nov 26 2007, 11:59 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

It is a fact, but it's also fact that Coventry are better than Man United, Villa are better than Chelsea, FYRO Macedonia are better than Croatia and Empoli are better than Milan. Even facts can be very misleading.

No, you are mixing up things.

It's just like Milan was (and probably still is) better then Manchester.

I'll have to say, you really mix up things. No, Macedonia is not better then Croatia. Look at the groups table! Look at the points collected! No, it's much more then this. At the end Milan will get above Empoli just like Man Utd. will get above Coventry.

And you know, England did loose twice. So, it really cannot be treated as a "lapsus" or a miracle that happens every now and then.
My advice is - if England approaches to the future clashes with Croatia with the we are better attitude they'll loose again.

[kurtsimonw]

My advice is - if England approaches to the future clashes with Croatia with the we are better attitude they'll loose again.

I wasn't mixing things up at all. How do you explain Russia not being able to beat Israel, but finishing above them? As I said, these things happen in football. Was it just two lucky results? I think not.

What makes you think they approached them what that attitude this time around?

Don't bring English people are arrogant into it either, everybody has the ability to be arrogant. You did say "We are better than England, fact." afterall.

But I respect you and your opinion, I'd rather not go on and on anymore. You beat us, home and away, you were the better team in bot games, you qualified. Congratulations for all of those, you deserve to be in the Euro's and we don't.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Nov 27 2007, 12:26 AM

[Fillipo Simone]

I wasn't mixing things up at all. How do you explain Russia not being able to beat Israel, but finishing above them? As I said, these things happen in football. Was it just two lucky results? I think not.

What makes you think they approached them what that attitude this time around?

Don't bring English people are arrogant into it either, everybody has the ability to be arrogant. You did say "We are better than England, fact." afterall.

But I respect you and your opinion, I'd rather not go on and on anymore. You beat us, home and away, you were the better team in bot games, you qualified. Congratulations for all of those, you deserve to be in the Euro's and we don't.

Exactly. Our NT had hard times, not so long ago, just cause they've become arrogant. You see, everybody has the ability to be arrogant, just like everybody has the ability not to be arrogant. I just want to help England and say, maybe it's better not to be arrogant from this position they are in right now. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Exactly. Our NT had hard times, not so long ago, just cause they've become arrogant. You see, everybody has the ability to be arrogant, just like everybody has the ability not to be arrogant. I just want to help England and say, maybe it's better not to be arrogant from this position they are in right now. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

That would be correct. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

You wait until we play France in February, if we beat them. We'll be considered the best team in the World again. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)