[han2503]

All discussion involving other European leagues here

Just to get things rolling, Pogba will apparently have to sit out Man U's first game due to yellow card accumulation in the Coppa Italia (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[X-Offender]

What?? How does that even work? They're two different leagues and two different competitions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[han2503]

What?? How does that even work? They're two different leagues and two different competitions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Have absolutely no clue, but the English FA said that the suspension has been transferred to England.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/0...r-uniteds-firs/

[han2503]

Why are United playing with Blind at the back? Goal was comical

[X-Offender]

He's always played as CB under Jose thus far.

[han2503]

He's always played as CB under Jose thus far.

Isn't it ridiculous that they spent a 100m on Pogba but failed to bring in proper CBs? Not to mention having Fellaini in midfield

Thought City were toying with them in the first half

[Jack Sparrow]

Fellaini was really good. He's really become critical for the team in that defensive mid role. It was the two wingers who were terrible. You could see the difference in the second half.

[han2503]

Fellaini was really good. He's really become critical for the team in that defensive mid role. It was the two wingers who were terrible. You could see the difference in the second half.

You thought Fellaini was really good? Really?

I thought he was just a parade of awkward limbs out there. One of the most unnatural players I've ever watched in my life.

Maybe by his standards he was good, and he wasn't the worst player out there for Man U today, but he certainly didn't help their cause either

Also on a scale of 1 to 10, how finished do you guys think Rooney is? Because I think he's surpassed that counter and moved into completely over the hill status. And it's not like he's really old or anything like that is he? How old is he now anyway, 30, 31? He shouldn't be this physically unfit

[Fillipo Simone]

Let's face it han, you have a problem with such players. Ambrosini, Motta, etc. I know you too well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[X-Offender]

Let's face it han, you have a problem with such players. Ambrosini, Motta, etc. I know you too well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Nah, Fellaini is just bad.

[Jack Sparrow]

He's been a starter under the last three coaches. Including one of the best coaches in the world. I guess they're all wrong.

[han2503]

Let's face it han, you have a problem with such players. Ambrosini, Motta, etc. I know you too well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

One of my all time favourite Milan players; Rino Gattuso. Hardly a slinky skilful player.

The style of player has nothing to do with why I don't rate certain players. I think Ambrosini, even in his best of times had major limitations as a player. Motta is cringe worthy for various reasons and Fellaini is just awful, awful, awful.

Just overall awkward, questionable footballing ability, low footballing IQ to go along with all that as well. Plus his face and hair just irritate the sh!t out of me so there

[han2503]

He's been a starter under the last three coaches. Including one of the best coaches in the world. I guess they're all wrong.

2 of them have already failed terribly while Man U have spent record sums... Not the best advertisement there Jack. And Mourinho is off to a rocky start as well. Getting outplayed like that is such a highly touted fixture is not something to write home about. I'm sure he will do well overall, but I don't think he'll win the title tbh

[Jack Sparrow]

I don't think you're watching enough Manchester United then han. Fellaini was their best player in the field. Unlike Pogba, Mkhitaryan or Lingaard who were so out of position. Most of the Man Utd fans have now turned in their opinion.

He's an unfashionable player I get it. But he's very effective in his role as a midfield destroyer plus a late runner. A step below Essien but very important in that squad.

[Fillipo Simone]

I don't think you're watching enough Manchester United then han. Fellaini was their best player in the field. Unlike Pogba, Mkhitaryan or Lingaard who were so out of position. Most of the Man Utd fans have now turned in their opinion.

He's an unfashionable player I get it. But he's very effective in his role as a midfield destroyer plus a late runner. A step below Essien but very important in that squad.

+1

[kurtsimonw]

2 of them have already failed terribly while Man U have spent record sums... Not the best advertisement there Jack. And Mourinho is off to a rocky start as well. Getting outplayed like that is such a highly touted fixture is not something to write home about. I'm sure he will do well overall, but I don't think he'll win the title tbh

I doubt he'll win the title. He took over a pretty bad team. People seem to focus a lot on the Pogba transfer and ignore the fact that Man City - who had a much superior squad to begin with - spent more than Man U this summer, even though Man U broke the transfer record.

As for Fellaini, if you compare reputation to ability, he's one of the most underrated players around. He's started the season on fire, winning the ball back a ridiculous amount.

[han2503]

I doubt he'll win the title. He took over a pretty bad team. People seem to focus a lot on the Pogba transfer and ignore the fact that Man City - who had a much superior squad to begin with - spent more than Man U this summer, even though Man U broke the transfer record.

As for Fellaini, if you compare reputation to ability, he's one of the most underrated players around. He's started the season on fire, winning the ball back a ridiculous amount.

Does simply winning the ball justify his overall presence on the pitch? I personally don't think so.

3-1 loss today as well. after the defeat to City and in the EL.

[kurtsimonw]

Does simply winning the ball justify his overall presence on the pitch? I personally don't think so.

I never said that. He happens to be exceptional at winning the ball back. He's also a very big threat in the box and allows Man U's midfield to put a physical stamp on the game.

I think Man U are still a year or 2 off being able to compete. Defensively they are a mess and they're a bit like Madrid of 4/5 years ago in that they have arguably the most overrated goalkeeper in the planet. Rashford/Martial are still not ready yet. Mata and Depay are awful.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Sep 18 2016, 02:28 PM

[Fishdoll]

Today's word is schadenfreude. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cookie.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

Today's word is schadenfreude. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cookie.gif)

What? I don't see where and how? Did something happen? Neymar to PSG?

[Fishdoll]

Neymar to PSG?

That would be it.

[Danny]

I'm not really sure how that's schadenfreude?

[Fishdoll]

I'm not really sure how that's schadenfreude?

It is if you're watching Barca twitter melt down.

[Jack Sparrow]

It is if you're watching Barca twitter melt down.

I saw a bunch of people act like it's totally justified. Neymar is poison and should move on. They will buy Veratti and Coutinho and some fullback etc etc.

Non-Barca fans are sticking up for Neymar saying he's being pushed out by Messi and Suarez and it's a Latin American racist thing etc. etc.

[Fishdoll]

I saw a bunch of people act like it's totally justified. Neymar is poison and should move on. They will buy Veratti and Coutinho and some fullback etc etc.

Non-Barca fans are sticking up for Neymar saying he's being pushed out by Messi and Suarez and it's a Latin American racist thing etc. etc.

There are also the 'Neymar is a traitor' folks, the 'Neymar only wants money' folks (not always the same group), and the 'now the Board will waste the money' folks.

Personally, I think money played a big part (Neymar and his father seem very fond of lots of $$), but I suspect there's also an element of being the star of the team out from Messi's shadow to it as well.

[Danny]

It is if you're watching Barca twitter melt down.

Ah, yes, I thought you meant on Neymar's part. Barca fans can go f*ck themselves as can their club.

I also find it hilarious they put in a 222M release clause and when a team actually legitimately activates it they grass them up to Uefa.

Disgusting football club, dislike them intensely.

[Danny]

Personally, I think money played a big part (Neymar and his father seem very fond of lots of $$), but I suspect there's also an element of being the star of the team out from Messi's shadow to it as well.

That's all there is. Neymar's ego expects to be the main man. He thought he'd be it by now. If an entire country idolises him as the modern Pele or Ronaldo, he expects to have earned it from his club's city by now.

But nowhere near it, and Messi stays as the power.

Neymar wants to be number one, and while it's an immature way to be, you could equally argue it's justified with the ability the guy has.

And it'll never happen at Barca.

[Danny]

I saw a bunch of people act like it's totally justified. Neymar is poison and should move on. They will buy Veratti and Coutinho and some fullback etc etc.

Non-Barca fans are sticking up for Neymar saying he's being pushed out by Messi and Suarez and it's a Latin American racist thing etc. etc.

He's not being pushed out. He's got to a point in his career where he expects to be the top dog. And with Messi ahead of him it won't happen at Barca, so he's going somewhere he will be the main man.

And PSG are flirting with being a European superpower - with the addition of Neymar they could make that final step.

But no one is ready for Milan's assault (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

COMIN' ATCHA!

[Danny]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40804584

Really good article. Nails my point.

[X-Offender]

I really don't believe any of that. It's just a matter of $$$, nothing more. If he really wants to be the best, PSG and the French league certainly ain't the way to do it.

[Danny]

I really don't believe any of that. It's just a matter of $$$, nothing more. If he really wants to be the best, PSG and the French league certainly ain't the way to do it.

Why not? Mpabbe managed it. He's now arguably a top 5 striker at age 18 and worth 150M.

Bit dismissive of the French league I'd say there!

[X-Offender]

Why not? Mpabbe managed it. He's now arguably a top 5 striker at age 18 and worth 150M.

Bit dismissive of the French league I'd say there!

He emerged in the French league, and he'll soon be gone cos nobody gives a sh*t about that league. PSG are the only exception because they got the $$$.

[Danny]

He emerged in the French league, and he'll soon be gone cos nobody gives a sh*t about that league. PSG are the only exception because they got the $$$.

You actually sound angry about all this.

[Fillipo Simone]

He emerged in the French league, and he'll soon be gone cos nobody gives a sh*t about that league. PSG are the only exception because they got the $$$.

?

[Jack Sparrow]

I really don't believe any of that. It's just a matter of $$$, nothing more. If he really wants to be the best, PSG and the French league certainly ain't the way to do it.

Nothing wrong with it being about the $$$, but it's probably the need to be THE STAR at a club as well. I think it's about time he had that shot.

PSG are in the Champions League and they've got a damn good squad. They do need to attract a proper coach though.

[Danny]

?

Beats me too Pippo.

[han2503]

Ah, yes, I thought you meant on Neymar's part. Barca fans can go f*ck themselves as can their club.

I also find it hilarious they put in a 222M release clause and when a team actually legitimately activates it they grass them up to Uefa.

Disgusting football club, dislike them intensely.

Agreed about Barca

I find it hilarious that they have no reservation when they themselves have been tapping up Verratti all summer, but once it's their player they're up in arms, shouting foul, FFP, UEFA, FIFA, courts, etc, etc

I don't like what the likes of PSG and City have done to the sport, but this serves Barca right. Finally getting a taste of their own medicine and man is it bitter!

As for the release clause, Spanish clubs are forced by law to include one in the contract. Barca have some ridiculous ones, which just a few months ago, no one though anyone would get anywhere near...

I really don't believe any of that. It's just a matter of $$$, nothing more. If he really wants to be the best, PSG and the French league certainly ain't the way to do it.

Agreed. He was still a star at Barca and could have made the move elsewhere. PSG and France were the cop out easy solution to get bucket loads

Why not? Mpabbe managed it. He's now arguably a top 5 striker at age 18 and worth 150M.

Bit dismissive of the French league I'd say there!

To say Mbappe is anywhere near Neymar's level is a stretch, the kid has had a break out half a year with Monaco. Sure he produced some really stellar stuff but come on!

He's not a top 5 striker in the world, not yet. This massive over-hype job that the media and fans have been doing for the last few months is ridiculous, especially when 90% of them have only watched him in a handful of CL games and don't follow him in France

Nothing wrong with it being about the $$$, but it's probably the need to be THE STAR at a club as well. I think it's about time he had that shot.

PSG are in the Champions League and they've got a damn good squad. They do need to attract a proper coach though.

He's a star at Barca already. He's loved (or was) by the fans. Messi is 30, Neymar is still young. And had he wanted to really be a STAR he would have chosen another club. He's going to France where he'll be forgotten for the majority of the season by the majority of football watchers as no one really follows PSG avidly in the French league unless they're PSG or League 1 fans to begin with. The amount of coverage he had at Barca will drop significantly now. So how is this not a move for the moula again?

[Danny]

Wow, the dismissing here of the French ligue is obtuse!

[X-Offender]

You actually sound angry about all this.

How so?

?

What's your question?

[han2503]

Wow, the dismissing here of the French ligue is obtuse!

Are you denying that it is a second rate league that has about 25% the amount of viewership the EPL/La Liga do?

[Danny]

Are you denying that it is a second rate league that has about 25% the amount of viewership the EPL/La Liga do?

I'm denying it's a second rate league, yes. I don't think Mbappe is a worse player for not having the same viewers he would in Spain.

Out of interest, is Serie A a second rate league?

[X-Offender]

Everyone and their grandmas know the French league is a joke. Just ask yourself: when was the last time a French club won a European competition? For all of the 00s it was dominated by Lyon who made zero impact in Europe, then PSG came with the big bucks and established a new hegemony yet I don't think they've ever passed the quarter-finals. In-between you have the varios Marseille, Auxerre, Lille, Monaco etc. would have one good season in a decade.

To compare it to Spain, England, Italy and even Germany is ridiculous. Second-rate league indeed.

[Danny]

Everyone and their grandmas know the French league is a joke. Just ask yourself: when was the last time a French club won a European competition? For all of the 00s it was dominated by Lyon who made zero impact in Europe, then PSG came with the big bucks and established a new hegemony yet I don't think they've ever passed the quarter-finals. In-between you have the varios Marseille, Auxerre, Lille, Monaco etc. would have one good season in a decade.

To compare it to Spain, England, Italy and even Germany is ridiculous. Second-rate league indeed.

Yup, you're definitely angry.

[Danny]

How so?

The tone in your posts the past week or so is aggressive and spiteful.

[Fillipo Simone]

Agreed. He was still a star at Barca and could have made the move elsewhere. PSG and France were the cop out easy solution to get bucket loads

(...)
He's a star at Barca already. He's loved (or was) by the fans. Messi is 30, Neymar is still young. And had he wanted to really be a STAR he would have chosen another club. He's going to France where he'll be forgotten for the majority of the season by the majority of football watchers as no one really follows PSG avidly in the French league unless they're PSG or League 1 fans to begin with. The amount of coverage he had at Barca will drop significantly now. So how is this not a move for the moula again?

I think you're looking things the wrong way man. Every move out of Barcelona can be considered a move fore the moula. Moving to the EPL would be even more stupid, because Neymar isn't the type of player that would suit English football and he'd soon end up butchered by the various Stones' of the league.

However, at Barcelona he achieved everything. Won CL, won La Liga, everything. He would have always been compared to Messi who's the real boss there and never became the real star, always in a shadow.

A move to PSG makes sense. Teams like Monaco, Nice, even Marseille and Lyon show some interesting competitive signs. Saying that no one will care now that he's gone to a league "that no one watches" other then "league fans" is very simplistic. He'll be the hero of Paris, he can build a new legacy there and take a serious shot at the Champions league, something they really want (and tried) for years now. If he achieves that, he'll be a bigger star than he ever would have been at Barcelona.

What's your question?

I agree with Danny here, you seem to be somehow very dismissive towards the French league and you underestimate them.

Are you denying that it is a second rate league that has about 25% the amount of viewership the EPL/La Liga do?

Second rate league? Man, there's no question, the French league is a top league. That being said, the money lies in the English and Spanish league and will do so for some of the coming years. Does two are, what you probably call, "first tier leagues". But you got spoiled by those standards.

[X-Offender]

The tone in your posts the past week or so is aggressive and spiteful.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thank you for noticing but I assure you it's just a misinterpretation from your part.

As for the current matter, just because I'm calling the French league sh*t and a joke doesn't mean I'm angry. It's my personal opinion, whether you like it or not.

[Fillipo Simone]

Everyone and their grandmas know the French league is a joke. Just ask yourself: when was the last time a French club won a European competition? For all of the 00s it was dominated by Lyon who made zero impact in Europe, then PSG came with the big bucks and established a new hegemony yet I don't think they've ever passed the quarter-finals. In-between you have the varios Marseille, Auxerre, Lille, Monaco etc. would have one good season in a decade.

To compare it to Spain, England, Italy and even Germany is ridiculous. Second-rate league indeed.

Firstly, we're not in the 00's anymore. Now the league is much more talented/talent-filled and competitive.

Secondly, take Germany. Just take out Lyon and insert Bayern. By the same arrogant logic you can say that the various Dortmund, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, etc. teams are "in-betweeners". Because really, what's all that fuss about Dortmund? Before Klopp they were a bankrupt club that managed to do what? One title in a decade. But yeah, they won the CL in the 90s, right? Few years after...Marseille.

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

[X-Offender]

Firstly, we're not in the 00's anymore. Now the league is much more talented/talent-filled and competitive.

Secondly, take Germany. Just take out Lyon and insert Bayern. By the same arrogant logic you can say that the various Dortmund, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, etc. teams are "in-betweeners". Because really, what's all that fuss about Dortmund? Before Klopp they were a bankrupt club that managed to do what? One title in a decade. But yeah, they won the CL in the 90s, right? Few years after...Marseille.

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

You failed to answer my question. Whether we're in the 00s or 10s matters little when the success of French clubs in Europe is almost non-existent. And it's not fair to compare the French league to the German one if you want to prove that it's not a second rate league. Compare it to England, Spain and Italy. Italy had 3 different clubs reach the final in the last 10 years, winning it twice. Engalnd and Spain likewise. This is what entails being a top league.

And even if you wanna use the Germam league as a comparison, Bayern reaches the semi-finals on a regular basis and has managed to win, Dortmund reached a final as well. This only in the last 5 years. Can we say the same about PSG and Monaco? Me thinks not.

[han2503]

I'm denying it's a second rate league, yes. I don't think Mbappe is a worse player for not having the same viewers he would in Spain.

Out of interest, is Serie A a second rate league?

Then why is it only a matter of time before he trades up and goes to Spain/England?

It's not just about viewership, that came out wrong on my part because I was trying to emphasise how Neymar's star power will be wasted in the French league.

What I think makes Ligue 1 a 2nd rate league is that the quality jump between it and England/Spain - Germany/Italy. Sure Monaco were a revelation this season, but they already lost practically half of their team and it will continue this summer and next. Here's a question, would you rather watch PSG vs Auxerre or Napoli vs Genoa for example? how many people do you know that follow Ligue 1 instead of any of the other mentioned leagues? Do you really think Neymar will drum up enough interest that people will avidly watch an entire season of PSG romping the league?

I think Serie A, like the Bundesliga is in this weird grey area hovering between being a 1st rate and 2nd rate. I think there's definitely much more intrigue/competition/interesting match ups in Italy and Germany compared to France. The problem with both leagues compared to EPL/La Liga is that Bayern and Juve are currently monopolizing their respective leagues so that gap is what keeps both from being in with the EPL/La Liga as 1st rate leagues

Everyone and their grandmas know the French league is a joke. Just ask yourself: when was the last time a French club won a European competition? For all of the 00s it was dominated by Lyon who made zero impact in Europe, then PSG came with the big bucks and established a new hegemony yet I don't think they've ever passed the quarter-finals. In-between you have the varios Marseille, Auxerre, Lille, Monaco etc. would have one good season in a decade.

To compare it to Spain, England, Italy and even Germany is ridiculous. Second-rate league indeed.

Agreed.

I think you're looking things the wrong way man. Every move out of Barcelona can be considered a move fore the moula. Moving to the EPL would be even more stupid, because Neymar isn't the type of player that would suit English football and he'd soon end up butchered by the various Stones' of the league.

However, at Barcelona he achieved everything. Won CL, won La Liga, everything. He would have always been compared to Messi who's the real boss there and never became the real star, always in a shadow.

A move to PSG makes sense. Teams like Monaco, Nice, even Marseille and Lyon show some interesting competitive signs. Saying that no one will care now that he's gone to a league "that no one watches" other then "league fans" is very simplistic. He'll be the hero of Paris, he can build a new legacy there and take a serious shot at the Champions league, something they really want (and tried) for years now. If he achieves that, he'll be a bigger star than he ever would have been at Barcelona.


I agree with Danny here, you seem to be somehow very dismissive towards the French league and you underestimate them.


Second rate league? Man, there's no question, the French league is a top league. That being said, the money lies in the English and Spanish league and will do so for some of the coming years. Does two are, what you probably call, "first tier leagues". But you got spoiled by those standards.

You make good points about Neymar maybe wanting another challenge after winning all he could with Barca, but I disagree about PSG being the correct one. it is simply a step down for him career wise. And sure at Barca he could only make a sideways move, but that's the thing with moving to a big club at such a young age.

Footballing wise and commercially it's a step back for him, no two ways about it.

How is Ligue 1 a top league? It's not just about money, the footballing aspect also is a big reason why it's not a top league.

Firstly, we're not in the 00's anymore. Now the league is much more talented/talent-filled and competitive.

Secondly, take Germany. Just take out Lyon and insert Bayern. By the same arrogant logic you can say that the various Dortmund, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, etc. teams are "in-betweeners". Because really, what's all that fuss about Dortmund? Before Klopp they were a bankrupt club that managed to do what? One title in a decade. But yeah, they won the CL in the 90s, right? Few years after...Marseille.

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

Like I said to Danny, there are distinct qualities which make Bundesliga and Serie A much better leagues than Ligue 1.

[Fillipo Simone]

Look guys, this discussion is pretty simple. You say La Liga and the EPL are top tier leagues. Agreed. But that doesn't automatically make every other league trash and sh@t. It's like saying Pepsi Cola is junk because their revenue and worldwide network isn't half as profitable as Coca Cola. Now, I see, the French league isn't Pepsi Cola either in this story, maybe Dr. Pepper's or who knows what.

But unleashing all the wrath of this world towards PSG and the French league won't help. And simply stating the obvious - repeating La Liga and EPL are top notch whereas others are steps back isn't helping the situation football is in. It's been long since the game turned into a Barcelona - Madrid festival with Bayern being the third wheel.

@han

I understand how you can say that Bundesliga might be a grey zone league simply out of economic perspective. But all other arguments fall into the same category - sentiment. You say the Bundesliga has far more attractive matches going on? In what terms? All up to discussion and all very subjective points. One can say the German clubs have better players and more expensive one, the other that the French have historically more significant teams, derbies and more rough talent.

You say Neymar joining PSG was a mistake. So, what would be a good choice to you? Arsenal? Citeh? Real Madrid?

[Fillipo Simone]

You failed to answer my question. Whether we're in the 00s or 10s matters little when the success of French clubs in Europe is almost non-existent. And it's not fair to compare the French league to the German one if you want to prove that it's not a second rate league. Compare it to England, Spain and Italy. Italy had 3 different clubs reach the final in the last 10 years, winning it twice. Engalnd and Spain likewise. This is what entails being a top league.

And even if you wanna use the Germam league as a comparison, Bayern reaches the semi-finals on a regular basis and has managed to win, Dortmund reached a final as well. This only in the last 5 years. Can we say the same about PSG and Monaco? Me thinks not.

What's your question? Is Ligue 1 a top-tier league? Yes and no. If you take some factors in consideration only EPL and La Liga turn out to be top tier leagues at the moment. But if you take other aspects like history/tradition into consideration, the French league is up there with Serie A and the Buli at the top.

We can't say the same for any other club in the world. That's why Neymar's move makes perfect sense. It's a good push into a direction that makes "balance of power" slightly more possible.

[han2503]

Official: Neymar has bought out his Barca contract

[han2503]

Look guys, this discussion is pretty simple. You say La Liga and the EPL are top tier leagues. Agreed. But that doesn't automatically make every other league trash and sh@t. It's like saying Pepsi Cola is junk because their revenue and worldwide network isn't half as profitable as Coca Cola. Now, I see, the French league isn't Pepsi Cola either in this story, maybe Dr. Pepper's or who knows what.

But unleashing all the wrath of this world towards PSG and the French league won't help. And simply stating the obvious - repeating La Liga and EPL are top notch whereas others are steps back isn't helping the situation football is in. It's been long since the game turned into a Barcelona - Madrid festival with Bayern being the third wheel.

@han

I understand how you can say that Bundesliga might be a grey zone league simply out of economic perspective. But all other arguments fall into the same category - sentiment. You say the Bundesliga has far more attractive matches going on? In what terms? All up to discussion and all very subjective points. One can say the German clubs have better players and more expensive one, the other that the French have historically more significant teams, derbies and more rough talent.

You say Neymar joining PSG was a mistake. So, what would be a good choice to you? Arsenal? Citeh? Real Madrid?

Well let's put it this way

If La Liga/EPLA are the Ferrari or the footballing world for me Italy Germany are the Mercedes Benz while the French league is just a tricked out BMW 3 Series.

Ligue 1 has always been a feeder league to the others. That's what makes it a step down. Neymar is mostly looking at the financial gains he'll be getting but overall this is a step back for him as he won't get the exposure I'm sure he craves in France.

For me, I'd rather watch Dortmund v Wolfsburg than Monaco v Lille and I'm sure many have the same sentiment considering the viewership of the 2 leagues

[Fishdoll]

Well, I'd rather watch Dortmund v Schalke, but yeah. I enjoy the Bundesliga (second to Serie A for me in terms of personal enjoyment). I tend to ignore the English league and will watch Liga games that don't include teams with 'Madrid' or 'Barcelona' in their names.

Meanwhile, during the game just now, PSG announced Neymar.

[Danny]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thank you for noticing but I assure you it's just a misinterpretation from your part.

As for the current matter, just because I'm calling the French league sh*t and a joke doesn't mean I'm angry. It's my personal opinion, whether you like it or not.

'Sh*t and a joke'.

Wow. You're one of the most reasonable guys on here but this is one occasion where such qualities are curiously absent.

But we move on.

[Danny]

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

It's reminding me of the (rightful) arrogance of the 90s and 00s Serie A fans had about all other leagues because it was clearly the best.

Now it isn't, but the opinion of other leagues seems to remain. Odd.

[Danny]

You failed to answer my question. Whether we're in the 00s or 10s matters little when the success of French clubs in Europe is almost non-existent.

It took a miracle goal in the final second to put PSG out last season in the last 16, and a robust Juve defence to deny Monaco in the semi final.

Can't quite see how all this qualifies as a joke when your superior EPL didn't even do as well as this but each to their own

[X-Offender]

What's your question? Is Ligue 1 a top-tier league? Yes and no. If you take some factors in consideration only EPL and La Liga turn out to be top tier leagues at the moment. But if you take other aspects like history/tradition into consideration, the French league is up there with Serie A and the Buli at the top.

We can't say the same for any other club in the world. That's why Neymar's move makes perfect sense. It's a good push into a direction that makes "balance of power" slightly more possible.

My question was: when was the last time a French side won a European competition? Can you please answer that for me?

'Sh*t and a joke'.

Wow. You're one of the most reasonable guys on here but this is one occasion where such qualities are curiously absent.

But we move on.

Oh dear me. How does me saying that the French league is sh*t and a joke demonstrate that I am angry? It's an OPINION, Danny. Your logic is not very sound.

It took a miracle goal in the final second to put PSG out last season in the last 16, and a robust Juve defence to deny Monaco in the semi final.

Can't quite see how all this qualifies as a joke when your superior EPL didn't even do as well as this but each to their own

Did PSG and Monaco win the Champions League? No. That's all that matters. Don't make me repeat the question I've been making to Fillipo over and over again.

ManU won the Europa League in the meanwhile...

[Danny]

I'd rather Milan get to the UCL last 16 than win the UEL. UEL is worthless.

[Fillipo Simone]

My question was: when was the last time a French side won a European competition? Can you please answer that for me?




Oh dear me. How does me saying that the French league is sh*t and a joke demonstrate that I am angry? It's an OPINION, Danny. Your logic is not very sound.



Did PSG and Monaco win the Champions League? No. That's all that matters. Don't make me repeat the question I've been making to Fillipo over and over again.

ManU won the Europa League in the meanwhile...

Man, I don't get your tone here really. You say over and over again you've asked me something we already know. But the truth is, even if the last CL win by a French team was in 1899, I'd still be saying the Ligue 1 is a good league nowadays.

Sure, winning silverware is a important criteria. You can argue that the Spaniards are better then the English in that department, Italy better then Germany etc. But is it, like you say, "all that matters"? I don't think so. And you're just making excuses here X-O, I'm sorry but you are. You obviously jumped the gun and used words like "shite" and "joke", vastly underrating the league we were talking about. Sure, it's your opinion and you can put it in words you like, but you ain't usually the one who jumps in and names things in that manner.

[Fillipo Simone]

Well let's put it this way

If La Liga/EPLA are the Ferrari or the footballing world for me Italy Germany are the Mercedes Benz while the French league is just a tricked out BMW 3 Series.

Ligue 1 has always been a feeder league to the others. That's what makes it a step down. Neymar is mostly looking at the financial gains he'll be getting but overall this is a step back for him as he won't get the exposure I'm sure he craves in France.

For me, I'd rather watch Dortmund v Wolfsburg than Monaco v Lille and I'm sure many have the same sentiment considering the viewership of the 2 leagues

Mostly we agree. But you say Ligue 1 has been a feeeder league. Sure, up from the 1990s, yes. But Serie A is a feeder league as well nowadays, with the exception of Juventus and the lucky thing that Italians usually unlikely move abroad. Hell, even BuLi is mostly a feeder league if you don't make it to Bayern.

But you didn't answer my question, who do you think Neymar should have picked before PSG? Haven't you seen the sum they payed? So, who qualifies to do the same: Citeh, maybe United and who else? Why would he prefer any English club to PSG really? I honestly think that in the next 2-3 years PSG has a chance of getting the CL, whereas I don't exactly see that happening to City or United - apart from some miraculous season.

[Danny]

Ligue 1 stopped being a feeder league when Silva and Ibra went there.

I'd argue even Bayern is a feeder club. When was the last time Bayern made a marquee signing from outwith the Bundesliga? The only one to come close is a surplus Rodriguez from Real and that's only a loan!

When it comes to non-feeder, only the EPL and Spain's top two really qualify as desired destinations. EPL's standard is cr*p but it has the money and the fake reputation. And Barca and Real remain the absolute pinnacle of football whether we like it or not.

My 11 year old nephew is obsessed with them both despite being raised a Rangers fan. Those two are where all players want to go.

Not Milan. Not Juve. Not PSG. Not Man Utd. Not Bayern. But Barca and Real.

[Jack Sparrow]

Yes. There is a more or less glorified atmosphere there. Interesting you brought up Barca, I honestly believe that with the departure of Neymar, they've got about 2 years left with the Messi halo still there to bring in players who could keep them at the same level.

Otherwise I think Barca are looking at a collapse and going back to the pre-Rijkaard levels.

[Fillipo Simone]

Hopefully. But with the kind of money they possess, they won't be coming near to that pre-Rijkaard period.

[Danny]

Hopefully. But with the kind of money they possess, they won't be coming near to that pre-Rijkaard period.

Utd have more and are worse.

[Jack Sparrow]

Utd have more and are worse.

United just did no planning for a post-Alex era. Maybe SAF himself was responsible wanting to be the only king on the throne or whatever. In the end, perhaps his heart melted for a fellow Scot who had no business managing a club with the ambitions of United.

[Danny]

United just did no planning for a post-Alex era. Maybe SAF himself was responsible wanting to be the only king on the throne or whatever. In the end, perhaps his heart melted for a fellow Scot who had no business managing a club with the ambitions of United.

You're very argumentative today!

[Fishdoll]

Well, Utd still haven't really replaced Cristiano Ronaldo. They'd started selling off the family jewels before that. Sure, they have loads of $$$ hut their management has no long term plans and they've badly overpaid for some guys (Pogba). I haven't seen anything cohesive there from a sporting perspective since Ferguson retired.

Ditto fwiw for Barca since Laporta left. (Plus the Catalonian martyr complex)

[Danny]

Well, Milan still haven't really replaced Ibra/Pirlo/Cafu. They'd started selling off the family jewels before that. Sure, they have loads of $$$ hut their management has no long term plans and they've badly overpaid for some guys (Silva). I haven't seen anything cohesive there from a sporting perspective since Berlusconi shipped the entire team out.

[Jack Sparrow]

Lol. Well yeah, but at least Milan can claim they sold the family jewels coz they had no food to put on the table. What Utd's excuse. And surely Pogba vs Silva is a few magnitudes of difference. Granted I think it was Juve who got the worse end of the stick than Utd in the Pogba deal. That just makes me happy. :-D

[Danny]

Lol. Well yeah, but at least Milan can claim they sold the family jewels coz they had no food to put on the table. What Utd's excuse. And surely Pogba vs Silva is a few magnitudes of difference. Granted I think it was Juve who got the worse end of the stick than Utd in the Pogba deal. That just makes me happy. :-D

They got 90M for an overrated pile of shite! I'd take that!

[Jack Sparrow]

They got 90M for an overrated pile of shite! I'd take that!

No they didn't!! Raiola took a big chunk of it into his own pocket. They didn't really make more than 70 in the end I think. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[d'Arc.LP]

No they didn't!! Raiola took a big chunk of it into his own pocket. They didn't really make more than 70 in the end I think. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

The transfer was 105m, Raiola took 15-20m , which leaves Juve with 85-90m. Now compare that with 64m we got for Kaka (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[han2503]

The transfer was 105m, Raiola took 15-20m , which leaves Juve with 85-90m. Now compare that with 64m we got for Kaka (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Actually Juve got around 70m as confirmed by Moratta

Juve might have made huge profits on him but they got played by Raiola in the end

As for Ligue 1, Danny, I just noticed your comment about the league not being a feeder league since PSG bought Ibra. 1 club being bought out by Qatari oil money does not change the quality of the league in fact it made is far less competitive.

Fact is, all clubs in the league end up selling their best players, either to PSG or abroad. That's why it's a feeder league and has been for as long as I can remember. Look at Monaco this summer. They had a break out year with all of their young talent showing great potential and they've basically been dismantled in a couple of months. And they supposedly have rich owners as well.

@ Fillipo, I think Neymar should have stayed where he was. Messi is not getting any younger and his time to shine would have come sooner rather than later. EPL would have been a sideways step, but going to a club like United and resurrecting them would have always been a huge opportunity for him to reach Messi/Ronaldo levels in the coming years

[Danny]

Uhhhh Monaco just won the title. Och you and X have a chip on your shoulders about Ligue 1 and you won't hear otherwise.

So I will move on!

[han2503]

Uhhhh Monaco just won the title. Och you and X have a chip on your shoulders about Ligue 1 and you won't hear otherwise.

So I will move on!

Did I deny that Monaco won the league? They were great last season no doubt about that, but look what happened after. They've sold practically all their best players, so even the French champions, unless they can sustain wages like PSG, can't keep their squad intact. Simply because players would rather make the move to England/Spain/Italy/Germany

And why does it have to be a chip on my shoulder? Can't I just not rate Ligue 1 simply because I think it's not as good as other European leagues? Do you have a chip on your shoulder about Pogba? Did he do something specific to you? Or are you well within your right to not rate him as a player simply because you don't see what the fuss is about?

[Fillipo Simone]

Sorry, this will easily sound like a provocation but - when you say other European leagues in plural, you mean - England, Spain, Germany and Italy, right?

[han2503]

Sorry, this will easily sound like a provocation but - when you say other European leagues in plural, you mean - England, Spain, Germany and Italy, right?

Well why would that be a provocation? It's obvious I was referring to those and that's why you also easily came to that conclusion, because I feel like it's common knowledge that those leagues are better than the French league

Look at Monaco, the team they had last season is basically dismantled completely, Mbappe most likely going to PSG along with Fabinho. The gap is about to become light-years apart now from the rest of the league, while they'll still struggle as a collective in the CL

[Danny]

Well why would that be a provocation? It's obvious I was referring to those and that's why you also easily came to that conclusion, because I feel like it's common knowledge that those leagues are better than the French league

Look at Monaco, the team they had last season is basically dismantled completely, Mbappe most likely going to PSG along with Fabinho. The gap is about to become light-years apart now from the rest of the league, while they'll still struggle as a collective in the CL

Yeah because losing Rodriguez destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Contrao destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Love destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Martial destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Berbatov destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Kondogbia destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Carasco destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing R Carvalho destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing M Carvalho destroyed Monaco (!)

'yeah but...'

This post has been edited by Danny: Aug 13 2017, 12:47 PM

[Danny]

Conte's Chelsea wheels have already come off.

They signed no one they wanted and lost at home to Burnley opening day of the season on top of a shitey pre-season.

If they'd actually done good work in the window they'd be cementing their place as best in England.

But they did what we did in 2011 after winning the title. Hee haw.

English football is getting worse. Arsenal pushed all the way by Leicester, Man Utd unconvincing in the window so far, City also not doing great in the window although at least they won, Liverpool look diabolical.

Only Spurs seem to be keeping their heads above water although I guess how high will emerge today.

[Danny]

What's that? Alexis Sanchez going to Ligue 1 you say?

'yeah but...'

[han2503]

Conte's Chelsea wheels have already come off.

They signed no one they wanted and lost at home to Burnley opening day of the season on top of a shitey pre-season.

If they'd actually done good work in the window they'd be cementing their place as best in England.

But they did what we did in 2011 after winning the title. Hee haw.

English football is getting worse. Arsenal pushed all the way by Leicester, Man Utd unconvincing in the window so far, City also not doing great in the window although at least they won, Liverpool look diabolical.

Only Spurs seem to be keeping their heads above water although I guess how high will emerge today.

1 qame hardly spells the end for Conte, he's the best coach in that league imo and he'll make it work.

Man U looking good today btw.

What's that? Alexis Sanchez going to Ligue 1 you say?

'yeah but...'

Yeah, for the cash, the only thing he seems to be chasing now. He could have gone to Bayern but his demands were too much, his last option is PSG as they're the only club willing to meet his 500k a week request.

As said before, no one is denying that PSG are a good team, they have world class players sure, but the majority of them were lured there for a single reason only, the money. They apparently offered Donna 13m a year. That says it all. No other club would offer an 18 yea old 13m a year. PSG bought their way to the top, but that doesn't make the league great. In fact the league is even more boring nowadays compared to when Lyon were the top dogs, at least they achieved their success in a more organic way.

[han2503]

Yeah because losing Rodriguez destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Contrao destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Love destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Martial destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Berbatov destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Kondogbia destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing Carasco destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing R Carvalho destroyed Monaco (!)

Yeah because losing M Carvalho destroyed Monaco (!)

'yeah but...'

Don't get the point of this

Monaco reached a peak last season, now they're selling their best players same as every other club in Ligue 1 bar PSG

[Danny]

They got BETTER after they lost their best players, Han.

[Danny]

1 qame hardly spells the end for Conte, he's the best coach in that league imo and he'll make it work.

Nope, for me it's done now. Tone was set pre-season and it's continued.

Yeah, for the cash, the only thing he seems to be chasing now. He could have gone to Bayern but his demands were too much, his last option is PSG as they're the only club willing to meet his 500k a week request.

As said before, no one is denying that PSG are a good team, they have world class players sure, but the majority of them were lured there for a single reason only, the money. They apparently offered Donna 13m a year. That says it all. No other club would offer an 18 yea old 13m a year.

Didn't City offer Donna 12M? Didn't Real offer Mbappe nearly 10M?

PSG bought their way to the top, but that doesn't make the league great. In fact the league is even more boring nowadays compared to when Lyon were the top dogs, at least they achieved their success in a more organic way.

Wow, your ligue 1 knowledge stinks. No offence. If you knew anything about Lyon you'd know it was anything but organic.

Actually, no, I said before I was done on this topic and it's p*ssing into the wind. You can have all the last words you like, I ain't chatting about this again.

This post has been edited by Danny: Aug 13 2017, 09:33 PM

[Danny]

Man U looking good today btw.

Against a woeful West Ham! At home! I'd peg Bilic's men as relegation candidates.

[Fillipo Simone]

Nope, for me it's done now. Tone was set pre-season and it's continued.

Really? Even though he had several key players like Hazard missing and Cahill got himself a early red? Well, I'll be waiting still. Lot's of room for improvement, surely.

[Danny]

Really? Even though he had several key players like Hazard missing and Cahill got himself a early red? Well, I'll be waiting still. Lot's of room for improvement, surely.

He willfully benched one of his key players, ditched another (Costa) and honestly Hazard aside there was no one else missing of enough gravity that the defending champions can say they were justified in losing at home to Burnley, who were fourth bottom last season if I'm not in error?

They had an awful pre-season and it's continued. You say room for improvement but maybe they've already peaked and they're on the slide, Jose style.

The only top five team I'm fairly convinced by remains Spurs. Best team in that division over the past two years. Hate their fans though.

[Fishdoll]

So this weekend I was playing around with translating Italian renaissance embroidery patterns into a sweater design. I had the English league games on in the background and admittedly wasn't paying close attention. But....good lord, is the defending always that appalling in that league?

[han2503]

They got BETTER after they lost their best players, Han.

They've been losing their best players for years now aside from that 1 season when they got new ownership. Then he had divorce drama and started to sell again. Last season was a flash in the pan for them. They didn't build up gradually to it. I can't remember them having such a great season is recent history

Nope, for me it's done now. Tone was set pre-season and it's continued.

Your finality and rash judgment are a real mystery to me Danny. There's obvious tension at Cheslea, not denying that, but Conte is one man I'd bet on to pull through it. He went through similar tensions at Juve and with the NT, yet he was successful with both.

Chelsea played with 10 men for more than an hour. That plays into it, obviously they've got things to work on as they didn't look good before the red card either, but to completely dismiss them after an off day is ridiculous

Plenty of teams have bad pre-seasons btw. Carlo's teams for example always have a bad pre-season, yet they generally do the job when it matters

Didn't City offer Donna 12M? Didn't Real offer Mbappe nearly 10M?

Sky confirmed yesterday that PSG offer him 13m a year, which basically means he'd be earning twice what he does with us. Don't know about City, I don't think that was ever concrete, Pep wanted a ball playing keeper and Donna is hardly that

Wow, your ligue 1 knowledge stinks. No offence. If you knew anything about Lyon you'd know it was anything but organic.

Actually, no, I said before I was done on this topic and it's p*ssing into the wind. You can have all the last words you like, I ain't chatting about this again.

When did Lyon spend nearly spend a billion dollars in players? They had a great scouting system, and sure they bullied the other French sides, as generally happens when there is a top dog, but they rarely bought finished products, unlike PSG

Also what is up with you continually cutting off good discussions. We're discussing a footballing topic in a civil manner, why the need to have the last word and peace out? And you do this constantly with practically every topic we disagree upon.

Can't we just continue the discussion in the civilised manner we were carrying on in?

Against a woeful West Ham! At home! I'd peg Bilic's men as relegation candidates.

Last season they were awful, even against the relegation sides. They played well yesterday, it doesn't matter who their opponents were, at least they showed flowing cohesive football which is something I haven't seen from United since the Ferguson days

He willfully benched one of his key players, ditched another (Costa) and honestly Hazard aside there was no one else missing of enough gravity that the defending champions can say they were justified in losing at home to Burnley, who were fourth bottom last season if I'm not in error?

They had an awful pre-season and it's continued. You say room for improvement but maybe they've already peaked and they're on the slide, Jose style.

The only top five team I'm fairly convinced by remains Spurs. Best team in that division over the past two years. Hate their fans though.

Conte is a character no doubt about that. If you get on his bad side he won't stand for it. Juve were so great under him because he drilled them like robots, and that drilling continues to show it's fruits even to this day. Some players have trouble with that kind of coaching style, no doubt about that, but I believe he'll do well. We'll see if he can win the league again, I think he has the team to do it

So this weekend I was playing around with translating Italian renaissance embroidery patterns into a sweater design. I had the English league games on in the background and admittedly wasn't paying close attention. But....good lord, is the defending always that appalling in that league?

Yeah, week one was a terrible advert for defending. But I generally find that the art of defending is just taking a massive hit with each new season. We're seeing worse defending, the game is tilted to an attacking style anyway, so it's gotten to the point of teams outscoring each other

[Danny]

Because I'm too old to get embroiled in pointless arguments (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My principle is to exchange views, and if everyone disagrees, leave. No one is going to change their mind.

Peace, my friend.

[han2503]

Morata has been really awful today.

Also, anyone know why Spurs are playing in Wembley?

[CrazyMilanFan]

White hart lane demloshied

[X-Offender]

They will play every game this season at Wembley.

[Danny]

Morata has been really awful today.

Wanted to watch but fell asleep instead. Didn't think Chelsea was the right move for him.

[han2503]

Wanted to watch but fell asleep instead. Didn't think Chelsea was the right move for him.

Don't think EPL in general was the right move for him. But alas

[Fillipo Simone]

We'll see. Give him time to adapt. Before the Spurs game he did very well in his debut.

[Danny]

Slightly comical. Ibra signs for Utd again - but won't be available till January.

I mean ffs. He's being paid for getting fit. I'd accept them signing him in January, he is quality however old - but now?!

Mourinho really has lost the plot. 90M for Lukaku and now this?

Of course, if Utd keep winning I suppose he feels vindicated.

[han2503]

Slightly comical. Ibra signs for Utd again - but won't be available till January.

I mean ffs. He's being paid for getting fit. I'd accept them signing him in January, he is quality however old - but now?!

Mourinho really has lost the plot. 90M for Lukaku and now this?

Of course, if Utd keep winning I suppose he feels vindicated.

He's reportedly lowered his wages

And have you seen that vid of him kickboxing? The man is a machine, would have loved to have him with us.

[X-Offender]

Barça have apparently signed Dembele from Dortmund for 150M.

We're seriously shifting to insanity here. That much money for someone who's yet to prove all his worth? No wonder Cairo doesn't want to sell Belotti for anything under 100M. Mbappe next?