[han2503]

So apparently it's been reported that Klopp will take over as manager of Liverpool next season. Odd really. He managed to be in 10th in a one team league.

Apparently van Gaal is being considered a success. He took over a squad that won the league in 12-13, spent £200m and is nowhere near the title. Result! He's spectacularly failed.

I think he's considered a success based on what Moyes managed last season. But yeah, in the grand scheme of things it's still a massive failure

And wow, what a step down for Klopp, I really thought that after Dortmund he'd take over one of the top teams. PSG/City/Real/Chelsea/Man U were the only teams I envisioned him going for

[Fillipo Simone]

Massive failure for now. What Van Gaal brings is a system that needs to be tuned in and prepared. Maybe they threw away this season, but I can't say it's a failure yet cause LvG is a longterm project.

[Danny]

I think LvG has been a 'success' in the sense that he's completely overhauled Utd with a new system and it wasn't working, took ages to click into gear and now they are definitively (there's that word again) top 3 material.

They're not the SAF Man Utd, but then we're not the Carlo Milan.

Falcao and ADM have been utter failures, but Blind hasn't and slowly but surely LvG has turned them round. He's even turned Mata into a player.

Compared with where they were in September, they've had a good season.

[han2503]

I think LvG has been a 'success' in the sense that he's completely overhauled Utd with a new system and it wasn't working, took ages to click into gear and now they are definitively (there's that word again) top 3 material.

They're not the SAF Man Utd, but then we're not the Carlo Milan.

Falcao and ADM have been utter failures, but Blind hasn't and slowly but surely LvG has turned them round. He's even turned Mata into a player.

Compared with where they were in September, they've had a good season.

Di Maria was probably one of the best if not the best players from last season, he just doesn't fit in there and that's Van Gaal's failure imo

And saying top 3 material after they spent all that money for me is still a failure

[Danny]

Di Maria was probably one of the best if not the best players from last season, he just doesn't fit in there and that's Van Gaal's failure imo

And saying top 3 material after they spent all that money for me is still a failure

Are you one of those who defends Carlo's decade at Milan despite the world class squad, money spent, but only three major trophies secured?

[han2503]

Are you one of those who defends Carlo's decade at Milan despite the world class squad, money spent, but only three major trophies secured?

Nope, I've always said that for the quality he had, Carlo failed with Milan domestically

Even though I do acknowledge that the system was working against him back then seeing as Juve basically bought the league while having a top class team themselves as well.

However I do acknowledge that what Carlo did with us in Europe was unrivalled. We were one of the most consistently good teams in the CL from 02/03 to 06/07

[X-Offender]

Carlo sacrificed the league for Europe, plain and simple. As good as we were back then, we didn't have the capacity to win both.

2003 - CL
2004 - Serie A
2005 - CL final (should have won)
2006 - Failure
2007 - CL

IMO in those five seasons Carlo only failed once. 2005 should have been a success, it's just the circumstances that prevented it from being one. From 2008 onwards the team had degraded and we can't really fault him there anymore.

[Danny]

Nope,

Fair dues (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I can't be bothered looking at the mitigating factors, the details. He didn't do well enough over the decade to justify the reputation.

I even remember the criticism of him for those ridiculous subs in particular during the second half of his tenure.

[han2503]

Carlo sacrificed the league for Europe, plain and simple. As good as we were back then, we didn't have the capacity to win both.

2003 - CL
2004 - Serie A
2005 - CL final (should have won)
2006 - Failure
2007 - CL

IMO in those five seasons Carlo only failed once. 2005 should have been a success, it's just the circumstances that prevented it from being one. From 2008 onwards the team had degraded and we can't really fault him there anymore.

I don't think 2006 was a failure per se.

It was still a very good season one where we once again came very close in both major competitions and I personally believe that we should have made it through to the final had that Sheva goal not been wrongfully disallowed in the Camp Nou

I personally hold Carlo in very high regard. But yes, he valued Europe over the domestic competition and this was a mantra that ran throughout the club. Galliani was happy with it as well. Let's not all forget the DNA BS he used to spew so proudly. We were the top team in Europe based on UEFA co-efficient. We were that good in Europe. Our run-up to the final in 05, especially the games against Man U and Barca were just the essence of what that Carlo team was built on.

Fair dues (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I can't be bothered looking at the mitigating factors, the details. He didn't do well enough over the decade to justify the reputation.

I even remember the criticism of him for those ridiculous subs in particular during the second half of his tenure.

I think his CL exploits more than justify the stellar reputation imo.

I think there were many mitigating factors for why he didn't do as well domestically, but still, I do agree that he should have at least won one other title while he was with us

[Danny]

I think his CL exploits more than justify the stellar reputation imo.

I think there were many mitigating factors for why he didn't do as well domestically, but still, I do agree that he should have at least won one other title while he was with us

He knows how to win UCL. I give him that. But the man just isn't a league coach. In his entire managerial career spanning 20 years he's got three league titles. That does not justify his reputation at all.

In terms of continental/international trophies, yes, 8 is impressive, very impressive.

[han2503]

He knows how to win UCL. I give him that. But the man just isn't a league coach. In his entire managerial career spanning 20 years he's got three league titles. That does not justify his reputation at all.

In terms of continental/international trophies, yes, 8 is impressive, very impressive.

Well he has won in Italy, England and France, yes the number itself is meagre, but it's still a good record

[Danny]

Well he has won in Italy, England and France, yes the number itself is meagre, but it's still a good record

You can't call it both good and meagre!

[kurtsimonw]

Well he has won in Italy, England and France, yes the number itself is meagre, but it's still a good record

Can't take the titles away from him. But he's very good at losing things. Taking over PSG while they were in 1st, with a significantly better squad than anyone in the league, and not taking the title is one of the bigger failures by a manager in recent years IMO.

[han2503]

You can't call it both good and meagre!

I think you can. He should have done a lot better domestically considering the teams he's had but even with all that, he's still won in pretty much all of the major leagues. Spain is also still a possibility as well

Can't take the titles away from him. But he's very good at losing things. Taking over PSG while they were in 1st, with a significantly better squad than anyone in the league, and not taking the title is one of the bigger failures by a manager in recent years IMO.

Yep

[kurtsimonw]

And wow, what a step down for Klopp, I really thought that after Dortmund he'd take over one of the top teams. PSG/City/Real/Chelsea/Man U were the only teams I envisioned him going for

Wouldn't quite call it a step down. He's sitting 10th in the Bundesliga and going to a CL challenging, bigger club, in the Premier League? It seems certain managers just seem to get far more leeway than others. What Klopp has done this season is really awful, he should've been sacked.

Zorc is the success behind Dortmund IMO, he's signed these great players and Klopp has gained the benefits. As soon as he doesn't have these World class players, he had them in the bottom half of the table, despite having a top 3 squad.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Apr 22 2015, 12:07 PM