[han2503]

Who: Torino F.C. vs. A.C. Milan



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/Torino-Milan_zps0adad523.png)



Where: Stadio Olimpico di Torino



(IMG:http://www.stadiumguide.com/wp-content/uploads/olimpicotorino_front.jpg)



When:
10th January 2015 @ 8:45pm CET


Head-to-Head Record



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/Torinomilanstats_zps1b55ddd1.png)

[han2503]

Remember this? It dates back to 20 September after the game against Juve. I was told I was overreacting, but tell me now if I wasn't 100% correct about Mr. Pippo.

All hail you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But yes, you were right about him, I was still optimistic and hopeful about Pippo back then. Maybe out of sheer desperation because I know the management won't bring anyone better in instead

Oh but they are, they really are. In this horrible mess you can see how good for example Lopez or even Abate are. But then you can see as well how hopelessly bad Muntari is, how hopelessly mediocre Rami and Montolivo are.

What makes you think they're all capable of "such much better"? Do they have some silverware won? Made some impressive result so far? Rami won the league with Lille, Alex with PSV, Chelsea and PSG. Menez has some cups with Roma and of course tons of wins with PSG. But that's about it.

I really think all in all they are very mediocre. Bar a few players that stand out, none of them is able to perform constantly or at least consistently good. None of them made a real progress or shows grit, determination or a positive attitude/mentality.

This game goes mostly on Inzaghi, but again, I'm not gonna just blame him. After three coaches in one and a half year, I'm inclined to say there's pretty much everything wrong with this club. Up from management to the players.

No, can't agree at all.

The inconsistency of the players we're seeing now has to do with what Danny is saying. You can't be consistent when there's continuous change

Who are the best performing teams? Ones that have a set 11, that know each other inside out and can pass to each other with their eyes closed. Teams that have chemistry. Look at Chelsea, Real, Barca, any top team basically. They don't rotate almost the entire 11 each week. We have not played the same back 4 2 games in a row, how can you have cohesion and chemistry in these conditions?

Monto, De Jong, Menez, DS, Mexes, Rami, Zapata, Alex, Bonaventura and Poli were all looking good before the break, Monto especially was really picking up form after what was a really bad injury that most players take an entire season to recover from. But these last 2 games he's been p!ss poor, just like the others I mentioned in the list.

These last 2 games since coming back have been awful to watch. A goalkeeper has nothing to do with it, his form is more dependant upon himself, and while Lopez is a top player, you can't bulk the others that I mentioned and call them mediocre because they don't seem to know what the hell their coach wants from them.

Playing a disjointed 4-3-3 with no wingers in sight, playing a midfielder as a winger/forward, playing Menez as a #9, playing Niang out of the blue, playing Muntari over and over again when he brings nothing but trouble to the table. The way we shaped up was just all wrong, before the break we were compact and kept our shape much better, now it's a disjointed mess, the midfield isn't helping the defence at all, and imo it's the major reason why DS had to make the tackle that he got sent off for, we were giving Toro so much space.

It was all just a mess and imo it was all down to Pippo's decisions and tactics. Simple as that

Sure we had a lot of coaches in the last few years and none of them could do anything with this team, but you have to look at who those coaches were. Since Carlo we've had 3 rookies who had absolutely no experience with coaching a pro side and Allegri.

tbh you make some fair points. Abate looked a class above when he came on, and Lopez was exceptional.

But that said in fits and starts we've seen them all individually playing much better than they showed tonight - Monto had been in superb form until the loss v Sassuolo, Alex had been a collosus every match till that same fixture, and Menez has worked miracles at times.

I think the problem is Milan's decline is echoing that of Serie A - our standards are having to go down, and as such a player like Monto gets elevated in our minds to being as good as Pirlo within the context of current Milan. If real Pirlo played for us, we'd be blown away by how good he was, because we're now so used to much lesser players at the Club.

And Serie A too is far weaker than it once was - Juve were once collosal, late 90s for example. Ourselves, superb late 80s and over the piece between 90-2005. But now all these teams are fundamentally crap by comparison.

Truth is we DO have good players, players who could make us a top 3 team quite comfortably, in this weak Serie A. I even include MDS in this, in theory, if he was to realise the form which made us so excited about him back in the day. Does that come down to his own lack of ability being exposed, or poor management? Maybe both.

But poor management is definitely a factor in a lot of what's going on here.

You CANNOT put it solely on the players when we have not ONCE started two matches in a row under Pippo with the same XI. When he has us too high up V Sassuolo and failing to play offside, and then far too deep tonight. The guy doesn't have a clue. 35% of all our conceded goals came from corners. We just can't defend - but then, we seem to get a good defence for a match or two and guess what, Pisso changes it. Like he does with every part of the team, constantly. NO MATTER WHAT FORM THEY'RE IN.

Play well. Change. Play bad. Change. It's ridiculous and absurd management.

For once, I couldn't agree more with you

[Fillipo Simone]

No, can't agree at all.

The inconsistency of the players we're seeing now has to do with what Danny is saying. You can't be consistent when there's continuous change

Who are the best performing teams? Ones that have a set 11, that know each other inside out and can pass to each other with their eyes closed. Teams that have chemistry. Look at Chelsea, Real, Barca, any top team basically. They don't rotate almost the entire 11 each week. We have not played the same back 4 2 games in a row, how can you have cohesion and chemistry in these conditions?

Monto, De Jong, Menez, DS, Mexes, Rami, Zapata, Alex, Bonaventura and Poli were all looking good before the break, Monto especially was really picking up form after what was a really bad injury that most players take an entire season to recover from. But these last 2 games he's been p!ss poor, just like the others I mentioned in the list.

These last 2 games since coming back have been awful to watch. A goalkeeper has nothing to do with it, his form is more dependant upon himself, and while Lopez is a top player, you can't bulk the others that I mentioned and call them mediocre because they don't seem to know what the hell their coach wants from them.

Playing a disjointed 4-3-3 with no wingers in sight, playing a midfielder as a winger/forward, playing Menez as a #9, playing Niang out of the blue, playing Muntari over and over again when he brings nothing but trouble to the table. The way we shaped up was just all wrong, before the break we were compact and kept our shape much better, now it's a disjointed mess, the midfield isn't helping the defence at all, and imo it's the major reason why DS had to make the tackle that he got sent off for, we were giving Toro so much space.

It was all just a mess and imo it was all down to Pippo's decisions and tactics. Simple as that

Sure we had a lot of coaches in the last few years and none of them could do anything with this team, but you have to look at who those coaches were. Since Carlo we've had 3 rookies who had absolutely no experience with coaching a pro side and Allegri.

Yes, I agree. Much of the blame goes on Pippo. But I think y'all are overrating our players. The kind of body language, nonchalance, the evident lack of someone truly standing out, no real grit and determination: it goes both sides. Inzaghi is most probably the one responsible, but I cannot see how this team could make a turnaround even with a seasoned coach.

And it's not that Inzaghi and Seedorf are complete strangers to modern football. They worked with some of the greatest coaches around, I wouldn't say they're completely green.