[Milan Are Brilli...]

All World Cup 2014 talk in here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[han2503]

Can't wait, really excited for this one, Africa was just one huge let down, so hoping this will be better

[Jack Sparrow]

I support Team Hodgson. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[han2503]

I support Team Hodgson. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif)

[X-Offender]

I fancy Italy. I honestly think they have a really good team this time around.

[han2503]

I fancy Italy. I honestly think they have a really good team this time around.

Don't want to get my hopes up. But I'm hoping for a good run

Just think that a S. American team will win this thing this time around.

I am sort of expecting an implosion of sorts from Spain though. I think there time just has to come to an end sooner rather than later

[dst]

Can't wait, really excited for this one, Africa was just one huge let down, so hoping this will be better

I've never been less excited about a WC. Maybe as get closer I will.

[kurtsimonw]

Germany and France were great. They're the only World Cups I've seen that I thought were great. Japan/Korea was decent.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jun 2 2014, 02:08 PM

[han2503]

I've never been less excited about a WC. Maybe as get closer I will.

Well it can't get much closer now as we're only a few days away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Germany and France were great. They're the only World Cups I've seen that I thought were great. Japan/Korea was decent.

Yep, don't want to sound biased but I think they're organised better in European countries because they actually know what the sport is all about

[Danny]

Can't wait for this. A football-based distraction from the hell of Milan and Rangers right now.

My picks for the last 4 are Brazil, Germany, Uruguay and Belgium.

I'll also be watching out for Croatia, Portugal, Ghana and USA.

Argentina will flop, Spain will go out at last 8 and England won't get out their group.

Bring it on.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Germany and France were great. They're the only World Cups I've seen that I thought were great. Japan/Korea was decent.

I actually really liked 2002, even with the time zone and the bizarre Spain - Korea game. Germany was great though agree.

Anything, anything, ANYTHING will be an improvement on South Africa though, that was a horrible tournament in many ways.

[han2503]

Can't wait for this. A football-based distraction from the hell of Milan and Rangers right now.

My picks for the last 4 are Brazil, Germany, Uruguay and Belgium.

I'll also be watching out for Croatia, Portugal, Ghana and USA.

Argentina will flop, Spain will go out at last 8 and England won't get out their group.

Bring it on.

Interested choices Danny

But my guess is that the US won't get out of their group

[arivanjj]

I understand the home support will get brazil through group stage and round of 16. beyone that i just seeing them flopping. i really don't get why everyone else thinks they're so great but i guess we shall see.

Italy would be my pick for this one.

This post has been edited by arivanjj: Jun 3 2014, 12:56 PM

[X-Offender]

So, how's Brazil gonna play? I assume:

Cesar
Alves - Luiz - Silva - Marcelo
Ramires - Paulinho
Hulk - Oscar - Neymar
Fred

Meh, it's not that great. Defense looks good, but no-one in that midfield is a world beater, not even Neymar. And they don't have a world-class striker. Fred and Jo FFS?!

[han2503]

I understand the home support will get brazil through group stage and round of 16. beyone that i just seeing them flopping. i really don't get why everyone else thinks they're so great but i guess we shall see.

Italy would be my pick for this one.

I guess their performances in the Confederations Cup really helped along in hyping up their chances. Still I think the home advantage will be huge for them, as well as the other S. American sides

So, how's Brazil gonna play? I assume:

Cesar
Alves - Luiz - Silva - Marcelo
Ramires - Paulinho
Hulk - Oscar - Neymar
Fred

Meh, it's not that great. Defense looks good, but no-one in that midfield is a world beater, not even Neymar. And they don't have a world-class striker. Fred and Jo FFS?!

I read somewhere that Paulinho is out due to injury with Ramires taking over his spot. Don't know if this is correct though...

Agreed about the striker situation which is abysmal for them, the same country that fielded the best striker of this generation a decade ago now relies on this.

[Jack Sparrow]

Agreed about the striker situation which is abysmal for them, the same country that fielded the best striker of this generation a decade ago now relies on this.

Oliveira? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)




(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[han2503]

Oliveira? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)




(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Was he ever even on a Barzil WC squad? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Jack Bauer]

A little hint about who I always support:

(IMG:http://i1.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/400928-image-1340926273-371-640x480.jpg)

[han2503]

A little hint about who I always support:

(IMG:http://i1.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/400928-image-1340926273-371-640x480.jpg)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

2 questions, how do you think Italy will do against England? And what formation do you think they should play?

[X-Offender]

I always used to support Germany until 2012. I even got very upset in 2006 when Italy beat them in the semis. But being a huge Milan fan over the years, being exposed to their culture ever since I was a kid, and then living in Milan for three years sort of 'italianized' me, and in the 2012 Euro semis I finally realized that I support Italy more. Germany are still my second choice though.

[Jack Bauer]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

2 questions, how do you think Italy will do against England? And what formation do you think they should play?

I think it will be a boring draw or a minimal Azzurri win since Italy usually starts pretty slow and it takes them time to get things going.

I would play with Verratti in the further role (DDR, Pirlo and Marchisio are the other 3 mids) - as he's too talented to leave out - behind Balo and Immobile. Not Ideal but it is what it is when you don't have a good trequartista. But Prandelli will robably play with Candreva and Cassano.

[han2503]

I think it will be a boring draw or a minimal Azzurri win since Italy usually starts pretty slow and it takes them time to get things going.

I would play with Verratti in the further role (DDR, Pirlo and Marchisio are the other 3 mids) - as he's too talented to leave out - behind Balo and Immobile. Not Ideal but it is what it is when you don't have a good trequartista. But Prandelli will robably play with Candreva and Cassano.

Totally agree with you although I do think that Cassano or Insigne would be better strike partners for Balo as they have more of a creative edge to them rather than Immobile who is more of a direct player and would most likely force Balo in the "support" role.

Agreed on the midfield as well. I think Prandelli will go for the 4 CMs in the diamond, which is what has worked so well for them in the past, and I also agree that it should be Verratti playing the trequartista role and Marchisio being in the midfield 3 rather then the other way around.

My biggest worry is Candreva. I seriously do NOT want him anywhere near the starting line-up come that opener against England, especially not for someone like Verratti who's so talented and has so much to offer.

And x-off, great to hear that you've crossed over to the better side. Germany will just never beat Italy in open play at the rate things are going (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Danny]

Interested choices Danny

But my guess is that the US won't get out of their group

They won't, I'm just watching out for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm also keeping an eye on Colombia, albeit less so now than Falcao is out. Total tragedy that. They could have made the quarters with him. Now...who knows.

[Jack Bauer]

BTW, I feel so bad for Rossi, he's so unlucky. Second WC in a row he didn't make the 23 list and because all the injuries he's still never tasted a major international tournament.

[han2503]

They won't, I'm just watching out for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm also keeping an eye on Colombia, albeit less so now than Falcao is out. Total tragedy that. They could have made the quarters with him. Now...who knows.

Yeah, that's a huge loss for them. Don't know about making the quarters but they would have probably gotten out of their group

BTW, I feel so bad for Rossi, he's so unlucky. Second WC in a row he didn't make the 23 list and because all the injuries he's still never tasted a major international tournament.

I'm more p!ssed off rather then sad. A limited player like Candreva gets in the squad so Rossi loses out, same goes with Aquilani and Motta in all honesty who have both been horribly poor for Italy every time they were given the chance

[X-Offender]

I'm more p!ssed off rather then sad. A limited player like Candreva gets in the squad so Rossi loses out, same goes with Aquilani and Motta in all honesty who have both been horribly poor for Italy every time they were given the chance

If Rossi was to be picked, then another striker should have left, not any of the midfielders.

[kurtsimonw]

I get the impression it's only English people who actually support their own NT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[arivanjj]

I get the impression it's only English people who actually support their own NT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) so true. They have reached a level of mundane that can't be undone!

[han2503]

If Rossi was to be picked, then another striker should have left, not any of the midfielders.

Yeah I get that, but it really doesn't make much sense. Prandelli has taken an overload of midfielders, 3 of them all mediocre at best and only 2 recognised out and out strikers (I don't consider Cassano and Cerci strikers)

[Danny]

I get the impression it's only English people who actually support their own NT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

And even then it's hardly a labour of love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[han2503]

Candreva: Easily the most limited player I've seen with the Italy shirt in a while. Feels like playing with 10-men, he can't even make a simple cross field pass out to DS from the right side

[han2503]

And WTF is Prandelli doing with that midfield. I seriously hope this is not how he sets them out against England

Pirlo so high up is getting by-passed, he needs to be the one to pick the ball up from deep and dictate, not get stuck out nearly wide left.

Marchisio is playing as the AM which imo is a mistake as Verratti would be better there while Marchisio is best making those late runs into the box

[kurtsimonw]

Sterling sent off for being pushed in the back of the head and grabbed round the throat by Valencia. Valencia obviously should've been sent off, but to give Sterling a red there is ridiculous.

[kurtsimonw]

Italy with one of the worst International results... ever?

[Danny]

Put my bet on at last. I'm not a betting man but I've been shouting off my last 4 for ages so time to put my money where my mouth is and put £5 on Brazil, Uruguay, Germany and Belgium being the final 4.

[han2503]

Italy with one of the worst International results... ever?

Meh, didn't they draw with Haiti 2-2 before the Confeds? Then there was that 3-0 loss to Russia and 1-0 loss to the USA before the Euros.

They also drew both friendlies before the 06 WC as well as drew 2 and lost 1 before the 2010 WC

Aside from 2010, you can't really make much of it.

Prandelli started with the 11 (hopefully minus Candreva) that are most likely to start against England but it felt like he was taking the p!ss out of it with all of the experiments that were going on with the midfield and Candreva constantly changing positions and even their shape

[X-Offender]

Why would he play Candreva? Why? Why? Why?

[Jack Bauer]

Why would he play Candreva? Why? Why? Why?

(IMG:http://thechicagoimprovden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/blog-one-pic.png)

[han2503]

Why would he play Candreva? Why? Why? Why?

Seriously! He's easily the most limited player I've seen in a while play for Italy. And he was supposedly included in the line-up instead of Cassano because he provides more work rate and cover for Abate, but Marchisio and Pirlo were doing a better job at that on the left side helping DS out while Candreva was almost invisible.

He mostly made terrible passes, especially to Abate after he busted his gut to overlap his run and shot at row Z a couple of times.

There's obviously a lot Italy need to work in in the next few days. The midfield last night was a complete mess. Don't know if it was intentional from Prandelli to throw off the teams in their group as these friendlies are usually used as indications of how a team will play, especially for the opener.

Also, Cassano isn't a "hard worker" (not that Candreva was busting his @ss out there yesterday) but he gives Italy that creative spark that no one else on that team can, some of the combinations him and Balo played yesterday after he came on were simply amazing to watch.

Imo, the best 11 for Italy and the one they should play against England with is

Abate--Chiellini--Barzagli--MDS
Pirlo
De Rossi--Marchisio
Verratti
Balo--Cassano

[kurtsimonw]

I would hope Italy would do something like that. Lack of pace would be a huge plus to us.

[Jack Sparrow]

Prandelli's abysmal friendly record is not news. He treats friendlies they way they ought to be. Glorified training ground 11 v 11.

His record as NT coach is pretty impressive. I read it today morning. 20 victories and 3 defeats. 2 to Spain and 1 to Brazil in the Confed cup.

So if you're only losing to eventual tournament winners that's not too bad. Especially considering the shape of that squad.

That defence. Urgh!

[han2503]

I would hope Italy would do something like that. Lack of pace would be a huge plus to us.

Just like it was a huge plus for you in the Euros? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Italy have always had a lack of pace as a collective, sure there are certain pacy players who have played in the team, but mostly it's always been a relatively slow side.

We have pace where it matters imo, FBs. It's the only area England can use their pace. Sturridge through the centre will come up against Chiellini and Bonucci/Barzagli.

Prandelli's abysmal friendly record is not news. He treats friendlies they way they ought to be. Glorified training ground 11 v 11.

His record as NT coach is pretty impressive. I read it today morning. 20 victories and 3 defeats. 2 to Spain and 1 to Brazil in the Confed cup.

So if you're only losing to eventual tournament winners that's not too bad. Especially considering the shape of that squad.

That defence. Urgh!

I think it's 2 defeats, he only lost once to Spain, in the Final of the Euros. He drew with them both in the group stage and in the Confed Cup

[Danny]

I don't see Italy making it to the last 8.

[han2503]

I don't see Italy making it to the last 8.

We'll see, I'm not overly confident. The mish mash in the friendlies from Prandelli has put in even more doubt at the back of my mind.

But if they do get out of the group I think last 8 is a given considering whoever comes out of group D is going to face relatively easy opposition. Quarter final is where both teams will get halted as you have either Spain or Brazil waiting for you (unless an unthinkable upset occurs).

My only concern is how Italy start this tournament. They're notorious slow starters, and this England game has a bore draw written all over it. So what they do against Costa Rica and Uruguay will be crucial

[X-Offender]

I honestly see Italy winning the thing, but that's just me.

[han2503]

I honestly see Italy winning the thing, but that's just me.

Nah, I think they have problems in defence and Mario goes too hot and cold to rely on. I personally can't see them getting past Brazil in the quarters if they don't win their group

Btw, what do you think about that line-up I posted? Do you agree with kurt that it's too slow and England's kick and rush players will relish it?

[X-Offender]

Too slow? How? Besides Pirlo, you've got three hard-working MFs, plus Abate and De Sciglio that offer enough cover, as well as lots of creativity. I think it's a very balanced line-up. Don't know how Verratti will fare as AM, but I can totally see it working.

[han2503]

Too slow? How? Besides Pirlo, you've got three hard-working MFs, plus Abate and De Sciglio that offer enough cover, as well as lots of creativity. I think it's a very balanced line-up. Don't know how Verratti will fare as AM, but I can totally see it working.

Agreed.

I've been listening a lot to English pundits as of late to try to gouge what the general consensus is about the Italy game.

Obviously they're all wary of it, but their biggest pre-occupation is Pirlo. All they talk about is man-marking Pirlo to not let him get so much of the ball and run the game as he did in 2012. The flaw in that is that they have to get one of their strikers to do it (mentioning Danny Wellbeck atm). And they're also forgetting that Italy have 3 other great mids in there who can be as good or better on the ball than any of their midfielders. Don't know if Prandelli was experimenting yesterday by removing Pirlo from that position to have a plan B if somehow they manage to shackle him, that's what I'm hoping at least.

And I think Verratti can be great there, he's not slow, he's great at making those little incisive passes in tight spaces as well. I don't really get why they compare him to Pirlo, totally different kind of player. The only thing that worries me about them is they tend to like occupying the same areas on the pitch, they were both part of the midfield 3 yesterday and sort of got in each other's way on certain occasions. Having Verratti as the AM would ensure that he won't get in Pirlo's way in that regard

[kurtsimonw]

Just like it was a huge plus for you in the Euros? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeah exactly, they couldn't beat us in the Euros so it works for us.

[Danny]

I honestly see Italy winning the thing, but that's just me.

Given the current weakness of Italian players and Serie A in comparison with far stronger teams of the past, this Italy is a pale shadow of teams from years gone by.

Serie A is pretty mediocre and far weaker than so many other of its peer leagues. And that's where the players are all coming from, PSG goalie aside.

I think they will really struggle in this world cup.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I've got well over my hatred of them re: Euro 2008 qualification. Although I will mind being proven wrong if it means I lose my bet ha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[han2503]

Yeah exactly, they couldn't beat us in the Euros so it works for us.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

"couldn't beat us" is a quote that speaks for itself and the level of ambition the English have for this game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In all seriousness though Italy outclassed England in the Euros and had they advanced it would have been a huge injustice. In all honesty Italy should have won that game in the 90 minutes.

But I don't really get what your initial point was about pace... I'm supposing you meant that Italy's lack of pace would be beneficial for England. But in what way? Since going by your latest comment you don't expect to win, just to not lose

[han2503]

Given the current weakness of Italian players and Serie A in comparison with far stronger teams of the past, this Italy is a pale shadow of teams from years gone by.

Serie A is pretty mediocre and far weaker than so many other of its peer leagues. And that's where the players are all coming from, PSG goalie aside.

I think they will really struggle in this world cup.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I've got well over my hatred of them re: Euro 2008 qualification. Although I will mind being proven wrong if it means I lose my bet ha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I really don't think the state of the domestic league has much baring here though, was the league any better in 2012, or even in 2006 when it was already going down hill not to mention all the corruption that had just been revealed?

Personally I think this side is as good as the 2006 one, probably better as a collective because that squad had some real stinkers thanks to Lippi and his obsession with Palermo players

Yes that Italy side had bigger names in defence like Canna, Nesta and Zambro, while Rino was probably in the middle of having 2 of his best seasons. but other than that. Totti and Del Piero were both irrelevant, Totti was a starter but I always saw him as a peripheral figure in the team, there was Camoranesi, Perrotta, Grosso, Gila, Iaquinta, etc all starting regularly in that world cup.

[X-Offender]

I don't really get why they compare him to Pirlo, totally different kind of player.

He's the exact same player as Modric. Identical style, identical technique. Italy have a gem in their hands. Definitely gonna become a football great, if he already isn't.

Given the current weakness of Italian players and Serie A in comparison with far stronger teams of the past, this Italy is a pale shadow of teams from years gone by.

Serie A is pretty mediocre and far weaker than so many other of its peer leagues. And that's where the players are all coming from, PSG goalie aside.

I think they will really struggle in this world cup.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I've got well over my hatred of them re: Euro 2008 qualification. Although I will mind being proven wrong if it means I lose my bet ha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Um, like Han said, the quality of the league has really got nothing to do here. England have the best league in the world yet their NT is pretty average currently compared to other powerhouses.

I think Italy have about 14-15 very good players in there, who know each-other well. Their midfield is as good as Germany's and Spain's IMO. I honestly think you're underestimating them.

[Danny]

Um, like Han said, the quality of the league has really got nothing to do here. England have the best league in the world yet their NT is pretty average currently compared to other powerhouses.

Errrr no, England have the most competitive league of the big 3, not the best. Didn't you see how their clubs struggled in ALL European competitions last season?

Spain, now, is the best league, thanks to having 3 titans challenging for the title and a very strong Bilbao.

I've never been fond of Spain on any level but anyone calling the EPL stronger than La Liga currently, is, well, absolutely potty! And I mean that fondly of course (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think Italy have about 14-15 very good players in there, who know each-other well. Their midfield is as good as Germany's and Spain's IMO. I honestly think you're underestimating them.

We shall see but I stand by my last 4 prediction. I think Italy are poor and it'll be reflected in their world cup.

[han2503]

Errrr no, England have the most competitive league of the big 3, not the best. Didn't you see how their clubs struggled in ALL European competitions last season?

Spain, now, is the best league, thanks to having 3 titans challenging for the title and a very strong Bilbao.

I've never been fond of Spain on any level but anyone calling the EPL stronger than La Liga currently, is, well, absolutely potty! And I mean that fondly of course (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

England have had an all English final in the CL, have had 2 teams winning the CL since the last 2 world cups (2006 - now), and always have at least one club representing the league in the semi finals. How is that poor?

Yet in every one of those WCs the English side has just been shameful in their showings imo

Spain has 2 giants and an overall poor league where the other teams struggle to stay financially afloat each year. Atletico had a massive season thanks to their coach who made them a strong unit. But this is a side who has already been picked off of its best players. And that's just 2 or 3 who are really class, the rest are all pretty average who were part of a great collective, once tha collective is picked apart they won't be that great.

We shall see but I stand by my last 4 prediction. I think Italy are poor and it'll be reflected in their world cup.

Can you explain how this side is poor?

This is a side that got to the Euro finals 2 years ago, did very well in the confed cup just last summer, went through their group undefeated and qualified with 2 games to spare.

No they don't have the star names Brazil, Spain and Argentina have. I just don't get where that poor tag comes from. But make no mistake, Italy do their best when they're underestimated and derided by the international media, and I seriously hope everyone, especially the English think the same as you do

[Danny]

England have had an all English final in the CL, have had 2 teams winning the CL since the last 2 world cups (2006 - now), and always have at least one club representing the league in the semi finals. How is that poor?

If you can quote my saying the EPL is poor I'll be interested to see it.

Yet in every one of those WCs the English side has just been shameful in their showings imo

Spain has 2 giants and an overall poor league where the other teams struggle to stay financially afloat each year. Atletico had a massive season thanks to their coach who made them a strong unit. But this is a side who has already been picked off of its best players. And that's just 2 or 3 who are really class, the rest are all pretty average who were part of a great collective, once tha collective is picked apart they won't be that great.

I agree, hence the league has become more competitive and the big 2 are now big 3, borderline 4. And you will have noticed I haven't got Spain as a semifinalist.

Can you explain how this side is poor?

This is a side that got to the Euro finals 2 years ago, did very well in the confed cup just last summer, went through their group undefeated and qualified with 2 games to spare.

Got to the Euro finals 2 years ago? What do you mean? As for their group, it was awful. A completely hideous Czech Rep (their great teams are something of the past now) and a rather weak Denmark. Even a half decent team could have won that group with something to spare.

No they don't have the star names Brazil, Spain and Argentina have. I just don't get where that poor tag comes from. But make no mistake, Italy do their best when they're underestimated and derided by the international media, and I seriously hope everyone, especially the English think the same as you do

I don't rate Spain or Argentina any more than I do Italy.

But make no mistake, they'll beat England. Uruguay and Italy will go through from that group.

[kurtsimonw]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

"couldn't beat us" is a quote that speaks for itself and the level of ambition the English have for this game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In all seriousness though Italy outclassed England in the Euros and had they advanced it would have been a huge injustice. In all honesty Italy should have won that game in the 90 minutes.

But I don't really get what your initial point was about pace... I'm supposing you meant that Italy's lack of pace would be beneficial for England. But in what way? Since going by your latest comment you don't expect to win, just to not lose

Yeah, but the game was 0-0. Did I say we would win? No. Did I say we would draw? No. I just think a lack of pace certainly helps England. Italy didn't have any pace at the Euros and it helped. They couldn't get in behind, they didn't have players that would run at us. It was shots from distance or them trying to play the ball through our defence and not being able to. I don't really know what you expect me to say. One minute you say Italy are better than England, the next you find it odd I think us not losing is good thing.

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jun 5 2014, 11:24 PM

[han2503]

If you can quote my saying the EPL is poor I'll be interested to see it.

Sorry, that poor comment on Italy was still gnawing at my mind so I wrote it there with regards to my bit on the EPL.

No you didn't say it was poor, but you implied that it was going through a rough patch. My point was that during the last 2 WCs, English teams have been great in Europe but were still absolute pish (as you Scottish laddies would say) in every major tournament they played

I agree, hence the league has become more competitive and the big 2 are now big 3, borderline 4. And you will have noticed I haven't got Spain as a semifinalist.

But really, during Spain's last major 3 tournament wins there were only really 2 teams in the thing, Atletico have only really emerged as a force over these past 2 seasons or so and I personally think it will end with this season as them selling their best players now will spell the end of them imo

Sorry, forgot your predictions. Belgium, Brazil, and who were the other 2?

Got to the Euro finals 2 years ago? What do you mean? As for their group, it was awful. A completely hideous Czech Rep (their great teams are something of the past now) and a rather weak Denmark. Even a half decent team could have won that group with something to spare.

Euro 2012 runners up was a big achievement imo, especially for a side that no one really touted as a possible challenger. And once they rolled up against Germany were completely written off. I think having a momentum in competitive tournaments is a good indication of how a side will perform imo

And HEY NOW, Malta was in that group!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But seriously, when are these qualifying groups really that hard? But even the biggest team sometimes still manage to flounder

I don't rate Spain or Argentina any more than I do Italy.

Nah, rating Belgium a totally inexperienced side but not Spain or Argentina? I think Spain will still do seriously well, I don't think they'll win it but I can see them in the semis easily. Argentina are a toss up but the talent they have is unquestionable.

But make no mistake, they'll beat England. Uruguay and Italy will go through from that group.

lol so we're arguing whether Italy are good or not, but the person who thinks they're poor predicts that they'll beat England and the person who thinks they're good predicts that they won't beat England. What a pair we make (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[X-Offender]

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

Exactly. Except for Barça and Madrid, the rest are all Europa League level. Atletico doesn't even count cos next season they'll be a former shadow of this season's side. Mark my words. Seasons like this happen only once in a lifetime for clubs like Atletico.

[Danny]

Exactly. Except for Barça and Madrid, the rest are all Europa League level. Atletico doesn't even count cos next season they'll be a former shadow of this season's side. Mark my words. Seasons like this happen only once in a lifetime for clubs like Atletico.

It's only happening to Atletico because Chelsea have just taken their best 4 players! I now agree Atleti are unlikely to sustain this next season simply because no team on earth could cope with their star striker, goalie, midfielder and LB all leaving.

And that's without even mentioning Miranda and Turan who'll probably move too.

Shame, they've become prey to the vultures.

[Danny]

Sorry, that poor comment on Italy was still gnawing at my mind so I wrote it there with regards to my bit on the EPL.

No you didn't say it was poor, but you implied that it was going through a rough patch. My point was that during the last 2 WCs, English teams have been great in Europe but were still absolute pish (as you Scottish laddies would say) in every major tournament they played

Mainly because the EPL and its best teams don't rely on English players. The last two sides to win CL from England, Utd and Chelsea, relied on Ronaldo and Drogba. Whereas Barca and Atleti/Real relied on their Spanish core and Bayern on their German.

The English squad, while not abominable, is so far off what it's been in the even recent past it's almost sad to see. I look at that squad and it is just so below even an England team from a decade ago.

But really, during Spain's last major 3 tournament wins there were only really 2 teams in the thing, Atletico have only really emerged as a force over these past 2 seasons or so and I personally think it will end with this season as them selling their best players now will spell the end of them imo

Sorry, forgot your predictions. Belgium, Brazil, and who were the other 2?

Germany and Uruguay. Stand to pocket £750 if I'm right!

Euro 2012 runners up was a big achievement imo, especially for a side that no one really touted as a possible challenger. And once they rolled up against Germany were completely written off. I think having a momentum in competitive tournaments is a good indication of how a side will perform imo

Germany ALWAYS make the semis in pretty much every tournament, and I agree that Italy did very well to make that final. Just think other nations are even stronger today and by Italy's normal standards their current team isn't really that special.

And HEY NOW, Malta was in that group!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But seriously, when are these qualifying groups really that hard? But even the biggest team sometimes still manage to flounder

All true but don't use an unbeaten record as evidence of a team's strength (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nah, rating Belgium a totally inexperienced side but not Spain or Argentina? I think Spain will still do seriously well, I don't think they'll win it but I can see them in the semis easily. Argentina are a toss up but the talent they have is unquestionable.

Spain were inexperienced in 2008 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Belgium are very very strong and I think they can do real damage in this tournament.

lol so we're arguing whether Italy are good or not, but the person who thinks they're poor predicts that they'll beat England and the person who thinks they're good predicts that they won't beat England. What a pair we make (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Beats arguing over Milan (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[han2503]

Yeah, but the game was 0-0. Did I say we would win? No. Did I say we would draw? No. I just think a lack of pace certainly helps England. Italy didn't have any pace at the Euros and it helped. They couldn't get in behind, they didn't have players that would run at us. It was shots from distance or them trying to play the ball through our defence and not being able to. I don't really know what you expect me to say. One minute you say Italy are better than England, the next you find it odd I think us not losing is good thing.

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

I was just making a sort of joke because your expectations are to not lose rather than to win.

With regards to the game in 2012, Italy had a bag of chances, not to mention hitting the post once or twice. Plus, I think that England defence was better than this one imo. John Terry and Ashley Cole imo still should be in there as they're better defenders (note my enphasis on defenders) than Baines and Jagielka (did I spell that correctly?). Not to mention that in the Euros Hodgson was basically playing to lines of defence. Young was more pre-occupied with covering Abate's runs than actually trying to do anything attack-wise for example, I don't really think England's new, young and exciting (as per the advertising done by the English pundits) players will really want to put in all that work. Yes, they're trying to go in the Liverpool direction but there was one big flaw with Liverpool this season, their defending was absolutely horrible.

Agreed on that 2nd bit about La Liga and the EPL

Mainly because the EPL and its best teams don't rely on English players. The last two sides to win CL from England, Utd and Chelsea, relied on Ronaldo and Drogba. Whereas Barca and Atleti/Real relied on their Spanish core and Bayern on their German.

The English squad, while not abominable, is so far off what it's been in the even recent past it's almost sad to see. I look at that squad and it is just so below even an England team from a decade ago.

True, but it's also true that most of the English players were also important parts of those squads that won the CL.

Germany and Uruguay. Stand to pocket £750 if I'm right!

Hope you don't win! I want Italy in there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Germany ALWAYS make the semis in pretty much every tournament, and I agree that Italy did very well to make that final. Just think other nations are even stronger today and by Italy's normal standards their current team isn't really that special.

But as I mentioned before it's not really all about the names, it's how the team gels and works together. Italy in 06 were far from the best team in that tournament. the 2002 squad were miles ahead of that 06 one and this current one imo.

All true but don't use an unbeaten record as evidence of a team's strength (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I still think it's an important factor, not to mention that Prandelli has only had 2 losses in competitive games throughout his tenure as coach of the NT

Spain were inexperienced in 2008 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Belgium are very very strong and I think they can do real damage in this tournament.

I don't think they had as much young raw talent as Belgium currently do, most of their players were established and were winning CLs with their club. But agree that in 2008 they were considered a team of underachievers and really banished that stereotype

Beats arguing over Milan (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It sure does (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[X-Offender]

It's only happening to Atletico because Chelsea have just taken their best 4 players! I now agree Atleti are unlikely to sustain this next season simply because no team on earth could cope with their star striker, goalie, midfielder and LB all leaving.

And that's without even mentioning Miranda and Turan who'll probably move too.

Shame, they've become prey to the vultures.

Even if they don't sell anyone it still wouldn't matter. When a club overachieves one season, the next season players are drained of motivation and energy, morally and physically. Milan in 2007 and Inter in 2010 are prime examples of that.

[kurtsimonw]

I was just making a sort of joke because your expectations are to not lose rather than to win.

Fair enough. I have to be honest and realistic about expectations though. To me, it would be a successful World Cup if we make the round of 16. Ro16 isn't special, but it would be a big achievement to get out of that group.

[han2503]

Fair enough. I have to be honest and realistic about expectations though. To me, it would be a successful World Cup if we make the round of 16. Ro16 isn't special, but it would be a big achievement to get out of that group.

I personally think both England and Italy will qualify. That first game will obviously be a draw but I think both teams can do well against the South Americans, Especially if Suarez isn't fit and Cavani is in his PSG form

Whoever gets out of this group will get to the quarters imo unless they f@ck up big time in the round of 16 against a team from group C

[Danny]

Even if they don't sell anyone it still wouldn't matter. When a club overachieves one season, the next season players are drained of motivation and energy, morally and physically. Milan in 2007 and Inter in 2010 are prime examples of that.

Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

[han2503]

Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

How long do you think it will take before Atleti lose their coach as well?

[X-Offender]

Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club? Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Fair enough. I have to be honest and realistic about expectations though. To me, it would be a successful World Cup if we make the round of 16. Ro16 isn't special, but it would be a big achievement to get out of that group.

You're damned if you have realistic expectations & you're damned if you want them to do well.

[han2503]

You're damned if you have realistic expectations & you're damned if you want them to do well.

The thing is, it feels like England pundits and the majority of fans are continually trying to play down their chances, but underneath the surface you can almost feel like that constant need they have to restrict themselves from overhyping their team, their young talent (they're sill doing this a lot anyway).

So it mostly feels like they're fake trying to underplay everything when it comes to England atm, but you know that underneath all that there's that English reporter just screaming on the inside to stir things up, declare them as world beaters and then start rubbing his hands gleefully at the prospect bashing and slamming them down when they return home as quarter finalists once again

[X-Offender]

Ribery out of the WC.

[han2503]

Ribery out of the WC.

Falcao, Ribery...................... Oxlade Chamberlain

[kurtsimonw]

First 2 are, in my opinion, hilariously overrated players.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

The thing is, it feels like England pundits and the majority of fans are continually trying to play down their chances, but underneath the surface you can almost feel like that constant need they have to restrict themselves from overhyping their team, their young talent (they're sill doing this a lot anyway).

So it mostly feels like they're fake trying to underplay everything when it comes to England atm, but you know that underneath all that there's that English reporter just screaming on the inside to stir things up, declare them as world beaters and then start rubbing his hands gleefully at the prospect bashing and slamming them down when they return home as quarter finalists once again

What can we actually say? Saying we can get out of a pretty tough group is a realistic expectation for this team, however that's apparently downplaying. Yet should anyone suggest they could do more than that are overrating them and calling them World Beaters?

I have no idea what we're even meant to say without being criticised & people thinking there's some pre-agenda (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

---

Also, agreed on Ribery, almost never turns up in big games.

[X-Offender]

Agreed about Ribery as well. One of the most overrated players currently playing.

[han2503]

First 2 are, in my opinion, hilariously overrated players.

Don't think Falcoa is overrated in any way, Ribery, yes

What can we actually say? Saying we can get out of a pretty tough group is a realistic expectation for this team, however that's apparently downplaying. Yet should anyone suggest they could do more than that are overrating them and calling them World Beaters?

I have no idea what we're even meant to say without being criticised & people thinking there's some pre-agenda (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

---

Also, agreed on Ribery, almost never turns up in big games.

The problem is that it's your own media that will feast on the leftovers the most gleefully, which I find relatively hilarious.

Like I said above, I expect England to qualify, some of the things I read and listened to were even trying to downplay that possibility.

Every time I read something about England they're making a point of mentioning how the team is going into their first tournament in a while without all the hype. Imo they're hyping the young players the most, and if they fail to show up I'd hate to think the reception they'll get

[acid911]

Like I said above, I expect England to qualify, some of the things I read and listened to were even trying to downplay that possibility.

Only one will. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) England lose against Italy, they are out, they draw they are out, they win, Italy is out. I am fairly confident that beating Uruguay in their continent is going to be tough for both teams. They have the most world titles for a reason. All relatively safe guesses, of course, but I feel that only one of Italy or England will move ahead.

[kurtsimonw]

Yeah Uruguay are essentially at home, that's why I think they'll go through.

Reus hurt tonight, his World Cup in doubt.

[han2503]

Only one will. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) England lose against Italy, they are out, they draw they are out, they win, Italy is out. I am fairly confident that beating Uruguay in their continent is going to be tough for both teams. They have the most world titles for a reason. All relatively safe guesses, of course, but I feel that only one of Italy or England will move ahead.

A draw wouldn't be the end of the world for either team imo, and I have a sneaking suspicion that that's what they'll aim for.

But if either team wins that opener... Yeah, whoever loses is most likely out of this before its even started

Still, my prediction is England and Italy to qualify. Simply cannot stand Uruguay, even more than England, and that's saying something

[Danny]

They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club? Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).

Must say I feel you just totally ignored everything I just said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Danny]

How long do you think it will take before Atleti lose their coach as well?

Agreed - I think Simeone will move. If they'd won CL I think he'd have stayed but now with the team being decimated I think he will be attracted by a big-money move to some rich team. Probably in Russia.

I'd love him at Milan but that's not happening.

[han2503]

Agreed - I think Simeone will move. If they'd won CL I think he'd have stayed but now with the team being decimated I think he will be attracted by a big-money move to some rich team. Probably in Russia.

I'd love him at Milan but that's not happening.

I personally wouldn't

[X-Offender]

Must say I feel you just totally ignored everything I just said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

No, I honestly don't think I did.

[Danny]

No, I honestly don't think I did.

Your rebuttal was very weak then and filled with conjecture. And I think we can leave it there.

[Danny]

I personally wouldn't

He's arguably the best tactician around right now. Indeed, the only mistakes I saw him make were in the final. And I knew what he was trying to do, it just wasn't good enough.

[X-Offender]

Your rebuttal was very weak then and filled with conjecture. And I think we can leave it there.

Nah, that's just you not wanting to be proved wrong. Conjecture? What conjecture? C'mon now, Danny... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Danny]

Nah, that's just you not wanting to be proved wrong. Conjecture? What conjecture? C'mon now, Danny... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Got no issue being proven wrong, but you didn't do so. To humour you though...I will reply.

[Danny]

They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club?

Yup. That was the kind of shoddy result they had under Zacherroni, Mancini, Benitez...
That often happens when a great team loses its marquee manager.

Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

Because Jose left and was replaced by infamously poor Benitez who couldn't handle domestic football outwith Spain.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).

No, I was referring to the season before this one where they made the CL final but were MILLLLLLLLLLLLES off Bayern in the league - 30 - points behind.

This season, without Goetze especially, they really struggled - nowhere near the same force in CL albeit still about the same in the league.

But the point is about Atleti - how have they overachieved? You say Dortmund 'have' a fantastic team. Does this mean Atleti don't?

This post has been edited by Danny: Jun 7 2014, 01:27 AM

[X-Offender]

Yup. That was the kind of shoddy result they had under Zacherroni, Mancini, Benitez...
That often happens when a great team loses its marquee manager.

Why are you even mentioning Zaccheroni? We're obviously talking about post-Calciopoli Inter here, when they grounded themselves as a local powerhouse. Before Mourinho took over they had two excellent seasons under Mancini. Granted, they failed in Europe, but so did Mourinho in his first season with them.

I'm not saying Mourinho's departure didn't have any effects on the team, but the players couldn't handle another season at extreme levels after giving their 110% in the prior one. In fact, that's why I think Mourinho left in the first place. He sniffed the inevitable deterioration and decided to leave as a winner.

Because Jose left and was replaced by infamously poor Benitez who couldn't handle domestic football outwith Spain.

Or maybe because the players didn't want Benitez? Yeah, remember those phone calls between Mourinho and the senators? Another aspect to take into consideration.

No, I was referring to the season before this one where they made the CL final but were MILLLLLLLLLLLLES off Bayern in the league - 30 - points behind.

This season, without Goetze especially, they really struggled - nowhere near the same force in CL albeit still about the same in the league.

Klopp made it pretty clear that that season they were going to focus on the CL after coming from two consecutive league titles. So, that 30-point gap isn't such a shock.

And yes, this season they did struggle, but you yet fail to take into account the many, many injuries that plagued the team. Anyone who watches the Bundesliga can confirm this.

But the point is about Atleti - how have they overachieved? You say Dortmund 'have' a fantastic team. Does this mean Atleti don't?

No, I don't think they do. Atletico's primary and only strength is the collective and discipline. They have very average players and play some boring and unattractive football, unlike Dortmund who have great players in every role and are a feast to watch. Plus Dortmund have been much more consistent than Atletico overall.

[Ry4n]

England don't have group from hell , Italy are on a dire run, Uruguay are shaky and Costa Rica should be beaten... but here are my predictions !

England vs Italy 1-1 or 2-1 to either side.

England vs Uruguay 2-2

England vs Costa rica 3-0

With englands defence we will concede goals we're just going to have to outscore them.

We could make it past the group stage anything more is a bonus , its all well and good the players have the mentality we are in it to win it , its good for the morale of the England camp. But as an england supporter i'm tired of putting so much pressure on them going there to win it , its just better to have lower expectations...

or we could just put on this track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqimlFcJsM

[Fillipo Simone]

I don't know, I think this group is pretty much unpredictable.

[han2503]

He's arguably the best tactician around right now. Indeed, the only mistakes I saw him make were in the final. And I knew what he was trying to do, it just wasn't good enough.

It's not just about the tactical mistakes in the final. How he behaved was absolutely disgusting imo. I really can't stand the guy

I don't know, I think this group is pretty much unpredictable.

What would be your predictions though Fillipo?

[Danny]

It's not just about the tactical mistakes in the final. How he behaved was absolutely disgusting imo. I really can't stand the guy

tbh he can urinate all over the ref and gesture obscene insults to the fourth official and opposition fans if he wants, I don't really care.

We need success, not 'dignity'. Of course this is a different thing to the hierarchy mistreating our current manager.

[Danny]

Why are you even mentioning Zaccheroni? We're obviously talking about post-Calciopoli Inter here, when they grounded themselves as a local powerhouse. Before Mourinho took over they had two excellent seasons under Mancini. Granted, they failed in Europe, but so did Mourinho in his first season with them.

I'm not saying Mourinho's departure didn't have any effects on the team, but the players couldn't handle another season at extreme levels after giving their 110% in the prior one. In fact, that's why I think Mourinho left in the first place. He sniffed the inevitable deterioration and decided to leave as a winner.



Or maybe because the players didn't want Benitez? Yeah, remember those phone calls between Mourinho and the senators? Another aspect to take into consideration.



Klopp made it pretty clear that that season they were going to focus on the CL after coming from two consecutive league titles. So, that 30-point gap isn't such a shock.

And yes, this season they did struggle, but you yet fail to take into account the many, many injuries that plagued the team. Anyone who watches the Bundesliga can confirm this.



No, I don't think they do. Atletico's primary and only strength is the collective and discipline. They have very average players and play some boring and unattractive football, unlike Dortmund who have great players in every role and are a feast to watch. Plus Dortmund have been much more consistent than Atletico overall.

...so this proves me wrong? Ok...and breathe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[X-Offender]

...so this proves me wrong? Ok...and breathe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It tells you that you shouldn't treat someone's opinion which you disagree with as conjecture. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Danny]

It tells you that you shouldn't treat someone's opinion which you disagree with as conjecture. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Most opinion is conjecture. We base our views on our perceived facts, and use hyperbole, exaggeration, emotion and rhetoric to espouse them. Our opinions are caked in our own values - of course they're conjecture. Basic semantics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[X-Offender]

Most opinion is conjecture. We base our views on our perceived facts, and use hyperbole, exaggeration, emotion and rhetoric to espouse them. Our opinions are caked in our own values - of course they're conjecture. Basic semantics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Not if an opinion is based on verifiable data, though. That doesn't make it conjecture. But that's besides the point.

You've disregarded my arguments as weak in the last two pages, even though I've perfectly explained my stance with all the necessary information in order to give it enough credibility. I never intended to prove you wrong, but it seemed to me that you didn't want to be proved wrong, which is different. Instead of acting like a wiseass, you could have simply argued back, or just agreed to disagree and move on.

[X-Offender]

Reus out of the WC as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Danny]

Not if an opinion is based on verifiable data, though. That doesn't make it conjecture.

Yes it does. If I say I think Ronaldo is the world's best player, I've based it on what I believe are verified data. But it's still just my bloody opinion and Messi fans will disagree.

But that's besides the point.

You've disregarded my arguments as weak in the last two pages,

One post. I dismissed one post. Stop over reacting!

even though I've perfectly explained my stance with all the necessary information in order to give it enough credibility.

You didn't though, your response didn't make your case any stronger, it only showed the weaknesses in your argument.
Saying that Inter lost 5-2 to Schalke or whoever didn't prove anything. It was pure conjecture.

I never intended to prove you wrong, but it seemed to me that you didn't want to be proved wrong, which is different. Instead of acting like a wiseass, you could have simply argued back, or just agreed to disagree and move on.

Ah this forum needs its wiseasses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (PS I did agree to disagree and move on, you're the one who wouldn't let it go because I called your opinion conjecture, wiseass (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

[Danny]

Reus out of the WC as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I find these friendlies more damaging than good. Monto and Reus needlessly out of the world cup now.