[X-Offender]

I think they will fail. They lost the only two sources of creativity they had in midfield. They won against Atalanta at the 93' after a wonder goal from Jovetic, and barely defeated a newly-promoted Carpi who had been destroyed the previous week by Sampdoria with a 90' penalty.

Granted, the championship just started, but I have a feeling they won't achieve much.

[acid911]

I disagree with the statement that he's overrated. I don't think he is, at all

Oh but he is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) No one is worth 100m, and even if the few that are, are the types that have a more direct bearing on match results, instead of the usually passive work Pogba puts in as a midfielder. He is a very good player, though, but the fact that some rate him much higher than what he has delivered so far, on potential that is to say, means that he is overrated.

At least right now. If he keeps on improving and imposing himself, then yes, the hype will be justified. And that's what I'm interested in finding out. Point being, you can be really good and overrated at the same time. Or great and underrated.

[Fillipo Simone]

You can't compare a big club with a team like Toro, everything is different, the way the team approaches games, the tactics, the system, etc.

Why does a player like Cerci excel at Toro but fails miserably at every top club he's gone to? Why do strikers like Gila, Matri, Di Vaio, Pazzini, Tavano, etc excel at their mid level clubs where service and opportunities are at a premium but are generally lacklustre at bigger clubs with better players behind them where they are given more to play off of?

Toro play a certain way, they are generally a counterattacking side. Meaning when they do attack they have more space to work in. At Milan we're trying to play a possession based system when we don't have the players for it. It's why Bertolacci for example looks seriously terrible, because he's not a good passer or a visionary on the ball. He's great at vertical runs into space and being the extra man in the box, but when it comes to possession football he's more of a liability for us.

Sure you're right, it has to do with mentality as well. But for me the major problem is that Silvio wants the team to play in a certain way when we don't have the players for it. His little mind that's stuck in the 80s still thinks that playing attractive football has all to do with the attack. But that's imo the least important factor in it. This is the guy who admires Pep and his past Barca side. How can you watch that team play and still think that midfield is not the most crucial department for any top side is beyond me.

And btw, we can thank Allegri for this idea of by-passing the midfield to score, because this has been going on since his first season with us, only back then we could punt the ball in the general direction of Ibra and he'd do the rest

I think those two are interconnected, more then you know. Because not all players are Gilardinos and Chiesas. You had also players like Batistuta, like Simone, like Bierhoff who knew how to transform and adapt to a bigger and more demanding environment. But if this environment is constantly polluted by an inefficient and plan less management, beginner or poor coaches with small ideas, with mentally problematic players - well then it certainly gives you a knock or two down.

Juventus are a top club. Who gives a sh*t what offers come from England or Spain! Unlike Tevez, Pogba is a project for them, the kind of talent you build your team around. And it's not like they're in desperate need for money. If offers of +100M come though, who wouldn't accept? You could sign 3-4 top players and rebuild your team from scratch, like they did after they sold Zidane.

It's a win-win situation for them. Hence, why they kept him instead of Vidal.

I'm not sure you understand this correctly. You keep giving examples from the past, which is sadly brutally different then the Serie A present.

Firstly, Juventus has a habit of selling their best players for the right prize. They did this countless times in the past, Baggio, Zidane and Inzaghi are names that come to mind quickly. But this was a different time. When they sold Zidane, they already had self-sustainable team - and they invested into 3-4 top players.

Nowadays you cannot just raid Parma or Lazio like Juventus did in the past and snatch up world class players like Buffon, Thuram, Cannavaro, Nedved, etc. Because pretty much none of the Serie A players is world class.

Secondly, I think you underestimate the shining attractiveness of Spain and England. Nowadays everyone wants to prove himself there. It's a set of different components that make these destinations more desirable: competitiveness at the biggest level, big derbies and big opponents (not just clubs, but players as well), media focus, etc. All these components go in favor of England and Spain right now.

That being said, I don't see much options for Juventus this way or the other. Pogba will soon outgrow them, if not by merit then by pure media overrating. He'll end up in England or more probably Spain one way or the other. The same will happen to any player who makes more then just good in Italy nowadays.

[Ry4n]

Don't have high hopes for the derby but its a derby , so i hope its the anything can happen vibe..

2-1 either way. or draw

[han2503]

Why do I have the feeling Inter might actually be serious title contenders this season?

They've quietly done well in the window, have two wins from two, and just seem like they're well-managed and nicely balanced.

I think, from absolutely nowhere, they might just be the ones to watch out for this season, and not Juve.

Nah

Mancini basically wanted all the creative players out and brought in physical players instead. From a midfield I was envious of just a month ago to this... Ours is probably on a par with theirs now. Selling Kovacic and Hernanes (to a direct rival at that) was just stupid.

Sure they have creative forwards, but you can't rely simply on that. Especially when Jovetic doesn't have a great track record with injuries.

And as x-off pointed out, they have been far from convincing in their opening games. Especially when they had a relatively easy start compared to the other contenders for those places

And I still think Juve will win it in the end. I don't really see any solid competition for them

Oh but he is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) No one is worth 100m, and even if the few that are, are the types that have a more direct bearing on match results, instead of the usually passive work Pogba puts in as a midfielder. He is a very good player, though, but the fact that some rate him much higher than what he has delivered so far, on potential that is to say, means that he is overrated.

At least right now. If he keeps on improving and imposing himself, then yes, the hype will be justified. And that's what I'm interested in finding out. Point being, you can be really good and overrated at the same time. Or great and underrated.

I'm not even thinking of bringing transfer fees into this. Those have been way over inflated years ago and no player is worth that much, not even Messi imo.

I just don't think he's overrated as a player in the most basic sense here. Like I said, only Verratti comes close to him in that age range and level of talent

[acid911]

I'm not even thinking of bringing transfer fees into this. Those have been way over inflated years ago and no player is worth that much, not even Messi imo.

I just don't think he's overrated as a player in the most basic sense here. Like I said, only Verratti comes close to him in that age range and level of talent

If you put it that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif)

[Danny]

Nah

Mancini basically wanted all the creative players out and brought in physical players instead. From a midfield I was envious of just a month ago to this... Ours is probably on a par with theirs now. Selling Kovacic and Hernanes (to a direct rival at that) was just stupid.

Sure they have creative forwards, but you can't rely simply on that. Especially when Jovetic doesn't have a great track record with injuries.

And as x-off pointed out, they have been far from convincing in their opening games. Especially when they had a relatively easy start compared to the other contenders for those places

And I still think Juve will win it in the end. I don't really see any solid competition for them

Kondogbia is better than any player in our midfield. Including De Jong. The guy is a colossus. You tried to convince me he was far better than Berto and I thought they were comparable. I was wrong - Kondogbia is on a different planet to anyone in our midfield.

PS they've replaced Hernanes with Ljajic. Couple of MOTMs last season, 90% passing rate (Hernanes with 83%). Not bad.

I think they're in a stronger position than us and have a balance that we just don't have.

[Fillipo Simone]

My God how fast you are in giving these remarks. All I have to say right now...

[Danny]

My God how fast you are in giving these remarks. All I have to say right now...

Well what I said was factual. With a strong hint of opinion. What the others said was purely opinion.

I'd say we all have entitlement to express whatever we all like though, whenever we like?!

[Fillipo Simone]

Sure, nobody said anything here to make you think otherwise.

[Danny]

Sure, nobody said anything here to make you think otherwise.

You just appeared to be condemning those posts?

[Fillipo Simone]

You just appeared to be condemning those posts?

Certainly not. It's just that I tend to wait and evaluate things at a slower rate, and with less defined terms. That's all man (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[X-Offender]

I was skeptical about Inter's sale of Kovacic and Hernanes, but when you think about it, they have about the right players for Mancini's 4-2-3-1/4-4-2:

Brozovic - Kondogbia
Perisic - Jovetic - Ljajic
Icardi

Same argument about Juve:

Pogba - Marchisio
Cuadrado - Hernanes - Dybala
Mandzukic

Instead, we have f*ck all.

#GallianiLeave

[acid911]

Fudger just couldn't fork 11m for Hernanes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[X-Offender]

Fudger just couldn't fork 11m for Hernanes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

But we could fork 20M for Bertolacci. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)