[Fillipo Simone]

New transfer thread here. Hopefully a different summer for us.

[Danny]

Baselli will be the first arrival in June. That was sealed today I believe.

[William405]

Baselli will be the first arrival in June. That was sealed today I believe.

Yep, seems like he's very excited to join us. No idea why.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

So, I'm usually detesting those "get rid of..." lists, but now I'm interested. Do you guys think we need a complete overhaul? Who would you let go or sell coming next season?

[d'Arc.LP]

So, I'm usually detesting those "get rid of..." lists, but now I'm interested. Do you guys think we need a complete overhaul? Who would you let go or sell coming next season?

I'd get rid of:

INZAGHI
Abbiati
Mexes
Zapata
Zaccardo
Albertazzi
Armero
Muntari
Honda and
Pazzini

And I'd try to build the team around:
A coach like Spalleti
Diego Lopez
Abate
Alex
De Sciglio
De Jong (if he extends his contract with us)
Bonaventura
Van Ginkel (if by some miracle we sign him permanently)
Mastour
Destro
Menez and/or El Shaarawy (I still think that with the proper coaching he can become world class player).

And then there are players that I'd be pleased to have as backups, such as:
Gabriel/Agazzi
Rami/Zabaletta/Bochetti
Antonelli
Montolivo/Poli/Suso
Cerci/Niang.

But probably we're going to stick with the players that I would like to get rid of, sell/let go two or three players from those that we should be builinding our team around of to balance the finances and use the players from the third list as first team players. Which means that we're going to contuniue sucking bad until we find somehow players like Nesta, Maldini, Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka and Sheva. But I don't see that happening, actually I don't think players like them exist anymore.

This post has been edited by d'Arc.LP: Feb 11 2015, 12:50 PM

[Danny]

Agree with a lot of that post. Not all, but a lot.

[X-Offender]

Let's see... We currently have 31 players in our roster. Next season this number shouldn't exceed 25. Given our current players and requirements, this is how I'd go about it:

OUT
Muntari
Mexes
Honda
Albertazzi
Essien
Bocchetti
Van Ginkel
Bonera
Armero
Zaccardo

That leaves us with 21 players. We desperately need one quality CB to couple with Alex and one playmaker CM. Depending on what formation we play, our priorities might change, but I'd like to see something like this:

Lopez
Abate - Alex - CB - MDS
CM - NDJ
Cerci - Suso - Menez
Destro

SUBS
Abbiati
Agazzi
Zapata
Paletta
Rami
Antonelli
Poli
Montolivo
Bonaventura
El Shaarawy
Mastour
Pazzini

[Fillipo Simone]

Hmh, I must say, I disagree with many things. Let's see:

1) Abate and de Jong. It's still questionable is the two will sign for us or go away for free. Abate is especially important, since he's a Primavera player.

2) Players who are too good to sit on the bench/probably wouldn't agree with the bench position but are somehow inadequate or not good enough for our first XI.

3) Players who are either sub-par or simply too old/useless.

All in all this would mean parting was with:

Agazzi (we need a younger 3rd string keeper)
Mexès
Rami
Zapata
Zaccardo
Essien
Muntari
van Ginkel (obviously)
Armero

Also questionable would be Pazzini, SES, Monto, Bonera and Cerci. For different reasons.

I'd keep Bonera as a versatile backup option which would be cheap and better then all other alternations (just think of the various backups we had in recent years, all the Mesbahs and Constants).

Pazzini will be out of contract and will most probably leave. If he takes a wage-cut and accepts a backup role, I'd let him stay (I think he's finally coming back to a routine).

SES should really get another chance with a more seasoned coach. Experience could guide him through this rough period. But if he fails to gradually become what is expected out of him, I'd rather sell him sooner then later.

Montolivo is a big question for me. He's not getting any younger and I seriously doubt his contribution to our gameplan is that important. But, I'd still give him the benefit of a doubt and one more season. Then we should decide.

Cerci showed so far very little to nothing. He seems out of shape and not really into being at a club like Milan. I suppose he's the ideal Parma/Bologna/Torino type of player, kind of Beppe Signori or Enrico Chiesa.

Next question: has anyone a list of the top players who'll be out of contract this summer? I think this should be a start for us.

[Rossoneri7]

Don't think we have any business referring to potential incoming players as top class. Top class players want CL football, want to win trophies and want heavy salary outlays.

For the second year running we are a midtable team. The club's history and name no-longer attracts top players.

That said, think our team is descent enough to challenge for an EL birth. The coach needs time and he should be given that time.

As for the summer transfer window; nothing exciting is going to happen. Just a bunch of nobodies leaving and a bunch of nobodies incoming.

[Danny]

The coach needs time and he should be given that time.

Nice troll.

[Fillipo Simone]

Don't think we have any business referring to potential incoming players as top class. Top class players want CL football, want to win trophies and want heavy salary outlays.

Surely, I meant top players out of the players who's contract is running out. Per se those players ain't top class. I meant players like Menez and Alex, nice additions.

For the second year running we are a midtable team. The club's history and name no-longer attracts top players.

So nothing has to change or what? How do you think we got to this situation?

[Fillipo Simone]

Nice troll.

Oh come on, let's talk normal.

[Danny]

Oh come on, let's talk normal.

I was. Anyone Milan fan who thinks Pippo needs and should be given time is clearly trolling given apparently 8 months wasn't enough already.

[Fillipo Simone]

I was. Anyone Milan fan who thinks Pippo needs and should be given time is clearly trolling given apparently 8 months wasn't enough already.

But I think R7 was referring to the next season. For the new coach, no?

Anyhow, different opinions is what makes a forum interesting. We should respect and encourage such posting, because otherwise this forum will (already has to an extent) turn into a numb and grey place with dominant opinions.

[Forza Milan!]

I was. Anyone Milan fan who thinks Pippo needs and should be given time is clearly trolling given apparently 8 months wasn't enough already.

Agreed. If there was some indication that Pippo has a clue or that he is learning from his mistakes, I would be inclined to give him more time. But I have not seen that. We need a real coach, we really do.

So EL is the best we should hope for now. Really?

[Danny]

But I think R7 was referring to the next season. For the new coach, no?

Nope, he was referring to Pippo. Present tense.

Anyhow, different opinions is what makes a forum interesting. We should respect and encourage such posting, because otherwise this forum will (already has to an extent) turn into a numb and grey place with dominant opinions.

Then my opinion his comment was a troll is my 'different' opinion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) surely I am equally entitled to castigate his opinion as he is to express it?

[Danny]

Agreed. If there was some indication that Pippo has a clue or that he is learning from his mistakes, I would be inclined to give him more time. But I have not seen that. We need a real coach, we really do.

So EL is the best we should hope for now. Really?

We've not a hope in hell of an UEL spot.

Next season will be one without Europe. Again.

Well, it will if we retain Pippo.

[Rossoneri7]

Surely, I meant top players out of the players who's contract is running out. Per se those players ain't top class. I meant players like Menez and Alex, nice additions.


So nothing has to change or what? How do you think we got to this situation?

I know which players you meant. It just pains me to think of how low we are, that once we used to lure Robaldinho or Van Basten.

Change? I think we have had enough changes. Stability and time is what we need. Shuffling coaches and players every 6 months isn't the answer. I truely believe we need to give Inzaghi, his ideas and his team time and continuity.

Like now Milan are to consider selling DS, not to raise funds to buy better players. But to fill the hole left by no European football (be that el or cl).

And next season if we do not get Europe, it will be even more difficult. With the scarce wuality on our roaster shedding even thinner.

Not the popularist of opinions, but its an origional opinion. My opinion.

[X-Offender]

DS isn't worth sh*t right now.

[Danny]

DS isn't worth sh*t right now.

Antonelli is 100% better than him right now. We're far better served with Luca starting in that slot for the indefinite future.

[han2503]

Antonelli is 100% better than him right now. We're far better served with Luca starting in that slot for the indefinite future.

Can't see how you'd make up your mind on that one after just one game tbh...

He did relatively well vs Juve but this is a guy who played one game for us before we shipped him off and could barely cut it at Genoa. Let's not count our chicken before they hatch

As for the players in general, I'm personally hesitant to say that we need an overhaul at this point. How many times are we going to turn this entire squad over and replace average players with even more average ones?

The winter mercato was a clear example of this. We've loaded down our squad with even more average players. The signings in defence are clear examples of this, Bocchetti and Paletta perfectly epitomise what is wrong with this management's strategy.

We spend months trying to get Zaccardo off the books, fail at it so why not sign 3 other players who are round abouts the same level? Let's also renew Bonera's contract while we're at it.

But in the mean time, let's let Abate's and De Jong's contracts run down, because hey, as long as we have Muntari and "can do it all" Bonera, who needs those 2?

There are some obvious names that should definitely be let go this summer, but for me. I'd rather see those name go and sign one or 2 good players (not even going to mention great or top class in this discussion, we couldn't afford that category of players a long time ago) and remove some of the real dead weight in the team. We don't need to make a lot of signings. We have a relatively decent squad for Serie A standards.

One really good CM being top priority and a CB being second priority and we should be done. I'm more concerned at the sheer number of bodies we have in the squad that don't contribute much, if at all. That do nothing but weigh down out wage bill.

Having said all this, the biggest priority on our management's to-do list should be to get in a proper coach, before signing or selling anyone, this is something that has to finally be addressed. We haven't had a proper coach since Carlo and we cannot move forward like this, because no matter who we sign, we will fail anyway if we don't have the right man for the coaching job

[X-Offender]

Amen.

[Danny]

Can't see how you'd make up your mind on that one after just one game tbh...

I just did.

He did relatively well vs Juve

Unlike anyone else.

Case closed.

[han2503]

I just did.



Unlike anyone else.

Case closed.

Can't wait until he has that one bad game and you suddenly turn on him...

His debut was encouraging, but nothing more than that. He's a very average player, just like the majority of our squad.

[Danny]

Can't wait until he has that one bad game and you suddenly turn on him...

You actively want a Milan player to have a poor match in order to 'prove a point'?

His debut was encouraging, but nothing more than that. He's a very average player, just like the majority of our squad.

Encouraging debut - showed what he was capable of in a preview. Ergo he's a better option right now than the trash that is MDS these days.

[han2503]

You actively want a Milan player to have a poor match in order to 'prove a point'?



Encouraging debut - showed what he was capable of in a preview. Ergo he's a better option right now than the trash that is MDS these days.

Nope, just can't wait until you have a fit about him, because I'm expecting it, this isn't about the player, but how you swing from one positive opinion about a player to the other complete opposite end of the spectrum. Can't he just be someone decent who we can use when our first choice isn't available?

I'd still take DS over him anyway, one decent game does not change who Antonelli is, just like one decent game for Zaccardo doesn't mean I suddenly want him to be the starter

[X-Offender]

Let's go back to what I wrote previously. We have 31 players, currently. Serie A from next season does not allow a roster that exceeds 25 players. In this context, I think we should have:

3 GKs
4-5 CBs
3 FBs (one of which can play both sides, i.e. MDS)
5-6 DMs/CMs
4-5 AMs/wingers
2 CFs

That's 22-24 players. We have to get rid of a lot of dead weight this summer, and that's going to be a challenge considering our excess baggage in addition to the various loan spells we have circulating here and there.

In terms of goalies I think we're fit.

In terms of CBs, the only one I would keep without a doubt is Alex (and the guy will be 33). Everyone else is a question mark.

In terms of mids, we have to do everything in our power to keep De Jong. The guy is crucial for us. You can't find someone as good as him for his role nowadays without spending +15 million. The others that need to be confirmed are Poli and Bonaventura. Montolivo I don't give two sh*ts about, but he's the team captain and I can't see us parting ways at this point. If he accepts a substitute role I wouldn't mind. MVG will return to Chelsea so let's forget about him. The others (Essien, Muntari, even Honda) I don't want them near this team.

In terms of AMs/wingers, Menez, Suso, Cerci, El Shaaraway and Mastour are good enough. You can throw Bona in there as well since he's a jolly and can play anywhere.

Destro and someone else for sub CF.

What we truly need are a top quality CB and especially a top quality CM. I would die for Witsel, he'd be beyond perfect. We need to loosen our string a bit this summer and make these signings, otherwise we're looking at another mediocre season.

Oh, and obviously we need a capable coach. That's out of the question.

[Danny]

Nope, just can't wait until you have a fit about him, because I'm expecting it, this isn't about the player, but how you swing from one positive opinion about a player to the other complete opposite end of the spectrum. Can't he just be someone decent who we can use when our first choice isn't available?

Our first choice is currently horrendous. Antonelli impressed me v Juve, in the way Bocchetti did not v Parma.

Two deputies, both given a chance - and one did far better than the other, while the senior first choice is wildly out of form. Remember I whined about Armero being given a chance in the face of MDS being so poor? Well he too turned out awful, but I stand entirely by my desire to see someone else (whoever that was) given a chance. Just so happens we now have Antonelli who's managed to impress us all to a degree (more than MDS has this season) on his sole appearance so given the start, why change it?

If Antonelli has a shocker v Empoli, which I doubt, then we really are in the crapper because then all of Bocchetti, Armero, and Antonelli will be in poor form while MDS is miles away from being fit.

I'd still take DS over him anyway, one decent game does not change who Antonelli is, just like one decent game for Zaccardo doesn't mean I suddenly want him to be the starter

Difference with Zac is Abate is an all-round better RB who's rarely out of form. MDS is rarely in form.

[Danny]

3 FBs X? Right now if we went by that, Abate and MDS aren't available, leaving only one FB.

You need at least four, always.

IMO you always need two in every position plus a few extra in general for emergencies. That would make up the 25.

[Forza Milan!]

Looks like Milan may be sold (link).

A couple of years ago I would have been concerned, as you never know what will happen with the new owners. However, at this point I am ready for a change. Anything has to be better than where we seem to be headed.

Edit: Berlusconi says this is not true

This post has been edited by Forza Milan!: Feb 14 2015, 03:24 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

Let's go back to what I wrote previously. We have 31 players, currently. Serie A from next season does not allow a roster that exceeds 25 players. In this context, I think we should have:

3 GKs
4-5 CBs
3 FBs (one of which can play both sides, i.e. MDS)
5-6 DMs/CMs
4-5 AMs/wingers
2 CFs

That's 22-24 players. We have to get rid of a lot of dead weight this summer, and that's going to be a challenge considering our excess baggage in addition to the various loan spells we have circulating here and there.

In terms of goalies I think we're fit.

In terms of CBs, the only one I would keep without a doubt is Alex (and the guy will be 33). Everyone else is a question mark.

In terms of mids, we have to do everything in our power to keep De Jong. The guy is crucial for us. You can't find someone as good as him for his role nowadays without spending +15 million. The others that need to be confirmed are Poli and Bonaventura. Montolivo I don't give two sh*ts about, but he's the team captain and I can't see us parting ways at this point. If he accepts a substitute role I wouldn't mind. MVG will return to Chelsea so let's forget about him. The others (Essien, Muntari, even Honda) I don't want them near this team.

We agree mostly. But Danny has a point, 3 FBs has absolutely no sense. Maybe if the 5th CB is Bonera, who can cover both flanks. But we definitively need 4 FBs. I'd also like if Milan would drop the winger system and build on our previous tactical formations. None of the mentioned players is truly a good winger bar Cerci maybe.

We'll be keeping Honda for the sake of our Asian business.

Our first choice is currently horrendous. Antonelli impressed me v Juve, in the way Bocchetti did not v Parma.

Two deputies, both given a chance - and one did far better than the other, while the senior first choice is wildly out of form. Remember I whined about Armero being given a chance in the face of MDS being so poor? Well he too turned out awful, but I stand entirely by my desire to see someone else (whoever that was) given a chance. Just so happens we now have Antonelli who's managed to impress us all to a degree (more than MDS has this season) on his sole appearance so given the start, why change it?

If Antonelli has a shocker v Empoli, which I doubt, then we really are in the crapper because then all of Bocchetti, Armero, and Antonelli will be in poor form while MDS is miles away from being fit.

My God are you fast too judge. One game means nothing. As Han said, there's probably a reason why Antonelli got shipped off years earlier while Milan didn't have a solid LB as well (ever since Maldini/Serginho).

As for MDS, he's very young. He needs time and patience to become a good performer. Look at Abate; most of us criticized him for years, but he turned out into one of our best performers: how? By sheer determination and playing time. We have one of the best fullbacks in history with Tasso, I'm positive he'll do his thing and help MDS develop. We've gotta give MDS more time and space.

And it's not like there's a line of good LB's waiting. Look at the broader situation. Most clubs hold on to routine's and veterans, and only rare teams have someone fresh, young and already great. And we really don't need another Mesbah, Constant or Armero.

[X-Offender]

I'd like to think of the 4 FB as someone from the CBs who can cover that position in cases of emergencies, like Rami or Bonera.

[Danny]

My God are you fast too judge.

Yes I am.

One game means nothing.

Give me an example of a really bad debut which got turned around the player ended up great.

While you're at it, give me an example of a brilliant debut but the player ended up a shambles.

As Han said, there's probably a reason why Antonelli got shipped off years earlier while Milan didn't have a solid LB as well (ever since Maldini/Serginho).

Guess we're glad guys like Tomasson, KJH, and Gourcuff weren't given a chance here either then.

As for MDS, he's very young. He needs time and patience to become a good performer. Look at Abate; most of us criticized him for years,

Only the short-sighted ones. I never did.

but he turned out into one of our best performers: how?

Because he always was. He just matured and eventually fans learned of his value.

By sheer determination and playing time. We have one of the best fullbacks in history with Tasso, I'm positive he'll do his thing and help MDS develop. We've gotta give MDS more time and space.

I didn't say we shouldn't? I just said, pound for pound, right now Antonelli is our best option at LB and worth giving a chance to.

Where you saw 'let's give up on MDS completely' I'm less sure.

And it's not like there's a line of good LB's waiting. Look at the broader situation. Most clubs hold on to routine's and veterans, and only rare teams have someone fresh, young and already great. And we really don't need another Mesbah, Constant or Armero.

No, but we do need a performer right now in as many slots as possible. Fact is MDS, injury notwithstanding, isn't in form and hasn't been for a long long time. You can't just keep selecting a player when his poor form will cost you goals.

[han2503]

While you're at it, give me an example of a brilliant debut but the player ended up a shambles.

Yoann Gourcuff

[han2503]

Let's go back to what I wrote previously. We have 31 players, currently. Serie A from next season does not allow a roster that exceeds 25 players. In this context, I think we should have:

3 GKs
4-5 CBs
3 FBs (one of which can play both sides, i.e. MDS)
5-6 DMs/CMs
4-5 AMs/wingers
2 CFs

That's 22-24 players. We have to get rid of a lot of dead weight this summer, and that's going to be a challenge considering our excess baggage in addition to the various loan spells we have circulating here and there.

In terms of goalies I think we're fit.

In terms of CBs, the only one I would keep without a doubt is Alex (and the guy will be 33). Everyone else is a question mark.

In terms of mids, we have to do everything in our power to keep De Jong. The guy is crucial for us. You can't find someone as good as him for his role nowadays without spending +15 million. The others that need to be confirmed are Poli and Bonaventura. Montolivo I don't give two sh*ts about, but he's the team captain and I can't see us parting ways at this point. If he accepts a substitute role I wouldn't mind. MVG will return to Chelsea so let's forget about him. The others (Essien, Muntari, even Honda) I don't want them near this team.

In terms of AMs/wingers, Menez, Suso, Cerci, El Shaaraway and Mastour are good enough. You can throw Bona in there as well since he's a jolly and can play anywhere.

Destro and someone else for sub CF.

What we truly need are a top quality CB and especially a top quality CM. I would die for Witsel, he'd be beyond perfect. We need to loosen our string a bit this summer and make these signings, otherwise we're looking at another mediocre season.

Oh, and obviously we need a capable coach. That's out of the question.

Totally agree with this x-off

Abate, also being another crucial name that we must confirm next season, but it seems like the management is in no rush to renew either his or De Jong's contracts

[han2503]

Our first choice is currently horrendous. Antonelli impressed me v Juve, in the way Bocchetti did not v Parma.

Two deputies, both given a chance - and one did far better than the other, while the senior first choice is wildly out of form. Remember I whined about Armero being given a chance in the face of MDS being so poor? Well he too turned out awful, but I stand entirely by my desire to see someone else (whoever that was) given a chance. Just so happens we now have Antonelli who's managed to impress us all to a degree (more than MDS has this season) on his sole appearance so given the start, why change it?

If Antonelli has a shocker v Empoli, which I doubt, then we really are in the crapper because then all of Bocchetti, Armero, and Antonelli will be in poor form while MDS is miles away from being fit.



Difference with Zac is Abate is an all-round better RB who's rarely out of form. MDS is rarely in form.

Like I said, Antonelli was encouraging, but he also made a mistake on the first goal from Tevez imo. The guy is, as far as I can see, a good back up, better than Armero. But no, I still don't want to see him start ahead of DS if DS is fit.

One game against Juve does not a good player make. He could easily step out tomorrow and have a nightmare showing, we've seen this happen too many times to count now.

Same goes for Bocchetti tbh, one game, playing at LB, for me does not show whether he's good to be a back up or not. It's simply not enough to judge. I need to at least watch him a couple more time at CB before I completely throw him to the sharks and say the guy is cr@p

[Danny]

Yoann Gourcuff

He didn't end up a shambles. He ended up totally underused. And wasted. And then sold.

[X-Offender]

Ricardo Oliveira?

[Danny]

Ricardo Oliveira?

Great for the first 30 minutes of his debut, then shite by the mid-second half.

But he is the closest to an example of such a situation I can think of. I remember it well - it was at San Siro v Lazio, and we'd just sold Sheva. And Oli looked great for that first half, but then ran out of steam second half and was a dismal failure every match afterwords.

[Fillipo Simone]

Give me an example of a really bad debut which got turned around the player ended up great.

Nelson Dida.

While you're at it, give me an example of a brilliant debut but the player ended up a shambles.

Thomas Locatelli debuted in a Coppa game with a good performance and a goal on top of it. Thomas who? Andre Cruz had a good season start with us. Ibrahim Ba in his first couple of games. Jens Lehman, starting with a great debut and then gradually making one (big) mistake after another in the coming few matches. Gianni Comandini scoring a goal and making a good figure in his debut against Dinamo Zagreb. I can go on and on...

Oliveira is also a good example, don't play that partially good card. He had a very good debut, scoring and making himself present. Did Antonelli play all 90 minutes on the same dynamic and overall good level? I don't think so.

Guess we're glad guys like Tomasson, KJH, and Gourcuff weren't given a chance here either then.

What does this have to do with anything? Tomasson played in the era of Shevchenko, Inzaghi, Kaka, Crespo...naturally it was hard for him to get any playing time. Gourcuff wasn't mentally right with Milan and Ancelotti noticed this early on. Huntelaar? Don't get me even started...mispositioned, misused, also kind of a small club striker.

But I didn't say all players that Milan shipped off were bad. I only said that it sure means something if the left side is a problem for years and you never once consider actually bringing back the guy you own.

Only the short-sighted ones. I never did.

Well good for you. Because Abate was really bad in his first days here.

Because he always was. He just matured and eventually fans learned of his value.

Completely disagree.

I didn't say we shouldn't? I just said, pound for pound, right now Antonelli is our best option at LB and worth giving a chance to.

With this I agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No, but we do need a performer right now in as many slots as possible. Fact is MDS, injury notwithstanding, isn't in form and hasn't been for a long long time. You can't just keep selecting a player when his poor form will cost you goals.

What I'm saying is, one game is simply put not enough to mark Antonelli as "best" or "in form" or anything.

[han2503]

He didn't end up a shambles. He ended up totally underused. And wasted. And then sold.

A few years ago I would have agreed, but having watched his career unfold, I'm going to have to disagree, the guy was/is weak and having the players we did back then he would have needed a strong character to break through, Kaka had that, and pushed Rui Costa out of the side and into a permanent position of warming the bench

[nuh]

Great for the first 30 minutes of his debut, then shite by the mid-second half.

But he is the closest to an example of such a situation I can think of. I remember it well - it was at San Siro v Lazio, and we'd just sold Sheva. And Oli looked great for that first half, but then ran out of steam second half and was a dismal failure every match afterwords.

He didn't even start that game...he came off the bench to score

[Danny]

He didn't even start that game...he came off the bench to score

Was I thinking of the second match...yes, you're right. Amazing how a decade can alter a memory.

[Danny]

With this I agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'll do what is best and suggest we run with this part (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[X-Offender]

According to De Telegraaf, De Jong has already told the club he won't renew his contract and will leave at the end of the season, probably to ManU.

What a huge loss it will be... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Danny]

According to De Telegraaf, De Jong has already told the club he won't renew his contract and will leave at the end of the season, probably to ManU.

What a huge loss it will be... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Thoroughly expected and I'm only stunned we kept him this long.

He goes with my best wishes.

He's been our best overall player for two+ years now, and he deserves to be in the UCL. That said, Man Utd are no great shakes either but they're better than us. I wouldn't be shocked though if he goes to a UCL team. By then, that might admittedly be Utd.

[X-Offender]

We 39 players in total under contract (including loans). According to Tuttosport, the following players will surely not be part of the team next season:

Essien
Van Ginkel
De Jong
Albertazzi
Muntari
Mexes
Zaccardo
Zapata
Pazzini
Robinho
Nocerino
Birsa

Bonera, Rami, Matri, Saponara, El Shaarawy, Niang, Suso, Petagna and Niang are still uncertain.

[Danny]

We 39 players in total under contract (including loans). According to Tuttosport, the following players will surely not be part of the team next season:

Essien
Van Ginkel
De Jong
Albertazzi
Muntari
Mexes
Zaccardo
Zapata
Pazzini
Robinho
Nocerino
Birsa

Bonera, Rami, Matri, Saponara, El Shaarawy, Niang, Suso, Petagna and Niang are still uncertain.

Only two players of this entire group I'd certainly keep are Zapata and Niang (and Niang 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). Suso is being mistreated as bad as MvG was (still like to see him given a chance himself but he's not a Pippo pal). Signed for us for four years yet being totally ignored. I wasn't hugely in favour of the signing but he's here and he deserves a shot - can't be worse than the shite out there. Unless he's Bocchetti, of course.

But I know Zaps is a 'me' (and perhaps you thing X) thing and truth is Pippo's never going to partner him with Alex so that's a busted flush.

Rest can all go happily. Pity they're not taking Monto & Honda with them.

[X-Offender]

I'd definitely keep Zapata but not as starter, and I'm not sure if he'll be happy with that. In most interviews he keeps stating that he wants to play, and I just don't think he's good enough to be a starter. We need someone else of quality to partner alongside Alex, preferably left-footed.

[Danny]

I'd definitely keep Zapata but not as starter, and I'm not sure if he'll be happy with that. In most interviews he keeps stating that he wants to play, and I just don't think he's good enough to be a starter. We need someone else of quality to partner alongside Alex, preferably left-footed.

Alex is yer alpha defender, the leader, the slower one, strong, positionally excellent, collosal in the air and not scared to put his body where it hurts.

He needs a decent foil to fill the attributes he doesn't have - pace, last-ditch blocking, filling in when he's out of position, height. Zapata is the best one of the lot we have for that task - we both agree the two of them are the best partnership we have. The odd thing, you say he's not good enough to be a starter, yet he clearly was in the CL alongside Mexes two seasons ago. Funny though, I would tentatively agree that he isn't good enough to start overall, but the irony is he's still the best of the options we have to partner Alex.

[X-Offender]

In terms of what we have, yes, he's the ideal partner to Alex. But I'm speaking about next season, we need a jump in quality in defense and midfield, so a quick, capable CB (better than Zapata) to partner Alex and a playmaker (better than Montolivo) are what we truly, desperately lack.

[Danny]

Unless Silvio sells up, or we get Conte (or any top class manager) you can forget about aspirations for next season.

[Fillipo Simone]

I'm probably the only one who's not that disappointed with de Jong leaving. Don't get me wrong, and a perfect team he's the perfect DM - that is, when you have various young talents, Sneijders and van der Vaarts doing the creating. But at Milan his limitation came to an evident spot. We don't need players like him in our current situation.

[Danny]

I'm less gutted and more resigned. That would sum me up. I feel like every window we've kept him since summer 2013 has been a bonus.

[X-Offender]

With De Jong leaving Monto needs to step up and become our main anchor. That's how I feel about it.

[Fillipo Simone]

Yeah, like that's really gonna happen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Danny]

Yeah, like that's really gonna happen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Monto can't perform with De Jong (or anyone else), he'll just be even worse on his 'own'.

Horrendous player who's been living off his name for far too long.

[han2503]

Monto can't perform with De Jong (or anyone else), he'll just be even worse on his 'own'.

Horrendous player who's been living off his name for far too long.

What name? It's not like he inherited Maldini or Baresi...


Agreed x-off. I think Monto is better in front of the defence rather than roaming about looking clueless. And agreed with Filippo as well, we need more creativity and dynamism in our midfield.

It can't be like in the past, where one players did the destroying, the others the creating. We need everyone to pitch in on both sides of the ball. Bonaventura is the only player who imo does this consistently but is mostly wasted by being played as an attacking winger/borderline forward by Pippo and never utilised where he'd truly be useful, in midfield. Poli tries, but I feel like there's something missing with him, Van Ginkel could have worked, but was never really given the opportunity and Monto has plummeted since the leg fracture from what was already a disappointing year for him. The Muntaris, Essiens. They're just useless to our cause and make more harm than good when they're playing.

For next season, I really hope we can focus on someone like Witsel or Gundogan, these are the types of players who are dynamic and sort of affordable and we can maybe lure them in. But those are the types of players that ambitious clubs go after, and sadly these days, that's not us.

So expect more random signings and contract extensions to the likes of Muntari and Bonera.

And the only frustration I feel about De Jong at this point is that we could have sold him for some decent money last summer but again, Galliani's impeccable business sense prevails here

[Danny]

When we signed him he was the 'great' (?) Monto, Italian international and Fiorentina captain. He was a big deal when we signed him.

He's now complete shash, but still plays when fit.

[han2503]

When we signed him he was the 'great' (?) Monto, Italian international and Fiorentina captain. He was a big deal when we signed him.

He's now complete shash, but still plays when fit.

Nah, we always knew what he was, he was never "great". He's always been a good player imo. He was good throughout his years at Fiorentina and played his way into the national team while he was playing for us, he wasn't a regular name in the Azzurri squad before that.

It was mostly a big deal because we got him for nothing. And it p!ssed Fiorentina off to no end

Let's not forget that Monto went through a leg fracture this summer. Some players simply never recover fully from those injuries, look at players like Wilshire, who took years, not months to recover from his.

I personally didn't even expect him to be part of the squad this season because it takes so long for players to recover fully from that kind of injury plus having to get a surgery for it.

[Danny]

He was cr*p before injury too though.

I'd say that form is more destroyed by ACL and other muscle injuries than bone breaks. Falcao is the prime example. What he could have been if not for ACL.

Now he's not even rubbish and when a year ago I'd have sold my late mother's grave for land to have us sign him, now I would totally object if he came near. And I am, because I hear we're interested in him for this summer.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

[han2503]

He was cr*p before injury too though.

I'd say that form is more destroyed by ACL and other muscle injuries than bone breaks. Falcao is the prime example. What he could have been if not for ACL.

Now he's not even rubbish and when a year ago I'd have sold my late mother's grave for land to have us sign him, now I would totally object if he came near. And I am, because I hear we're interested in him for this summer.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

For some reason this made me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Yeah, he was pretty average last season, especially compared to the good first season he had.

Honestly, for me, I'm not trying to defend him here. If we had Witsel coming in this summer, I'd have no problem selling Monto, but at this point I'm trying to look at the big picture of the situation our club is in, and let's face it, it's not pretty.

Do I think Monto still has something to offer to this team as it is? Yes. That's why I say that if no one better is coming along I'd rather we try to get the best out of him that we can because I can't see us getting anyone better.

If we don't sign the CM we need for next season (which let's face it, is a big possibility), then a midfield trio of Jack, Monto playing in the holding position with a more restricted role and Poli is probably the best we can do

[Danny]

Baselli's coming! He'll save the day!

[X-Offender]

Yeah, the kid who isn't even a starter at Atalanta. Whoo-hoo!

[Fillipo Simone]

But he usually is, no? At least all the times I was watching them?

[X-Offender]

As far as I know, he's not a starter. Could be wrong.

[X-Offender]

Apparently we've signed Carlos Zambrano, 25 year old CB from Eintracht Frankfurt. Free agent, of course...

Link

[Forza Milan!]

Apparently we've signed Carlos Zambrano, 25 year old CB from Eintracht Frankfurt. Free agent, of course...

Link

The news was followed by a denial. Unclear what has actually happened.

[han2503]

Any attempt to sign another CB at this point would be ridiculous.

[Danny]

Any attempt to sign another CB at this point would be ridiculous.

Not so. Any attempt to sign another AVERAGE CB at this point would be.

We need a quality partner for Alex, and I admit Paletta and he doesn't work, as doesn't he and Mexes. Zaps does, but won't happen, so if we can get a GOOD partner then we're getting somewhere.

I know nothing of this guy though.

[Fillipo Simone]

Average? Zambrano is below average, he's horrible. Horrible singing.

[Danny]

You've emphasised my point.

[X-Offender]

He's free. Galliani will leash even on a homeless hobo if no money is involved. Fucking cheapskate, cancer of this club!

[Danny]

You say that, but who's the one who sanctions the cash? Berlu! And as commercial and financial director, his daugher Babs.

Galliani is a sneaky little two-bit liar, not denying it, but he can only work with the budget he's given.

And that's down to B&B.

[X-Offender]

Then don't sign him if he's crap! We have plenty of defenders already.

[Forza Milan!]

You say that, but who's the one who sanctions the cash? Berlu! And as commercial and financial director, his daugher Babs.

Galliani is a sneaky little two-bit liar, not denying it, but he can only work with the budget he's given.

And that's down to B&B.

Yes, the Berlus share the blame. However, the budget is in large part impacted by salaries (plus taxes we pay on these salaries). IMHO, Milan budget is inflated because of players that dray much higher salaries than they would get elsewhere, most of which we got as "parametro zero" and many of which are not that good. Think Mexes (parametro zero, arguably a good player when he does not start fights, but at a yearly cost of 4M salary + 4M taxes, all for the pleasure of having him warm the bench), Matri (this one cost us real money plus has a high salary, which I believe we are still paying), Muntari (in the worthless + high salary category), and so on.

Bottom line, our transfer policy is all messed up, and that is Galliani's making IMHO. AFAIAC we would be much better off looking for a few good players with promise (even if they cost a little money upfront). Build a team, even if it means taking some risks and possibly staying mid table for a couple of years (its not as if we are doing much better with our current "grand strategy").

[Fillipo Simone]

Btw. what's with Barbara? At one point, it looked like she's the crucial person for Milan, but nowadays you can hardly see her third, behind Berlu and Galliani.

[han2503]

Not so. Any attempt to sign another AVERAGE CB at this point would be.

We need a quality partner for Alex, and I admit Paletta and he doesn't work, as doesn't he and Mexes. Zaps does, but won't happen, so if we can get a GOOD partner then we're getting somewhere.

I know nothing of this guy though.

I guess I thought that went without saying since we all know that our range for searching out players is between the mediocre to average.

Sure we need a top CB, desperately so. Mexes is most likely out of the picture in the summer, for me that only means we're losing one decent player among the other very average ones we have. Paletta is just not good enough, he's Rami/Zapata level for me. Bocchetti, Bonera, Zaccardo, Antonelli are all below average. Sure Antonelli has had a decent start but so did Mesbah

From our current endless line of defenders, the ones I'd keep would very few and I can practically count on one hand

You say that, but who's the one who sanctions the cash? Berlu! And as commercial and financial director, his daugher Babs.

Galliani is a sneaky little two-bit liar, not denying it, but he can only work with the budget he's given.

And that's down to B&B.

Sure, that's true, but Galliani has also been the mastermind behind some epic failure moves. Which cost us money, money that could have been used much more intelligently.

And let's not go into these free agents he straps around our ankles that we have to carry for the duration of their ridiculous over priced contracts. Not to mention all the contracts extensions he handed/hands out to old players who don't contribute to the team or terrible players like Muntari who just got his contract renewed last summer for an even better pay package.

He might not be the one who's in control, but Silvio has given him free license to do as he wishes for far too long and some of the "genius" moves he's pulled off is the reason why we're in the situation we're in

Btw. what's with Barbara? At one point, it looked like she's the crucial person for Milan, but nowadays you can hardly see her third, behind Berlu and Galliani.

Well she is the one behind the new stadium project, I think she's working a lot behind the scenes nowadays since her attempt to overthrow Galliani failed.

[han2503]

Yes, the Berlus share the blame. However, the budget is in large part impacted by salaries (plus taxes we pay on these salaries). IMHO, Milan budget is inflated because of players that dray much higher salaries than they would get elsewhere, most of which we got as "parametro zero" and many of which are not that good. Think Mexes (parametro zero, arguably a good player when he does not start fights, but at a yearly cost of 4M salary + 4M taxes, all for the pleasure of having him warm the bench), Matri (this one cost us real money plus has a high salary, which I believe we are still paying), Muntari (in the worthless + high salary category), and so on.

Bottom line, our transfer policy is all messed up, and that is Galliani's making IMHO. AFAIAC we would be much better off looking for a few good players with promise (even if they cost a little money upfront). Build a team, even if it means taking some risks and possibly staying mid table for a couple of years (its not as if we are doing much better with our current "grand strategy").

Yep

[Danny]

Btw. what's with Barbara? At one point, it looked like she's the crucial person for Milan, but nowadays you can hardly see her third, behind Berlu and Galliani.

Like Han says she's basically 100% focused on Milan Arena, which is under her jurisdiction. As he also pointed out, her attempt at getting rid of Galliani failed, so with no influence over signings other than aspects of budget, she's simply not got the influence she wants.

She has the same ambitions as us fans, but hamstrung by Daddy's purse-strings and Galliani's stubbornness.

That said I am curious that she publicly fired Allegri but has said nothing about Pippo despite him being way worse.

[han2503]

Like Han says she's basically 100% focused on Milan Arena, which is under her jurisdiction. As he also pointed out, her attempt at getting rid of Galliani failed, so with no influence over signings other than aspects of budget, she's simply not got the influence she wants.

She has the same ambitions as us fans, but hamstrung by Daddy's purse-strings and Galliani's stubbornness.

That said I am curious that she publicly fired Allegri but has said nothing about Pippo despite him being way worse.

However I feel that unlike us fans her "good" intentions are only there for her own personal benefit.

She wants to turn Milan into a profitable well-run company so she can get the best amount of money possible for when the old man dies and she and her siblings sell up

[Danny]

However I feel that unlike us fans her "good" intentions are only there for her own personal benefit.

She wants to turn Milan into a profitable well-run company so she can get the best amount of money possible for when the old man dies and she and her siblings sell up

Shock horror. Heir in 'wanting to get big inheritance' scandal!

I know someone connected with Rangers, and they are more concerned in getting a big inheritance for themselves than investing that money in the club.

Money rules the world.

[X-Offender]

Bocchetti, Bonera, Zaccardo, Antonelli are all below average. Sure Antonelli has had a decent start but so did Mesbah

No Han, you can't put Antonelli on the same category as Mesbah. He's a very reliable defender, and has shown it for quite some time at Genoa.

[Danny]

Until MDS shows all the promise he did two years ago, there is no contest for the LB slot.

Antonelli has justified his selection with aplomb and is not just the best for that slot, but right now one of the team's best performers, period.

Not saying a lot, I know, but no less true.

[Forza Milan!]

Interesting article

Says our biggest problem is the midfield (no surprise there) and that changes are coming this summer (would really like to believe that, but I no longer know what to believe). Says Muntari is on his way out (would like to believe that as well). Links us with Baselli, Valdifiori, and Kedeira (not sure if I believe Kedeira, especially as his salary is supposed to be 7M, which is well beyond our self-imposed limit).

[han2503]

No Han, you can't put Antonelli on the same category as Mesbah. He's a very reliable defender, and has shown it for quite some time at Genoa.

I'm personally just not convinced, and really he did well at Genoa? They let him go for basically nothing and wasn't their starter as far as I know.

He's so far started decently. Made a few mistakes, namely on the Tevez goal imo.

I'm just not sure about him, especially long term

[X-Offender]

Interesting article

Says our biggest problem is the midfield (no surprise there) and that changes are coming this summer (would really like to believe that, but I no longer know what to believe). Says Muntari is on his way out (would like to believe that as well). Links us with Baselli, Valdifiori, and Kedeira (not sure if I believe Kedeira, especially as his salary is supposed to be 7M, which is well beyond our self-imposed limit).

Bild writes that Khedira is very close to joining Schalke... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I'd love to have the guy here. He'd be perfect as De Jong's replacement. And his contract expires this summer!

I'm personally just not convinced, and really he did well at Genoa? They let him go for basically nothing and wasn't their starter as far as I know.

He's so far started decently. Made a few mistakes, namely on the Tevez goal imo.

I'm just not sure about him, especially long term

He was Genoa's captain, man. Played 18 games for Genoa this season before joining us, all of them as starter as far as I know. And yes, he was good for them.

A few mistakes are understandable in a team where everything is a mess. He's been solid for us so far everything considered, it's unnatural to think otherwise.

[Fillipo Simone]

Skeptical about Khedira. I'd rather pass. The guy puts up every now and then a brilliant performances, but has no consistency. Also, he's very injury-prone, which isn't good for us.

[X-Offender]

Come on, if we're picky even about a player of Khedira's caliber, there's no point. Agreed about his injuries though, that could be a problem.

[Fillipo Simone]

We must be picky especially about that kind of caliber. Look, we're not Chelsea who can sign 3-4 big names and afford every other to turn into a "Shevechenko" or "Veron". We got one spot for a big name midfielder, now we should carefully think if it should be Khedira who'd be (most probably) our top earner or someone else.

[X-Offender]

Or someone else who might cost a lot. Khedira would come for free. And I don't see him as a gamble like you portray him. I rate him, always have.

[han2503]

Bild writes that Khedira is very close to joining Schalke... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I'd love to have the guy here. He'd be perfect as De Jong's replacement. And his contract expires this summer!



He was Genoa's captain, man. Played 18 games for Genoa this season before joining us, all of them as starter as far as I know. And yes, he was good for them.

A few mistakes are understandable in a team where everything is a mess. He's been solid for us so far everything considered, it's unnatural to think otherwise.

Really? Becaue a few months ago, absolutely none of us knew who he was aside from Fillipo who gave us a bit of trivia about his Milan past.

I think he's shown that he could be a dependable backup, unlike the likes of Zaccardo and Bonera.

[Danny]

Beggars, which we are, can't be choosers, and Khedira would be a wonderful signing.

[han2503]

Beggars, which we are, can't be choosers, and Khedira would be a wonderful signing.

But would he be worth it for the wage he'd demand? Especially being a free agent...

If we sign him as such, we'd have to fork out premium money, as we had to do with Mexes and Flamini, on an even grander scale because Khedira is already earning big money at Real...

Don't know, in the position we're in I can't see us being able to afford that, at least not without consequences in other areas of the pitch.

That being said, the other names we're being linked to are completely underwhelming

[X-Offender]

Anything more than €3.5 million and he can go play elsewhere. This is not Madrid. We can't pay him all that money, and if the rumors about Schalke are true, I doubt they can pay him that much either.

[Danny]

Well that makes, what, 60K a week. A world class midfielder for 60K a week?

Surely he'd rightly expect about 80K absolute minimum?

[kurtsimonw]

Khedira would be an outstanding signing. It's not like we'd feel the full hit of his wages anyway, seeing as he'd just be filling the cash void left by De Jong.

[han2503]

Khedira would be an outstanding signing. It's not like we'd feel the full hit of his wages anyway, seeing as he'd just be filling the cash void left by De Jong.

De Jong isn't paid all that much (relatively speaking), he's earning 3.5m after taxes, which of course is a lot, but in terms of what Khedira or any other top player would want it's not much.

Mexes would be the one to take a load off the bill.

But let's not forget that technically we still own Robinho and Matri and I don't know what we're still paying in terms of wages for those 2

Pazzo will also most likely be sold, so that's another big wage off the books. And I also don't know what the deal with Torres is either, he's getting paid as much as Mexes. At least that's what Gazzetta published. But now with the Torres Cerci swap I don't know how the logistics of that effect what we're currently paying either player

Btw, Muntari and Essien earn a combined amount of 10m per year before taxes. So making sure these 2 are also gone should be a priority this summer

[Forza Milan!]

What I find real frustrating this year is that all other Serie A teams (except for Juve) appear to be having their share of "off days". Would have not been that hard for us to get 3rd place (or even 2nd place).

[X-Offender]

What I find real frustrating this year is that all other Serie A teams (except for Juve) appear to be having their share of "off days". Would have not been that hard for us to get 3rd place (or even 2nd place).

Every team has been fumbling up and down, left and right, except for Juve. The competition is too scarce. We could have easily been fighting for 3rd place, or at least EL placements, but we're so bad even that seems like a delusional aspiration. Shame.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Mar 16 2015, 11:16 AM