[Fillipo Simone]

especially him (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/puke.gif)

(IMG:http://www.wsoccer.com/players/e/emmerson/emerson1.jpg)

[dst]

the 04/05 clash, liverpool sat back and defended during both leagues and chelsea had lots of chances especially late on, certainly not mourinho's fault nor benitez genius.

the 2nd clash overall was pretty even.

so i dont see how he "outclassed" mourinho

As you know it was a two-legged tie in every occasion and Mou's Chelsea failed to beat the team they have been hammering in the league ever since... it did not happen once, it happened twice... it's either that Mou did something wrong or that Rafa did something better than him. In any case, he is still considered to be successful in the CL with Chelsea (and rightly so) while Carletto beat Rafa the second time around (and both battles were finals) yet he is labeled as useless... well that to me is just plain stupid!

Didn't face any competition? No, because Mourinho did such a great job, Chelsea were so far ahead of everyone.

Failed in the CL? I really don't understand this, maybe it's just me, but I don't see losing at that stage of a competition - on the lottery of penalties on one occasion - as a failure.

Jose won at least 2 trophies every year he was at Chelsea, even with a squad worth tonnes, Avram Grant will probably won nothing. What's the difference? Jose Mourinho.

I don't agree with that. I think that both United and Arsenal were mediocre in his first two seasons there.

I did not say he failed in the CL. I said he failed to win the CL (with Chelsea).

Grant is a clown... of course he's not even in the same league with Mou. You did not read my previous post, I do consider Mou a great coach I just can't see what all this noise around his name is about...

[Zed.D]

Kalac, Kaladze, Brocchi and Emerson especially underline that theory, right?

Let's face it, Ribery is a world class player and could definitely be a star in Milan, but he lacked one factor... and none of those players you mentioned are really our stars. but anyway... that's just my opinion.

[kurtsimonw]

I don't really think any man is good looking. But Pato is a star, and he looks like crap.

[Tennie]

That's a shame. Guys who like other guys...... (sorry, couldn't resist)

[bigmacmtl]

(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[bigmacmtl]

As you know it was a two-legged tie in every occasion and Mou's Chelsea failed to beat the team they have been hammering in the league ever since... it did not happen once, it happened twice... it's either that Mou did something wrong or that Rafa did something better than him. In any case, he is still considered to be successful in the CL with Chelsea (and rightly so) while Carletto beat Rafa the second time around (and both battles were finals) yet he is labeled as useless... well that to me is just plain stupid!
I don't agree with that. I think that both United and Arsenal were mediocre in his first two seasons there.

I did not say he failed in the CL. I said he failed to win the CL (with Chelsea).

Grant is a clown... of course he's not even in the same league with Mou. You did not read my previous post, I do consider Mou a great coach I just can't see what all this noise around his name is about...

the way he's been managing the team for the past 2 years (besides a few games in the CL, which i thank him for) yes he has been terrible. 4 dms in one game..... wow no comment.

[MizNelson]

Grant is a clown... of course he's not even in the same league with Mou.

For the rest of his tenure with the club, Grant will be known as the guy whose Brewster's millions lost to little Barnsley. That's like the Yankees losing to a beer league team.

This post has been edited by MizNelson: Mar 16 2008, 11:16 PM

[Portman]

Now Mourinho's Chelsea didn't face competition. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

That's a shame. Guys who like other guys...... (sorry, couldn't resist)

(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

@Pana:

That's the last thing I'd say. That Carletto is infallible. I mean it's Carletto we're talking about...not Gila. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I already said, what his major fault was. His squad is based on 3 formations, alternating(on a good day) fluidly.

4-3-1-2;4-3-2-1;3-4-1-2;

But without his first choice fullbacks and without Pirlo in touch, yes, Milan is a bit impotent, and has to depend on magic from Kaka and Seedorf and now Pato. It almost worked on Saturday too.

Look you guys seem to think I like Carletto to the point of thinking he's an angel sent down to coach and saying anything against him is blasphemy.

I'm not. But I don't think the Roma loss on Sat was his fault. It wasn't like an Emerson own goal or anything now was it??

And yes I agree with you Pana. Mourinho is a good coach, but I don't think he's the best ever.

But for what it's worth, I do in Tennie's words get a bit 'snarky' when Carletto, Cafu, Sergio, Seedorf etc are treated with such obvious disrespect as if they were soiled diapers.

Ahh...yes the transfers...well now we can hit on Galliani and Carletto for it. But the reason I'm not over worked up over it is because it's the first time I've seen our failing being so obvious and the board still not make any changes. I'm talking about this season. The season before I'd give them calciopoli. So I'm sure there has to be some reason for that. Maybe it is like Bluesummers hypothesized, we needed to pay off our debts before the management felt it could splash out again.

And Milan is a private owned company. So they're not going to come out with their entire financial statement. So we can't say. If next season as well, we do nothing, then perhaps I shall get suspicious.

I just look on the bright side, at least I don't hear about Galliani running about looking for a re-financing over the next 5 years.

This post has been edited by Jack Sparrow: Mar 17 2008, 07:31 AM

[MizNelson]

In general, to blame Carlo for the Roma loss is ridiculous. What was he supposed to do, leave Seedorf in and have him risk further injury?

[acid911]

In general, to completely blame Carlo for the Roma loss is ridiculous. What was he supposed to do, leave Seedorf in and have him risk further injury?

I'd have to humbly disagree here on this part. He has to share some of the blame. The reason? Carlo is the team coach, not you and I or anyone here in this forum. Even if the management did not invest in some world class transfers, he should have asked for some at least 2-3 "not so world class" players, to at least strengthen the squad. And if they don't provide that, then resign. How hard is that? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He should have had the strength to stand up, because after all it's his team that's suffering (along with us, the fans). Instead he chose to lay down, and play nice, knowing full well what was at stake, and asked for a player like Emerson. I don't have anything against Emo (and Carlo), but his best days are bygone at Roma. At the bottom end, he should have graduated some more players from the youth squad, like he did with Paloschi. Not to mention, motivated his players - you can do wonders with a motivated squad. Last time I checked our team, not everyone's last name was Maldini and Kaka. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Still, it could have been much worse: We could have played in the Semis of the Champions League and lost, while at the same time squandered our chances in the league. And that would have guaranteed UEFA Cup next year. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) As of today, we've still got a chance. I just hope, like you all here, that we can pick up our mess and get things rolling in the right direction.

[dst]

the way he's been managing the team for the past 2 years (besides a few games in the CL, which i thank him for) yes he has been terrible. 4 dms in one game..... wow no comment.

I agree. His choices are some times terible... but he is considered by some to be useless which is totally absurd.

Now Mourinho's Chelsea didn't face competition.  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)   (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)   (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Maybe you will say that he made it look like there was no competition (which is partly true, he did an amazing job) but in my opinion he only faced an equally big team last season and he lost... anyway... it seems that Mou is considered a God but well, I have my own religion! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm not. But I don't think the Roma loss on Sat was his fault. It wasn't like an Emerson own goal or anything now was it??

Now this is where we disagree...

Let's say one of the two starting CB's in a game is injured or gets injured and the coach replaces him with the first choice sub... if the latter scores an own goal is it the coach's fault? Well to me it is not... what is he supposed to do, predict what will happen? He picked the best choice... it's the player's fault 100%.

So scoring an own goal does not necessarily mean the choice was wrong.

But when the coach does something that changes the flow of the game he is to blame. It's not Emerson's fault. Brocchi or any other DMF in the world would have had the same effect on the game. Introducing another defensive player was an invitation for Roma to attack us. We had control of the game up until that moment. Now I'm not saying that Carlo is the only one at fault here... the flow changed but had our players remained calm we would have won the game. We conceded two goals due to defensive mistakes. Everyone's at fault.

So in my opinion, Carlo did not lose us the game but he underpinned Roma's comeback... there was no reason for a change in tactics, in my view he made a big mistake.

If you want to analyze why he made such a mistake I'd probably say he made it cause he is under big pressure. He wanted to take all 3 points home to prove a point and that made him unable to think clear... or something like that. He knows that if he fails to reach 4th he'll be out in the summer...

[acid911]

Mourinho? Give Carletto a 120mill pounds to spend, and we'll talk.

Give me 120 million pounds to spend and we won't even have the need to talk. A class team like Milan will win day in and day out, even with someone like me at the helm. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A large bank account for transfers does not a great team make. You can spend 120 million for a player like Ronaldinho, or get 120 players for a million each. The point being that the true worth of Carlo will be evident once he leaves Milan and coaches another team - now or in the future. Only then we can gauge how much a hand he has in success of our team. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)