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> Serie A 2019/2020 season, All Milan games in Serie A

 
han2503
post Nov 3 2019, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 3 2019, 10:30 PM) *
Can we start with the final position predictions already? I say 12th.

Yeah, this is going to get even uglier. Considering we still have Juve, Napoli, Atalanta to play
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X-Offender
post Nov 3 2019, 10:53 PM
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Why did Pioli take off Paqueta? Such a dub move.

But still this goes beyond individual errors. We're just lost, mentally and tactically. This team has no shape or form, no real identity or desire to prove itself.

And what's there to be done about it? I have no answer. I don't think there is anything we can do about it. Wait for the season to be over? Then what? Pioli will be sacked, another nobody will be brought him to replace him, we'll have another mediocre signing campaign and the film will be rewinded once again.
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William405
post Nov 3 2019, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 4 2019, 12:53 AM) *
Why did Pioli take off Paqueta? Such a dub move.

But still this goes beyond individual errors. We're just lost, mentally and tactically. This team has no shape or form, no real identity or desire to prove itself.

And what's there to be done about it? I have no answer. I don't think there is anything we can do about it. Wait for the season to be over? Then what? Pioli will be sacked, another nobody will be brought him to replace him, we'll have another mediocre signing campaign and the film will be rewinded once again.


We need to sign star players that is only solution. This team has no backbone.
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han2503
post Nov 3 2019, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 3 2019, 10:53 PM) *
Why did Pioli take off Paqueta? Such a dub move.

But still this goes beyond individual errors. We're just lost, mentally and tactically. This team has no shape or form, no real identity or desire to prove itself.

And what's there to be done about it? I have no answer. I don't think there is anything we can do about it. Wait for the season to be over? Then what? Pioli will be sacked, another nobody will be brought him to replace him, we'll have another mediocre signing campaign and the film will be rewinded once again.

Yep. There's no one thing that can be corrected to solve the problems we have

I disagreed with the Paqueta sub as well. He seems to always take him off when he's always our best midfielder.

This season was doomed the moment we failed to bring in a proper experienced coach. Pioli I think is doing just fine given the hand he's been dealt.

Basing our entire team on young players and then on top of it hiring a coach which uses a very particular system that will tend to push said young players into uncomfortable situations was always going to be a disaster. The group of players we have is certainly not as bad as the table indicates, but there needs to be a mix. We need more direct players, we need to move certain players that we rely on too much today to the bench so they can be good rotation guys but not starter we depend on, because they are simply not dependable due to their inconsistency

We need a proper partner for Romagnoli. Maybe Caldara could return this season who knows.

But yes, this will be another year zero. And I can't even blame this on Paolo and Boban either, they worked within the parameters that they were given. Coaches like Conte are simply above our price range, the fact that we couldn't even get Spalleti indicate the limitations that these guys are working within
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han2503
post Nov 3 2019, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE (William405 @ Nov 3 2019, 11:00 PM) *
We need to sign star players that is only solution. This team has no backbone.

The team is simply too young.

And I'm not saying that a young side can't achieve. But there needs to be a mix of experience and youth

Add to that, this group of players is basically a poisoned well from their time at this club. The constant upheaval within this club has set these players back a lot, especially mentally and the fans booing them is certainly not helping. This might have been fine when they did it to Seedorf, he could take it, but these fragile guys simply cannot, and the fans should not be trampling on an already fragile group of young players who have already been through enough this season. It's just a toxic situation atm, from all sides.

I still continue to say that I have actually seen improvements under Pioli compared to GP. But, we're leaking too many goals as well allow our opponents too much space. At least we're creating more. If we can get on a bit of a run, things will look up and the players will gain confidence, but unfortunately, on top of everything else this season, we've been saddled with a shitty fixture list that's hard to navigate.
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Danny
post Nov 4 2019, 02:30 AM
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OK, some perspective:

Celtic beat this side last week with something to spare. True, it was in Glasgow, but Rangers and Celtic are well matched this season and the title will go to the wire.

For Lazio to come to San Siro and rather easily put Milan away shows Milan now are considerably worse than either Rangers or Celtic, which is something I never thought I'd say.

Celtic, fair enough in a sense - 8IAR in the Scottish league without a viable Rangers - now this season Rangers are back at that level, and it's clear to me Rangers would destroy Milan.

We've put Feyenoord away this season, we should have put away Young Boys but for dreadful defending, and Porto were VERY lucky to get a point at home v us.

Milan, clearly, would lose to these teams. All five. Rangers, Celtic, Feyenoord, Young Boys and Porto.

The players aren't THAT bad - it's just a systemic rot which has taken over the club from top to bottom.

Doesn't matter who the manager is, barely matters who the players are - it's just a horrific gloom enveloping the club and I really can't see a way out.

I don't think Milan are coming back from this. I think the descent into a Leeds, Forest etc is complete.
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 4 2019, 12:02 PM
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Really? No comeback? I'm very skeptic myself but...
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Danny
post Nov 4 2019, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2019, 12:02 PM) *
Really? No comeback? I'm very skeptic myself but...


I think so. Unlike Rangers who fell further and harder in the same year as Milan (2012) the SPL isn't competitive in terms of quality beyond Celtic. Milan haven't fallen that dramatically, but in a way it's worse - Rangers were given a broken leg and it healed - Milan are on like a horrible long-term ACLI which is so so hard to repair.

Rangers were able to come back through divisions with fairly modest spend, but Milan can't do that - to compete in the top half of the table already takes more money better managed than we seem to be. Rangers have Celtic to beat. Milan have Inter, Juve, Napoli, Atalanta, Roma, Lazio etc etc.

20 years on from Leeds' fall in England, they are STILL in the Championship.

Gone from UCL semi final and champions of England to this.

If it can happen to the former best of England, it can happen to anyone.
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 4 2019, 12:53 PM
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Again, Milan ain't Leeds. We have history and value, I think someone will come and pick us up soon enough.
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Rossoneri7
post Nov 4 2019, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2019, 03:53 PM) *
Again, Milan ain't Leeds. We have history and value, I think someone will come and pick us up soon enough.


That 7 CL bags on the side of the shirt isn't playing on the field. 5 of those CL titles were funded by Silvio. With FFP that is not possible even if an owner does come in.
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Danny
post Nov 4 2019, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2019, 12:53 PM) *
Again, Milan ain't Leeds. We have history and value, I think someone will come and pick us up soon enough.


Big insult there on Leeds mate. I'm not exactly their biggest fan but your age betrays the fact you lack knowledge of how big they were in the time before the past 20 years.

They might not have had quite the glitter-laden glory we had, but they've won the league more than Napoli and been runners up many times too.

And yet they fell. Dramatically. Horribly. And can't get back.

'history and value' means nothing if the path ahead is bleak.

Another example?

Nottingham Forrest. Won the EC twice, league once, but a tonne of trophies as well. Now languishing in lower league hell and have been for decades.

Another example?

Man Utd.

One of the most glory-laden clubs in history, yet been absolute tripe since SAF quit. That was the same period, btw, that our exodus happened - 2012/2013. All the money, all the history, all the glory, and 10th in the table. Already starting to get scarily close to a decade of this for their fans.

Another example?

Hamburg.

Multiple German title winners, a EC, tonnes of other trophies and where are they now? Bundesliga 2.

Don't ever get so complacent that 'history and value' means a damn. It doesn't. Results and form do. And we have neither any more.

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Danny
post Nov 4 2019, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 4 2019, 04:07 PM) *
That 7 CL bags on the side of the shirt isn't playing on the field. 5 of those CL titles were funded by Silvio. With FFP that is not possible even if an owner does come in.


Fair point R7. We're not buying our way out of this.

This club needs to generate the numbers the likes of PSG, Man City, Real etc do. It's supposed to be able to, but the numbers just aren't there any more. Even in fact Real and Man Utd, while still the biggest brands around, can't get it right.

According to Brand Finance 2019 we're 15th for global brand size, and 21st for enterprise strength.

And yet 1-5 includes Utd and Real yet these two are hardly in the best place right now either.

So, even though Man Utd can afford a Pogba and a Maguire, they're so mismanaged in a football sense, like us, it doesn't matter.

And as long as we have idiots like Maldini and Boban making the calls, that's the way it stays.

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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 4 2019, 05:50 PM
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Yet we have to consider the conditions of our present time.

Hamburger SV never were a true German giant, they just had much success in the 80s (and some in the 50s and 70s). Leeds is huge, I didn't want anyone to get insulted. But in terms of titles they cannot be compared to any of the top English clubs. I think Milan is in a whole different league then the likes of Forest, Leeds, HSV, etc. Not that this can be helpful or a dire warning to us.

But to answer R7, our 7 CL titles won't show up on field. But the will show up for the marketing and business side. Milan still can attract investors because unlike the aforementioned clubs (bar HSV) Milan is located in a relevant and attractive city (Milano) and still represents a prestigious brand. Now everything can be devalued and Milan could easily face the fate of Leeds etc. But our history makes us still attractive to potential buyers. If we find a suitable parton we can hope to get rebuild one day. Until the we have to forget about sporting results, hope we somehow crawl into the CL and manage to up our prize and then again hope to get sold to the right owner. There's a lot of ifs and buts, I'm completely aware.
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X-Offender
post Nov 4 2019, 09:54 PM
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Sorry Danny, but comparing Milan to the likes of Leeds, Hamburg, Rangers and Nottingham is a huge insult.

If we take the whole history of football of the last, let's say, 65 years (since the first European Cup was played), I'd argue that in terms of trophies, players and overall prestige we come second only to Real Madrid.

We've had 12 European Cup/Champions League finals, 7 of which won. We've won 18 FIFA and UEFA trophies, a record three Intercontinental Cups and one FIFA Club World Cup, the UEFA Super Cup a record five times, and the Cup Winners' Cup twice.

We've produced one if not the best and most influential football sides under Sacchi, not to mention the 8 Ballon d'Or wins by 6 players, only second to Real Madrid and Barcelona (clearly boosted by the recent wins of Ronaldo and Messi).

And in Italy we're the second most successful club after Juventus.

We are giants of football, and we'll find our way back to the top eventually. Can't say when, but we'll never get relegated or fail financially. We're just too big to fail.
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Danny
post Nov 4 2019, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2019, 05:50 PM) *
Yet we have to consider the conditions of our present time.

Hamburger SV never were a true German giant, they just had much success in the 80s (and some in the 50s and 70s). Leeds is huge, I didn't want anyone to get insulted. But in terms of titles they cannot be compared to any of the top English clubs. I think Milan is in a whole different league then the likes of Forest, Leeds, HSV, etc. Not that this can be helpful or a dire warning to us.


Take your point but the reality is having a name value and history doesn't really mean anything.

It doesn't guarantee survival any more than players just 'turning up' to matches means they'll win.

I do find it interesting you say Hamburg was never a true German giant, when Milan ourselves won all our UCLs bar two since the 80s, have never won the Uefa Cup, and won half our 18 titles before 1980 (81 years) where the 40 years since we won the other half.

Does our success mostly being in the modern era make us also not a true Italian giant?

Seems a little unfair to grade a team's success based on when they had it.
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