[Rossoneri7]

These avergae players are only European champions on the paper. I don't want to say anything bad about them as you're right: They play with a lot of heart for Milan, but the "true" european champions are Seedorf, Pippo, Pirlo....and above all Kaká.
We have a very strong team...I agree. But Dida the best goalie in the world? Come on...you're heavily heavily biased. You have to agree that at least Gigi is better than Dida. The Brazilian is a very good keeper, but IMO his class is declining year by year.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want stars like Diego and others on our bench. That'd be nuts. But how about a player like Maresca? And how about some promising young players? We really need a good CB as Maldini won't play too many matches next year I believe.
And I'm not saying we can't win anything next season. Last summer I was one of the few people thinking of winning the CL. We can do that again of course...and we can even win the Scudetto, but Inter has much better chances to win the league (as they have more quality players) as other teams have much better chances to win the CL.

We do have young players on our bench; Gila, Gourcuff, Pato ..

I think the club is working on finding a replacement for our aging defense (which proved once again that it is the best in the world) ... So that shouldn't be an issue of concern (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Dida .. Yeah, I'm very biased. But u got to hand it to him, he was the better goalkeeper in 03 (Old Trafford)

People seem to think being European Champions solves all of our problems and means we are the best.

Get real! Serie A and The Premier League are much harder to win than the Champions League. Look at the finalists in recent years. Milan, Liverpool, Arsenal, Monaco. No disrespect to any of them, but they're not even the top teams domestically.

Now consider this. Chelsea won both domestic cups, finished in the top 2 the previous 3 years, made 2 Champions League semi Finals - They compete in 4 competitions and still do well. Now look at Milan. We don't even think of the Coppa, we don't compete in Serie A so the CL is the only thing we have left. So yes, we should do well in it. Even Liverpool do well in more than just one competition.

Start looking at things realistically as opposed to thinking Pato is the next coming that will save all our problems, he won't.

Who said being European Champion solves all of our problems ?! The men on the field solve our problems (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/devil.gif) .. But we are the best (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/devilsmiley.gif) In fact we are ranked #1 in Europe. We are the most decorated club on the international front.

Then who said that Milan don't compete on several fronts .. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) You probably missed Milan's last 3 seasons before this one (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Pato is a kid !! 17 yr old kid ! There is nothing more to it.

Chelsea ?! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Since when did Chelsea become a reference point when comparing top European teams (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Madrid, Barca, Milan, Juve .. These are the clubs u should compare (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Liverpool ?! The last time they won the league was in the 90s (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Look Kurt ... I think AC Milan is the top club in Europe, period. Therefor I am convinced that no matter what team we have, we will always prevail! As we saw in Athena. So, don't get the wrong idea (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Chelsea ?! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)   Since when did Chelsea become a reference point when comparing top European teams (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Madrid, Barca, Milan, Juve .. These are the clubs u should compare (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Liverpool ?! The last time they won the league was in the 90s (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Barca have only won it once still they are a comparible club, Chelsea have been since Abramovich came in simple as. Liverpool haven't won the league since 89/90 but have attained a Champions League, UEFA Cup, UEFA Super Cup, 3 League Cups, 3 FA Cups and only us and Madrid better them in the Champions League in terms of winning of course they are a comparible team (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

People seem to be going on about history, I don't care what they did 50 years ago. Recently is what matters!

Since 2000 Milan have won 5 trophies compared to Liverpools 10. With Milan only finishing in the top 2 in the league twice in this time, Liverpool once. So neither are really competing for the league title in all honesty. But Liverpool still manage to win so many trophies. Milan do not. In the same period Chelsea have 7 trophies (2 League titles). Last season Chelsea showed what a real team does.

FA Cup - Winners
League Cup - Winners
Charity Sheild - Runners Up
Premier Legaue - Runners Up
Champions League - Semi Finals

And don't say it's all Abramovic either - From '97-2000 they won 5 more trophies. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That is going on all fronts, being there, or there abouts, in all the competitions you enter. Milan on the other hand only really compete in one competition per year. We only make the latter stages in one event, while Chelsea and Liverpool are making finals/semi finals/etc. In everything they enter.

P.S. The reason I pick Liverpool and Chelsea is because I know alot about them, don't pull the whole 'Why didn't you pick real European teams like Barca, Real, etc. because I don't know enough about them to comment. But if Chelsea and Liverpool aren't Europes elite, and are still more succesful than us in the 21st century. We should be really worried about our Milan.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Aug 9 2007, 08:21 PM

[Tennie]

People seem to be going on about history, I don't care what they did 50 years ago. Recently is what matters!

Does this mean we don't have to pay attention to constant harping reminders in the English press about 1966, then? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

To be serious for a moment, my personal take on the whole issue is somewhere between R7's rosy view of things and Kurt's rather harsh view.

Milan ARE, over the last 20 years, the best team in Europe. That said, the old armor is creaking, the bench is dangerously thin, and I suspect that in the next couple of years Milan may go through a crash-and-burn-followed-by-expensive-rebuilding of the sort that Bayern just got through.

[kurtsimonw]

Does this mean we don't have to pay attention to constant harping reminders in the English press about 1966, then?  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Just be thankful we haven't won anything recently. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Does this mean we don't have to pay attention to constant harping reminders in the English press about 1966, then?  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But do you actually have to read English press (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) It makes no sense you must go out of your way to read it from our sources, then complain, why bother...

[Rossoneri7]

If the EPL is your reference point to football .. Then you should know that the CL trophy is worth 20 FA cups and 1000 League cups. It is a merit of recognition amongst the elite of the footballing world. It is an achievement Milan have accomplished 7 times now. I think Milan is a very respectable club. A prestigious club that always has this aura of victory around it. Something all three of the EPL clubs, whom finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the EPL respectively, all didn't have the chance to match the class of AC Milan (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/devilsmiley.gif) And keep in mind, those 3 teams were hyped up so much .. because of the quality and depth they have in their teams.

AC Milan played with this very squad and look what it accomplished.


@Brilliant .. I meant that the EPL teams are hyped up too much. With all do respect to Liverpool, I don't think that 5th CL trophy that they won was theirs, it was ours (the whole world knows it !). So to be honest; comparing our 7 trophies and Madrid's 9 trophies .. Well, Liverpool with 4 (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ... And in general, I am no fan of things that are hyped up .. So the EPL in particular I don't like.

[kurtsimonw]

If the EPL is your reference point to football .. Then you should know that the CL trophy is worth 20 FA cups and 1000 League cups.

To a foreigner? Yes. To me? The FA Cup is the most prestigious trophy in the football World, by a long distance. As a player, I'd have that over the Champions League any day. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It existed long before the Champions League, or any none-English club for that matter.

The reason I caompare to EPL teams is because I'm English, what do you think I watch th most? What do you think I know more about? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Something all three of the EPL clubs, whom finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the EPL respectively, all didn't have the chance to match the class of AC Milan

As I mentioned before. Milan were in one competition. Chelsea, Liverpool and United were in 3/4. Their squad was tired. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

@Brilliant .. I meant that the EPL teams are hyped up too much. With all do respect to Liverpool, I don't think that 5th CL trophy that they won was theirs, it was ours

And the 7th that we won wasn't ours, it was theirs. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Aug 10 2007, 01:23 AM

[dst]

@Kurt: You're not really saying ********* have been competitive on all fronts are you? And they have won 10 titles? They cannot top 3 AAA titles (2 CL's and a Scudetto) with stupid third-rate cups... not in my book at least. They have not been more successful than we've been if that's what you were trying to say... certainly not!

And the 7th that we won wasn't ours, it was theirs.  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It's stupid to award a title based on a final... Istanbul is the worst day of my life but Milan maybe did not deserve a place in that final... Last year, we hammered the English champions 3-0 at San Siro... it's not really fair to administer justice this way...

This post has been edited by dst: Aug 10 2007, 01:34 AM

[Rossoneri7]

I know ur English mate (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

All I'm saying is, you should be the one who knows the difference between the FA/League cup and the Champions League cup (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ... And since you follow the EPL, then you should know that the teams in the League cup and FA cup always have teams from the 2nd or 3rd divisions .. So what kind of competition is that .. No offense, I mean English football is very rich in history and all .. But I am a Milan fan and don't see any team that can match my Milan ...

ohh United and Liverpool were too busy with other trophies to win huh (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Well, you certainly give so little recognition to a team that was being harassed by the tabloids and the commentators of the whole world for the past season .. Like 'Milan is an aging team', 'that Maldini can't kick it anymore', etc etc .. Maldini lifted that cup on top of United and Liverpool, as Milan outclassed them!


P.S. .. Milan had more injuries and fatigue throughout the season than all 3 EPL teams combined last season. And Milan was crowned above the top EPL teams, in a competition every EPL team drools at. As SAF, he'll tell you (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by Rossoneri7: Aug 10 2007, 01:52 AM

[kurtsimonw]

@Kurt: You're not really saying ********* have been competitive on all fronts are you? And they have won 10 titles? They cannot top 3 AAA titles (2 CL's and a Scudetto) with stupid third-rate cups... not in my book at least.

Liverpool HAVE been more competetive than us, at least. Neither Liverpool or Milan are competetive for the title. Both do well in the Champions Legaue. Milan do not even think of the Coppa, while Liverpool do very well in the FA Cup, the biggest domestic Cup there is. The League Cup, while not very prestigious is still big nowadays. Look at the last three winners: United - Chelsea - Chelsea. Hardly small squads, look at the lineups they've put out as well. The competetiveness of our league has forced the big 4 to go for every competition they're in, so they don't end a season trophyless.

@R7 - The reason the FA Cup is the most prestigious trophy in the history of sport is because so many teams enter it. There's about 30 rounds of the competition before it gets to the 'First round proper'. By the QF stage, the EPL teams are the only ones left, so it ultimately ends up with an EPL winner every year. But it helps our lower teams survive. Last year United played Exeter, who were in administration, the gate receipts alone will pay their wages until 2020. Italy should look into something like this.

I'm not taking anything away from Milan winning it, I'm just saying it's easier when it's the only competition you have to look at.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Aug 10 2007, 01:55 AM

[Rossoneri7]

@R7 - The reason the FA Cup is the most prestigious trophy in the history of sport is because so many teams enter it. There's about 30 rounds of the competition before it gets to the 'First round proper'. By the QF stage, the EPL teams are the only ones left, so it ultimately ends up with an EPL winner every year. But it helps our lower teams survive. Last year United played Exeter, who were in administration, the gate receipts alone will pay their wages until 2020. Italy should look into something like this.

I'm not taking anything away from Milan winning it, I'm just saying it's easier when it's the only competition you have to look at.

I don't see the point in playing against Exeter tbh kurt .. In competitions, groups stages (then) knock-outs .. It is always the more challenging to play against well prepared clubs, clubs with history and the strong team is the victor in the end (i.e. WC, etc). The CL is the top trophy, right alongside the Scudetto for Milan. Milan doesn't play in the coppa cuz it has more important things to win; i.e. Scudetto and CL ... Whilst United play Exeter and Chelsea play Ringadong FC, just in case they don't win the league title or the CL, they have something to lean their backs onto .. A cup based in the UK and the majority of it's participants are of lower division teams .. In that sense, they should have been smarter and put more effort into landing the CL than those cups, cuz the CL for the best of the best ONLY.

Why is it that it is difficult for people to comprehend what Milan has been through last season (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) ... Milan didn't have it easy !! Milan were thrown dirt in their faces all through the season (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Inter were already comfortable Serie A leaders, they lost to Valencia in the CL. Milan were crawling from the 18th place in October to a 14 place in December, then 3rd place in May, end of season 4th place finish .. Plus the European crown. I mean, APPLAUSE ! This is a Grand Milan side ! It fought with all the will that it had for that 4th place finish, when Lazio, Fiorentina, and Palermo were breathing down our necks the whole season ! In that sense, Milan had obligations in the league too (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

So please, don't say "..it's easier when it's the only competition you have to look at..", cuz Milan proved it by landing in 4th place, a CL seat (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[dst]

I'm not taking anything away from Milan winning it, I'm just saying it's easier when it's the only competition you have to look at.

In my view Chelsea, United and even Sevilla have had a better season than us... but I can't see how ********* have been more consistent than us in the past seasons...

[kurtsimonw]

I don't see the point in playing against Exeter tbh kurt .. In competitions, groups stages (then) knock-outs .. It is always the more challenging to play against well prepared clubs, clubs with history and the strong team is the victor in the end (i.e. WC, etc).

Come on, don't start with that.

Just because a team is small, it deserves no chance? How can a small team ever get noticed if they never get to play anything worthwhile. That's why the FA Cup is so special. And just so you know, Exeter drew 0-0 at Old Trafford. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

They are HUGE memories for an Exeter fan, they'd never play a team of note, than they draw at Old Trafford. Possibly the greatest accomplishment of that clubs history.

You can make a mockery of almost any club in that sense. In 1900 Milan had nothing, compared to Villa's 5 League titles and 3 FA Cups. Does that mean you don't deserve to play us? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Not at all, every team deserves a chance, the smaller clubs moreso than the bigger ones, they're already worth millions, the small ones just want to survive. That's why the FA Cup is so special. It's for everybody, not just the best.

Every great club starts from nothing at all.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Aug 10 2007, 05:52 AM

[LaPalma]

We do have young players on our bench; Gila, Gourcuff, Pato ..

I think the club is working on finding a replacement for our aging defense (which proved once again that it is the best in the world) ... So that shouldn't be an issue of concern (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Dida .. Yeah, I'm very biased. But u got to hand it to him, he was the better goalkeeper in 03 (Old Trafford)

Well....as you didn't say anything else I assume you agree with me, that our subs don't have much quality. Plus, Gila is not a young player anymore....he's 25!

About that "Exeter thing". In Germany we Have the DFB Pokal which is very similar to the FA Cup, which teams of the 4th or sometimes even 5th League entering the main round. I think it's a great thing as football as a sport needs more than top teams. The base for the popularity of this sport is not the big stars, but the many players in the lower leagues who do the best PR for football. Without this leagues there would be no top team as well. These clubs deserve the chance to play against the big german teams like Bayern Bremen, Schalke etc. And don't know a person that didn't cheer for St.Pauli in 2006 (third league team, still a very popular club in Germany) when they made it to the semis and almost won against Bayern? That's one of the great storys in football. Sometimes it's harder to play against such a highly motivated team which players play the game of their life than to play against some team in the CL.

Once again on our squad. Yes, we won the CL last season which really shows the passion of our players, and this triumphwas surely no accident as we totally deserved it. But this is a new season, and if we're honest with our selves we don't have the best squad. In the first half of the last season we've seen what our team looks like without the injured Rhino and an out-of form Pirlo.
And, yes you're right R7: Milan IS the most succesfull club of the last two decades, and of course more succesfull than Chelsea has been in the last 5 years. My only concern is, that this is about to change...