[LaPalma]

Gazzetta's opinion doesn't have an impression on me. I have watched the final many times and I still think Nesta was our best player that night, even better than Inzaghi (in fact apart from those two goals, which one of them was a fluke, Inzaghi didn't do anything special that night).

But that's waht Pippo does and why I love him so much. He scores without any hesitation and warning -->Superpippo (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Wow, that's some nice discussion btw, really would like to say something more, but I just lack the time (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Well, if Milan decide not to buy at a certain price, then that is their policy wink.gif It isn't football manager 06 rolleyes.gif

I hope it's football manager '07 (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Honestly, of course you're right but I an only recall myself. Henry for 24 Million? That's a pretty good price IMO, AND he chose Barca over us which is worse IMO. We're not the cool ones for the players any more.

And concerning the sub situation. I think most of the people on milanfan know that we can't buy players like Riquelme, van der Vaart, Sneijder etc. as subs. But why don't we get some more promising youngsters as subs instead of oldies like Brocchi? And don't say that it has something to do with experience. It was Brocchi who caused ManU 3:2 win over us after Rino left the field.

[Panama Devil]

I KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL FANS THAT CONTINUE TO TRUST THE EXACT SAME TEAM WE HAVE .... I DO AS WELL AND I WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THIS TEAM NO MATTER WHAT ...

BUT, THERE IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT.

PLACING ALL OUR HOPES IN ONE PLAYER (RONALDO) IS NOT RIGHT.

HE IS A PLAIN HUMAN BEING THAT CAN GET INJURED ANYTIME , ANYTIME!

IF THAT HAPPENS ... WE WILL BE IN THE SAME SITUATION WE WERE LAST LEASON..... LACK OF GOALS AND WE WILL HAVE TO RELY OUR HOPES IN KAKA

IF THIS HAPPENS I CAN REALLY ASSURE THAT KAKA WILL WANT TO LEAVE ... HE IS A STAR ALRIGHT ... BUT HE IS TOTALLY AWARE THAT HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE SHINNING IN THE SKY AND NOBODY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN ENTIRE ARMY OF FANS ALL OVER THE WORLD DEPENDING ONLY ON HIM

BATMAN (A HUMAN HERO) NEEDS ROBIN .... SUPERMAN WILL NEVER EXIST

[Milan Are Brilli...]

I KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL FANS THAT CONTINUE TO TRUST THE EXACT SAME TEAM WE HAVE .... I DO AS WELL AND I WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THIS TEAM NO MATTER WHAT ...

BUT, THERE IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT.

PLACING ALL OUR HOPES IN ONE PLAYER (RONALDO) IS NOT RIGHT.

HE IS A PLAIN HUMAN BEING THAT CAN GET INJURED ANYTIME , ANYTIME!

IF THAT HAPPENS ... WE WILL BE IN THE SAME SITUATION WE WERE LAST LEASON..... LACK OF GOALS AND WE WILL HAVE TO RELY OUR HOPES IN KAKA

IF THIS HAPPENS I CAN REALLY ASSURE THAT KAKA WILL WANT TO LEAVE ... HE IS A STAR ALRIGHT ... BUT HE IS TOTALLY AWARE THAT HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE SHINNING IN THE SKY AND NOBODY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN ENTIRE ARMY OF FANS ALL OVER THE WORLD DEPENDING ONLY ON HIM

BATMAN (A HUMAN HERO) NEEDS ROBIN .... SUPERMAN WILL NEVER EXIST

(IMG:http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2699/capslockyt0.jpg)
You may want to press this (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Who's placing all their hopes on R9 anyways, last time I checked we won the CL without him. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

The likes of Pirlo were reall off form due to the World Cup, this year they've had their break we'll be fine. We're not going to win the Scudetto anyways. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jul 7 2007, 06:12 PM

[dst]

Yes Milan did loose those titles unfairly ! U have been saying it for the past year !!

And?

The board gave an Ultimatum to Ancelotti This is a first!

A first?? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Well, whatever I can't find Ancelotti's comments on the official site where he says that if he hadn't won the European Cup then probably he would have been sacked...

In any case, neither of us really know if he was supported or not so our opinions on this one is clearly subjective.

Well .. Oliviera was a sh1tty transfer, as was Gilardino (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) This was a remark dst, not involved in the discussion .. but if we must drag him in, he is sh1t 

Exactly, not involved in the discussion. The same with Gilardino... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Again .. I agree here with you .. The club could have added more to the team .. But that hasn't happened. Still, even with us not adding, we won the Champions League and reached the league target of 4th place.

Exactly! We won the CL and reached 4th place despite the management's bad job... I never said anything different... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

It ain't black and white .. You wanted Diarra last season ! Well, where was he gonna fit ?! I'll tell you, right between Simic and Broochi on the bench.

What has Diarra got to with this? We're talking about a bench player for f@ck's sake... You don't really believe I wanted Diarra for the bench...

On Simic and Broochi, these are the second string players Milan has, and they have done well coming off the bench. The problem Milan faced was injuries, more than the lack of reliable substitutes.

When there are injured players, substitutes take their place... If the latter are crap... sh!t happens!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Ok .. So let us say Milan should have gotten 5 players last season .. Then what ?! The same outcome would have happened The league was always gonna be Inters and the two years before that always Juve ...

How can you tell what would have happened?? Maybe last year Inter was excellent but the previous two years...

Milan is still as competitive as it was back then.

4th place and CL win < 2nd place (fighting till the end) and CL semis < 2nd place (losing in the penultimate day) and CL final

In terms of competitiveness that is... we're on the decline in that area in my view!

[dst]

Well, if Milan decide not to buy at a certain price, then that is their policy It isn't football manager 06

Did I say it's not their policy?? Man... your replies have all been completely irrelevant to what I'm saying!!!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Of course it's their policy, I DON'T AGREE WITH IT!!!

Mistakes .. Everyone makes mistakes

That means our board does mistakes too...

Milan is an organization .. They have a balance sheet that has to be checked at the end of every season. Moreover, there are cash-flow statements, and other fiscal data that needs to be assessed too. Therefor, Milan isn't sitting on a bank account and throwing away money. Sure Silvio is a billionaire and loves Milan to shreds and has promised that he will be intervening to bring a superstar. That aside, Milan is still an organization and will be run as such.

I never asked for anything else... I want Milan to be a healthy organization first and foremost!

I never asked for Ronaldinho though... you are the one who wants Silvio to spend 70m for him! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Now you don't want Milan to be in that situation It isn't about 2M or 5M, it is about compramise.

The compromise thing is your opinion! I have mine: If you're not willing to spend 10m on an RB who has won the World Cup when your one and only other RB is 37 years old you are cheap!!

I resent that remark! Rui doesn't deserve the bench !! This is where we need to draw our conclusions. Youw ant a sub of Rui's quality, I wouldn't like to see a player of Rui's quality on the bench We are no Madrid, Chelsea, or Inter.

I never said Rui deserves the bench... Nevertheless, Rui WAS a sub in both his last seasons at Milan... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Your conclusions are totally delusional!

Whether I am new to Milan or not ... It is football, before a final match. You rest your key players. This isn't rocket science, it's pure logic.

Well obviously your logic is at a level way way down... What the f@ck don't you understand: Milan reached the CL final in 05 but because Milan was also in the title race they did NOT rest any players in the championship games before the final!!!!!!!!! Anyone who was watching Milan back then can confirm that... Don't bullsh!t me about rocket science, this is something that HAS happened and you're responding as if I'm an idiot imagining all this...

So with the United game being one of the greatest  ... And us 'loosing the Athena final' .. the team wouldn't be worse .. It would just mean that certain players would move away. Which is perfectly healthy, had we lost.

I don't understand why there should be changes then since the team wouldn't be any worse but anyway... I believe it's as difficult to stay at the top as it is to reach and for that to happen there need some changes to be made! This is my opinion... let's leave it at that!

This post has been edited by dst: Jul 7 2007, 08:11 PM

[Zed.D]

WOW!

dst VS. Rossoneri7 ! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

Gosh!!!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I`m amazed by the way this conversation is going on..

First of all, @dst, I agree with you on most of the things, still

4th place and CL win < 2nd place (fighting till the end) and CL semis < 2nd place (losing in the penultimate day) and CL final

This calculation is wrong I fear. Winning the CL is more important and is bigger then any other place then the 1st. So: CL win is allways > then anything less of the 1st place.
And logically, we will all remember the 2007 season by winning the CL, while the 2006 will be soon forgotten. I mean, a Milan freak (like me (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) maybe finds it more important to finish up 2nd in SA and reach the semis in the CL, but a normal and plain Milan supporter would choose the CL win in a second.

Beside those, (I agree) arguable agruments I stated, I really don`t think there is and apsolute and 100% sure calculation for those things.


One thing I am afraid is consisted in the brilliant question dst asked; how is the Milan that won the CL different to the Milan who`d eventually lost that same final?!
You know how? By creating an ilusion that stands on very thin legs - loosing the CL final would probably mean the exit of Pippo, Gila would be also under pressure and a bunch od other players as well. By loosing the CL we all would be terribly sorry, but at the same time our board would have been forced to challange the problems.

But that didn`t happen. So we have still faith in Pippo, we still think that our midfield is very well covered and our keeper is reliable? This is the thing that bothers me,...


You mentioned the Maldini think as well. Its a tricky question. I must put my hand on my heart and confess that sometimes, watching Maldini playing in this season I thought "my god, is he really the one I used to watch years ago?". Of course, he isn`t the one,..thats nature. But all the big and important matches he mastered very well. His experience was a compensation to his week passing and slow reactions. I`d be the happiest to see Maldini play till his 50-ties, and I also am not asked to comment wether he should retire or not. The only think I really pray for not to happen is that we catch a lousy season with miserable games, and that this season allways stays in my memories.

Its a simple thing - like Maradona - yes, possibly the greatest player of them all,..but that last matches, with his fat look, bad condition and look in general, were he wasn`t able to do anything,...those moments engraved in my memory and allways make a shadow on all the good things; like in the real life - when (I`ll give you my own example) your grandma dies after two years of suffering and living without a real conciousness - in your memory this period will be the one you recall first. It does not matter if you lived with her for 10 years and he was in perfect health. The last two,..they leave a bitter taste.

Sure, one season isn`t comparable with the two examples I used (maybe only if we would end up on a relegation place and banned out of the CL).
But in some way, ending his career by lifting the trophie would be the perfect end(eventually, that will happen after all (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/devil.gif) ).

Now, I`ll ask a bold question. I`m really not sure what Maldini thinks. If he means he can make one more, complete season as captain and first team player in which he will lead the defense in all competitions,..well, then he is exactly like our board. If this is the case, in which I`m pretty sure it isn`t, we are in problems.


But we all use a egregiously philosophical approach...
Lets play it simple,.. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[dst]

Gosh!!!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I`m amazed by the way this conversation is going on..

I don't know if this is what you mean but I believe my reaction was too harsh thus I feel the need to apologize to R7... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

This calculation is wrong I fear.

I said I meant it in terms of competitiveness... if you're challenging for two major trophies till the very end then you're more competitive than some one else who does so only in one competition...

Of course last season was the most successful of those three as we actually won something...

For example, I think United had a clearly better season than us...

how is the Milan that won the CL different to the Milan who`d eventually lost that same final?!

In my opinion nothing changes... I mean, anything can happen in a final, we all learned that the hard way in 2005 but that doesn't mean the team that hammered United would lose it's greatness on that instant...

I believe we need some reinforcements!! We need a young RB, a CB (do we have to wait 'till Maldini retires to test somebody? Maybe then it will be too late and we'll lose precious time!) a better replacement for Brocchi (Montolivo/Aquilani... it's not like Brocchi's experience has really helped him anyway...), a better replacement for Borriello (Pato... for the future) and a great striker (R20/Sheva)!

Even if Maldini score 10 own goals next season there's no chance we're going to remember it... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[Rossoneri7]

Well obviously your logic is at a level way way down... What the f@ck don't you understand: Milan reached the CL final in 05 but because Milan was also in the title race they did NOT rest any players in the championship games before the final!!!!!!!!! Anyone who was watching Milan back then can confirm that... Don't bullsh!t me about rocket science, this is something that HAS happened and you're responding as if I'm an idiot imagining all this...

Keep in mind .. I have already stated that the strength of our squad was the strongest in 05. Also keep in mind that the reports in the calciopoli proved that Moggi had made life much easier for Juve to take the title(s).



Look .. I am not sure where you want this to go, but by no means don’t expect me to go down to that level (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Carlo Ancelotti had taken Milan off of the hands of Fatih Terim because of poor results. He took Milan from the slumps to being the prime contenders for both the CL and Scudetto, and didn’t leave any room for rivals of any of those two championships to breath. Milan management values things like this. You can clearly see it in Costacurta, Baresi, etc .. They give back .. And one thing they give back to you that no management has ever is faith ! I don’t need proof from the site. I don’t need reconfirmation about a coach I have defended all through this season when some already started daydreaming about Mourinho and Rijkaard.

If you think otherwise .. That is your opinion.

The management of Milan has a different twist to it. We agree that they will always look for the best to keep this team the best. What we don’t seem to agree with is the method in which they conduct business. Which you have stated that you disagree with. That is ok, you seem to disagree with mostly everything I have been saying. But lets look at the manner in which they have worked for the team in the 3 past years where you claim that our strongest stage was 05 then on a decline till today.

I agree that the 05 squad was the strongest in this millennium, in terms of the quality of our bench and our first XI.

But in no time did Milan weaken from that point onwards. The management kept the team always with enough quality and depth to go for the scudetto and the CL. We might not have the same names as in 05 like Stam, Crespo, Rui, and Shevchenko .. But what we do have is a fine crop of players that get down on the field and prove to everyone that they are the real deal, European champions, and players whom I value more than R10 or any star name you would like to bring in. And definitely enough quality to be ranked #1 in Europe, when many predicted that Milan might loose even that bragging right to Barca. The ONLY reasons Milan struggled this season was injuries, lack of preparation, points deduction (plus not getting compensated later on), and calciocaos. All of which are due to matters that are out of the club's hands.

What were Barca doing ?! They had the best team in Europe, with all their acquisitions .. What off Chelsea ?! They had a HUGE quality bench, but they didn’t win the league nor the CL, and they were favorites for both. There goes your theory (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) . Milan were not even favorites, not even before the game with United which in that time these European champions were fighting with there hands and feet for a 4th place finish .. This landmark that Milan reached last season is something that falls mainly on the management (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif) . The faith they kept in Pippo, Kaka, Dida, Nesta, and other key players proved a success (renewing contracts, showing open faith to, etc).

Milan management cheap ?! Because the 2M thing ?! Because of Favalli type players ?! Well, I am glade that Milan is cheap and at the same time remains a healthy organization.

Managements don’t just buy players for the sake of shutting everyone up .. They have other objectives to reach. Ronaldinho?! How did he get in all of this ?! His expense would be taken care off by Berlusconi. Nothing to do with the club’s management. (No I didn’t assume this, this is what has been fed to me through the media quoting him)


The Milan management (gosh I feel like I am their lawyer or something) have been active in the market during the past 3 years. And Milan are active today ..

But that isn’t satisfactory now is it ?! While Inter and Barca and Chelsea and all of the teams, that we WILL bulldoze through this year, have bought several players .. All you are waiting for is Football Italia to read that Milan had purchased Milito or something like that .. Well I don’t blame you. I too am waiting for something of that sorts .. Cuz I am a fan and I do have a desire to see a couple more players in Milan.

Still, I am of the opinion that this current crop of players that we have are the best around. Most are older than the rest, still the understanding and cohesion in this team that the management has created is remarkable. And this is one thing I value as a Rossonero. And I am convinced that Milan will reinforce itself this summer, as a great club does.

How will they deal with which players are left and all that talk that has been going on here about who should come, etc ? They have been doing it for years, it isn’t our job to out smart the experts in this field.

What this management gives to this team .. Is more than any management has given to any team. 21 years of success, taking Milan to within 2CL trophies from Madrid. I say it was a job well done.

Whether they missed Zlatan or Suazo or whoever ur agitated about .. They gave us Ronaldo whom I am really grateful for, as promised a Sheva replacement.

p.s. Obviously there is going to be transfer activity for Milan, they still have over 50 days. At least 2 new faces will come.

This post has been edited by Rossoneri7: Jul 8 2007, 12:46 AM

[Fillipo Simone]

You two make both great remarks and posts, and both have clear points,...

Lets make it a tie,.. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Costacurta]

There are countless customary tales regarding signing young south americans touted somewhere by someone as the new R9/R10/Kaka Pele whoever.

Not least, see Real's dimwitted and frankly typical purchase of Robinho and Julio Baptista. Big money spent, huge expectation on young players-unrealistic frankly, so much so that in their case Michael Owen, a forward of infinitely better quality considering that he scores goals (when not injured) was pushed out.

Yet lets face it. Both Baptista, lumped off to Arsenal, and Robinho, probably doing step-overs till the cows come home but failing to put the ball in the back of the net very often are failures. Money, indeed, faith, misplaced.

However, I get the impression Pato might be a bit different. He seems to be playing a huge role for a 17-yr old, and at 10 Million Pounds could be a costly gamble. But in just 3 years time, he might be worth 3 times that. And more come 23/24. And at least that is 10 Million for what could be a players entire career in theory, not the last 3 years of it. Now that sounds good value for virtually any 1st division player. In addition, Milan are hardly the club to be counting the pennies. We've just won the CL! Frankly 10 Mil should be a snip.

Personally I would therefore go for him. Set a limit of what we are willing to pay, but bid upto it.

I would also do the same with Adriano. He blatanty wants out, he has proven talent, it's just a case of harnessing it. We know Inter can't do that. But we know we have discipline in Milanello. And the promising signs from Ronaldo show that we should be able to turn Adriano into the devastating goal scoring machine anybody knows he could be.

[Costacurta]

Oh, may I also lend my support to the view that Nesta was absolutely irreplaceable for us in Athens. I do not say that to do down Inzaghi in any respect whatsoever.

Just, as far too often happens, all the attention is on the goal-scorers, not goal-stoppers. Inzaghi rightly got lots of attention.
but Nesta deserves masses of praise and recognition for a display which befitted his rightful, though, increasingly less held place in the past few years, as the world's best CB. I thought he was sheer genius. I watched in awe.

Billy has a fine heir as world's best CB!!

[dst]

Keep in mind .. I have already stated that the strength of our squad was the strongest in 05. Also keep in mind that the reports in the calciopoli proved that Moggi had made life much easier for Juve to take the title(s).

Again: what does this have to do with what I said?

If you think otherwise .. That is your opinion.

... which is not inferior to yours!

There goes your theory

What theory? I never said that solely purchasing players will bring you titles...

His expense would be taken care off by Berlusconi.

That's not the picture of a healthy organization, it's a picture of a healthy president... yet, you seem to have no objection on Silvio spending 70m on Ronaldinho but you consider spending 2m more on a player we desperately needed a compromise...

This landmark that Milan reached last season is something that falls mainly on the management

Absolutely NOT!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

We just don't share the same opinion! Simple as that...

[Rossoneri7]

Again: what does this have to do with what I said?

That I agree the team was stronger in that year .. But due to Moggi, we never stood a chance.

... which is not inferior to yours!

Nope (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

What theory? I never said that solely purchasing players will bring you titles...

Well your tone seemed to show that ..

That's not the picture of a healthy organization, it's a picture of a healthy president... yet, you seem to have no objection on Silvio spending 70m on Ronaldinho but you consider spending 2m more on a player we desperately needed a compromise...

No, it has nothing to do with the organization of Milan. You brought him into the discussion. I never intended too.

And what if I was to object about the Ronaldinho-Silvio idea .. What am I gonna do about it ?! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Just as much as you are gonna do about the clubs transfer policy (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Absolutely NOT!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

We just don't share the same opinion! Simple as that...

Finally, he gets it (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

p.s. .. I thought that was the reason why we broke up our engagment (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)