[Fillipo Simone]

Why?

[han2503]

He has no chance v Barca, Bayern or Real.

But neither would Conte have had.

Well that's the point isn't it?

He's so far done nothing that's anything different to what he did at Milan while he had the top team or what Conte did with Juve already. Which is basically walk all over the league and fail at the very first serious hurdle in Europe.

We'll see how he does in the upcoming matches, do we know who they play against or are UEFA drawing it out even more these days and we have to wait for another draw?

But going by what we saw today against Monaco? I don't think there's a chance in hell for them against any of those teams

[X-Offender]

Bayern, Barça and Real are too much for Juve. Allegri has nothing to do with it.

[Danny]

Why?

Last time Juve played marquee teams in the CL, they lost, Bayern in 2013 destroyed them, Atletico this year were too much too albeit that one was closer.

Point is they haven't beaten a truly great team since returning to the UCL post-Jose Inter, period. Best they managed was beating the weird Di Matteo Chelsea the season after THEY won the UCL. He was fired soon after.

[Danny]

Well that's the point isn't it?

He's so far done nothing that's anything different to what he did at Milan while he had the top team or what Conte did with Juve already. Which is basically walk all over the league and fail at the very first serious hurdle in Europe.

We'll see how he does in the upcoming matches, do we know who they play against or are UEFA drawing it out even more these days and we have to wait for another draw?

But going by what we saw today against Monaco? I don't think there's a chance in hell for them against any of those teams

Actually Allegri didn't get Milan to the semi nor did Conte with Juve so that's just false.

If we're talking about quality of opponent, I agree. But then, fact is the history books will say Juve semi final, they won't say Juve beat good but not great teams to get there.

[han2503]

Bayern, Barça and Real are too much for Juve. Allegri has nothing to do with it.

Sure, but same can be said when we went out to Barca or Juve went out to Bayern under Conte.

What Allegri has done with Juve in the league is nothing that we all didn't expect to happen. What he's done in the CL is nothing different to what he already did with us and what Conte did with Juve.

And it's not like he's going to KO any of those teams based on tactical fortitude. He's a very limited coach, that's my point, as long as he has great players and he has a better team than his opponent he'll usually do well, but once he loses that he simply has no know how to fall back on

If Juve lose Vidal and Pogba this summer, then we'll talk more about this

Actually Allegri didn't get Milan to the semi nor did Conte with Juve so that's just false.

If we're talking about quality of opponent, I agree. But then, fact is the history books will say Juve semi final, they won't say Juve beat good but not great teams to get there.

Well of course I'm talking about the quality of opponent. Juve as usual were lucky with the teams they faced (has nothing to do with Allegri, they're just historically a lucky team when it comes to these draws). Allegri went as far as he did because they've so far not face anyone half as good as they are. And whereas Conte faced the big team in the quarters Allegri is facing them in the semis.

[Danny]

Sure, but same can be said when we went out to Barca or Juve went out to Bayern under Conte.

What Allegri has done with Juve in the league is nothing that we all didn't expect to happen. What he's done in the CL is nothing different to what he already did with us and what Conte did with Juve.

And it's not like he's going to KO any of those teams based on tactical fortitude. He's a very limited coach, that's my point, as long as he has great players and he has a better team than his opponent he'll usually do well, but once he loses that he simply has no know how to fall back on

If Juve lose Vidal and Pogba this summer, then we'll talk more about this


Well of course I'm talking about the quality of opponent. Juve as usual were lucky with the teams they faced (has nothing to do with Allegri, they're just historically a lucky team when it comes to these draws). Allegri went as far as he did because they've so far not face anyone half as good as they are. And whereas Conte faced the big team in the quarters Allegri is facing them in the semis.

They lost to Atletico in the group stage. They only just scraped past Monaco.

You make them out to be far better than they are.

[X-Offender]

They lost to Atletico in the group stage. They only just scraped past Monaco.

You make them out to be far better than they are.

Losing to Atletico in Madrid is hardly something terrible. They could have performed better against Monaco, true, but they passed in the end and that's all that matters.

[Danny]

Losing to Atletico in Madrid is hardly something terrible. They could have performed better against Monaco, true, but they passed in the end and that's all that matters.

This entire debate is a paradox.

On one hand I'm defending Allegri, the other I'm condemning Juve.

On one hand you lot condemn Allegri, the other you defend Juve ha.

[kurtsimonw]

Juve's best season since...? 2003? Conte being out-Conte'd with his own team. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[X-Offender]

This entire debate is a paradox.

On one hand I'm defending Allegri, the other I'm condemning Juve.

On one hand you lot condemn Allegri, the other you defend Juve ha.

How am I condemning Allegri? I said if Juve lose to any of those three teams Allegri won't be at fault. I'm actually defending him!

Juve's best season since...? 2003? Conte being out-Conte'd with his own team. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

It's the details that make the difference. Conte got Bayern, Allegri got Monaco. Again, not trying to bash Allegri, but your praise isn't entirely justified either, cos he ain't doing more than what Conte did.

[Danny]

How am I condemning Allegri? I said if Juve lose to any of those three teams Allegri won't be at fault. I'm actually defending him!

But you've also given him no credit for Juve being in the semis. It's basically all down to the players and weak opposition under your logic!

It's the details that make the difference. Conte got Bayern, Allegri got Monaco. Again, not trying to bash Allegri, but your praise isn't entirely justified either, cos he ain't doing more than what Conte did.

Technically he is - Juve only had to beat Celtic in the last 16 under Conte to get to the quarters, while Allegri's Juve had to overcome the schizo Dortmund who stink in Germany but actually did very well in the UCL, and last year's La Liga champs and UCL finalists Atletico.

As further food for thought, he also beat the Dortmund side who put away Arsenal.

As yet further food for thought, Conte's Juve didn't even MAKE the KO stage last year, beaten to it as they were by Galatasaray.

In simple, blunt, honest terms, Allegri is doing better with Juve than Conte did. Conte won Serie A by 17 points. Allegri is already 15 ahead with 8 games left to further increase that lead. And he's simply outdone Conte in the UCL.

As much as you guys must hate to admit it, Allegri has taken a Juve team who were crumbling in Europe under Conte and got them first time to the semis. While maintaining domestic dominance with ease.

And if you honestly want to say the players are to be credited for this and not the manager, then you're actually admitting Allegri's better as well because he's motivated them to work harder for him than Conte did.

[han2503]

You know why Conte will still get the credit? Because Conte won the league when Juve did not have the better team by a country mile in the league.

He did it while Allegri was the one benefitting from that and managed to lose the league to Conte himself

Getting to the CL semis is all well and good when you've not faced any decent opposition up until said semis. I've backed him to reach this stage since I saw the draw, I actually thought Juve would do much better against Manaco than what they actually did, which is scrape through on a penalty

[han2503]

Technically he is - Juve only had to beat Celtic in the last 16 under Conte to get to the quarters, while Allegri's Juve had to overcome the schizo Dortmund who stink in Germany but actually did very well in the UCL, and last year's La Liga champs and UCL finalists Atletico.

Conte had Chelsea in his group that season, so that evens it out

[X-Offender]

But you've also given him no credit for Juve being in the semis. It's basically all down to the players and weak opposition under your logic!

But it's true. This season's Dortmund and Monaco were hardly worthy opponents. I don't care if they both beat Arsenal, they're just not good enough.

Technically he is - Juve only had to beat Celtic in the last 16 under Conte to get to the quarters, while Allegri's Juve had to overcome the schizo Dortmund who stink in Germany but actually did very well in the UCL, and last year's La Liga champs and UCL finalists Atletico.

As further food for thought, he also beat the Dortmund side who put away Arsenal.

As yet further food for thought, Conte's Juve didn't even MAKE the KO stage last year, beaten to it as they were by Galatasaray.

In simple, blunt, honest terms, Allegri is doing better with Juve than Conte did. Conte won Serie A by 17 points. Allegri is already 15 ahead with 8 games left to further increase that lead. And he's simply outdone Conte in the UCL.

As much as you guys must hate to admit it, Allegri has taken a Juve team who were crumbling in Europe under Conte and got them first time to the semis. While maintaining domestic dominance with ease.

And if you honestly want to say the players are to be credited for this and not the manager, then you're actually admitting Allegri's better as well because he's motivated them to work harder for him than Conte did.

And I say those stats you bring don't reflect reality. Yes, Conte failed last season in Europe, no doubt. But let's compare the first seasons for each manager. Conte won the league and got them in the CL QFs, where they faced Bayern. Allegri is making them win the league (who cares by how many points, geez!) and got them in the CL semis, but having faced the weakest side of the eight in the QFs. That's all the difference, and why I say the opponent you get matters, a lot.