[William405]

FT 3 points

All that matters.

But there's so much we need to improve on and so much that Pippo must learn

Yes, we were really lucky throughout the match. And, no one that convince that we don't have the quality to dominate this Verona in midfield. Instead, we left the defense exposed TOO many times. De Sciglio was terrible tonight, just terrible. No more excuses for him.

Honda putting out another solid performance, great job!

[X-Offender]

Very hit and miss game. Yes, we scored 3 goals, one of which was a gift, but Verona had way too many scoring opportunities. Honestly, they should have scored at least three goals. Our defensive maneuver is still as bad as it was on day one.

We played rather decently until we scored the 3rd goal, but afterwards we just switched off the engine and let Verona do as they pleased. Pippo and his noob-ish attempts at correcting this with his changes didn't help either.

Overall, I'm pleased with the result, but a lot of improvement is still necessary.

[han2503]

Yes, we were really lucky throughout the match. And, no one that convince that we don't have the quality to dominate this Verona in midfield. Instead, we left the defense exposed TOO many times. De Sciglio was terrible tonight, just terrible. No more excuses for him.

Honda putting out another solid performance, great job!

I don't think DS was bad at all, had a few iffy moments, sure but I think he's improving on his earlier showings in the season

The midfield was just awful, Essien and Muntari are so slow, having them both in there was just utterly foolish, add to that the constant passing mistakes, getting caught on the ball multiple times, running into their team mates like complete idiots and it was a comedy show out there. Poli once again is mostly all industry and no creativity.

The front 3 though were working so well, they were basically doing most of the work the midfield was supposed to be doing but couldn't. Torres and SES need to find their scoring boots but otherwise they both did well today. Honda is just on fire right now

Rami had a solid second half but thought he was 3rd worst player on the pitch in that first half. The others were all good, Abate deserves special praise as well as Alex who was a beast out there

[Danny]

Good: Honda (8), Abate (8), Abbiati (7), Poli (7), Alex (7)

Bad/meh: Essien (5) Muntari (5) MDS (5) Rami (5)

Invisible: Torres (3) El-Sha (4)

Pippo got this one spot on, despite that horrendous midfield. We played well, with freedom, and 3-0 wasn't flattering.

Unfortunately the subs were ghastly, especially making us go to a back 3 with the pitifully poor Bonera.

SES continues to be gash, assist aside, and Torres, goal V Empoli aside, has been a pathetic addition.

Honda is in electric form though, and has become our top performer this season, with Menez looking like he's starting to go off the boil.

[Danny]

I don't think DS was bad at all, had a few iffy moments, sure but I think he's improving on his earlier showings in the season

Nah, he was cr*p.

The midfield was just awful, Essien and Muntari are so slow, having them both in there was just utterly foolish, add to that the constant passing mistakes, getting caught on the ball multiple times, running into their team mates like complete idiots and it was a comedy show out there. Poli once again is mostly all industry and no creativity.

Poli isn't creative, so don't criticise him for what he isn't.

The front 3 though were working so well, they were basically doing most of the work the midfield was supposed to be doing but couldn't. Torres and SES need to find their scoring boots but otherwise they both did well today.

Not IMO - both were shite. Honda and Abate were the main reason our attack looked good.

Honda is just on fire right now

Rami had a solid second half but thought he was 3rd worst player on the pitch in that first half. The others were all good, Abate deserves special praise as well as Alex who was a beast out there

Alex is the best defender we have, but he needs the right partner. And for me that's Zapata.

[Fillipo Simone]

Him and Essien have been easily our worst players out there, how can we not mention them? This thing with Muntari is so ridiculous on this forum, why the sudden need to not even talk about how really terrible he is when we see it in our faces each week?

He was bad, and that is a fact, saying we should not over-Muntari things is ridiculous imo just because 1 or 2 people always find a way to defend him and it becomes a debate we shouldn't say anything about him ruining our game?


5 and 2 assists as well

You are right. But harping on and on how Muntari does this or that is slowly becoming tiresome to me. Everybody on this forum knows Muntari isn't Milan class, and almost everybody thinks he shouldn't play. But do we really have to repeat over and over again like "Carthago delenda est" - even in matches when his impact is peripheral (at least in first half)? I really don't think so.

FT 3 points

All that matters.

But there's so much we need to improve on and so much that Pippo must learn

I think this was a solid game in all aspects. Pippo made the last sub because even after his persistent calls for a wider formation and more possession (at least that's what I think made him look frustrated at times) the team caved in. He had no real sub for Muntari or Essien, so he moved Bonera in.

Sure, it wasn't the best of decisions but overall I'm very happy with this final results. Verona is a nightmare location for us.

[X-Offender]

I think this was a solid game in all aspects. Pippo made the last sub because even after his persistent calls for a wider formation and more possession (at least that's what I think made him look frustrated at times) the team caved in. He had no real sub for Muntari or Essien, so he moved Bonera in.

Sure, it wasn't the best of decisions but overall I'm very happy with this final results. Verona is a nightmare location for us.

I can't understand how you think this was a solid performance. After the 3rd goal we switched to neutral as Han put it, and Verona did as they pleased. We were just lucky not to concede more, people tend to neglect this very important factor.

[han2503]

Good: Honda (8), Abate (8), Abbiati (7), Poli (7), Alex (7)

Bad/meh: Essien (5) Muntari (5) MDS (5) Rami (5)

Invisible: Torres (3) El-Sha (4)

Pippo got this one spot on, despite that horrendous midfield. We played well, with freedom, and 3-0 wasn't flattering.

Unfortunately the subs were ghastly, especially making us go to a back 3 with the pitifully poor Bonera.

SES continues to be gash, assist aside, and Torres, goal V Empoli aside, has been a pathetic addition.

Honda is in electric form though, and has become our top performer this season, with Menez looking like he's starting to go off the boil.

Torres did a lot of work to keep us ticking over in attack, and SES was imo, one of our best performers, he did great off the ball work and recovered more balls than either Muntari or Essien, he provided an awesome assist and could have scored as well. How you can say he was invisible is beyond me.

I don't think Pippo got it all that spot on, we're lucky Verona were having an off day in front of goal and that Abbiati was having a good day because they could have easily out-scored us with the amount of clear cut chances they had, all while our midfield jogged around (Muntari and Essien, Poli always works hard) and let the Verona midfield put pressure on our defence.

Also, DS didn't look all that good because he was getting double teamed out there and thus crosses kept coming in from his side while Muntari did nothing to help him. Poli on the other side was helping out Abate much better since the wing play is what Verona rely most on to exploit Toni's aerial ability

Essien on the other hand kept getting caught on the ball right in front of our area because he takes a full 20 seconds real-time to get the ball out from under he feet and pass it.

Poli isn't creative, so don't criticise him for what he isn't.

Not IMO - both were shite. Honda and Abate were the main reason our attack looked good.

Alex is the best defender we have, but he needs the right partner. And for me that's Zapata.

Poli isn't a pure DM either, that was never what he was at Samp or even last season with us, it seems that now he's degenerated into this runner who mostly does the nitty gritty and moves the ball as quickly as possible as if he's afraid of it. But in a midfield that contains him, Muntari and Essien it still should be him that is a bit of a creative outlet that's able to do more than lay off a pass back to Essien or Abate. He certainly did more than that last season and when he was at Samp

SES could have had 2 assists today and Torres did a lot of work in attack to keep the ball moving imo. I thought both were good both in terms of pressing when we didn't have the ball and when we were on the attack. Calling either of them sh!t for that game is an over exaggeration imo, The only sh!t performances came from the dynamic duo in midfield, the others range from decent to great

And nah on Zapata, such a mistake prone player. If we're not counting Mexes than the guy that comes second to Alex has to be Rami

[Fillipo Simone]

I can't understand how you think this was a solid performance. After the 3rd goal we switched to neutral as Han put it, and Verona did as they pleased. We were just lucky not to concede more, people tend to neglect this very important factor.

How can a 3-1 victory not be solid? What is it then, an ugly win? I don't think so. Yes, we caved in and let the opponent take control. But no real danger came, apart from that solo action that lead to a goal. Alex and Rami had most of the box situations under control.

Yes, we have a mentality problem. We drop off pace too quickly and seem to be unable to play the whole match on a higher note. But heck, this is what most of Italians team do when they lead with 2 or more.

I really wouldn't put this one on luck. It's got nothing to do with luck; Chievo was a lucky occurrence, but this? No, I'm pretty sure had this match had a third half, we'd still get out of it with all 3 points. Alex and Rami did a fine job, Abate his best - it was only Essien who lost strength and concentration, while MDS and Muntari made one worry. But is this was what Verona can do at their best...well, I really didn't feel any special danger.

[han2503]

You are right. But harping on and on how Muntari does this or that is slowly becoming tiresome to me. Everybody on this forum knows Muntari isn't Milan class, and almost everybody thinks he shouldn't play. But do we really have to repeat over and over again like "Carthago delenda est" - even in matches when his impact is peripheral (at least in first half)? I really don't think so.

I think this was a solid game in all aspects. Pippo made the last sub because even after his persistent calls for a wider formation and more possession (at least that's what I think made him look frustrated at times) the team caved in. He had no real sub for Muntari or Essien, so he moved Bonera in.

Sure, it wasn't the best of decisions but overall I'm very happy with this final results. Verona is a nightmare location for us.

You're making it sound like I was the only one who pointed out how awful Muntari was. But if you look through the posts, everyone who was posting while watching pointed out more than once, I even defended him once when someone (can't remember who) thought it was him that shoved SES off the ball and then lost it a second later when it was Essien who did it.

And no, people actually have the audacity to defend him and his inclusion no matter how negative it is to our game, so no we can't not mention how truly awful he is in every game because that is what he pushes us to do when he's more useful to the opposition than us in each game and still gets picked

Also, I've been just as critical of Essien today, why? Because he was equally as bad and deserved just as much criticism.

I'm seriously getting tired of this. Isn't the match thread here so we can discuss BOTH the negative and positive aspect of the game as well as the negative or positive performances from players? It's not my fault that the consistent negative performer throughout all our games has been Muntari, when Bonera was also playing he was getting just as much heat but no one seemed to be so sensitive to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And I don't think it was a solid game, it was lucky more than anything else

As I said, we need to improve a lot more and Pippo has so much more to learn

[X-Offender]

How can a 3-1 victory not be solid? What is it then, an ugly win? I don't think so. Yes, we caved in and let the opponent take control. But no real danger came, apart from that solo action that lead to a goal. Alex and Rami had most of the box situations under control.

Yes, we have a mentality problem. We drop off pace too quickly and seem to be unable to play the whole match on a higher note. But heck, this is what most of Italians team do when they lead with 2 or more.

I really wouldn't put this one on luck. It's got nothing to do with luck; Chievo was a lucky occurrence, but this? No, I'm pretty sure had this match had a third half, we'd still get out of it with all 3 points. Alex and Rami did a fine job, Abate his best - it was only Essien who lost strength and concentration, while MDS and Muntari made one worry. But is this was what Verona can do at their best...well, I really didn't feel any special danger.

Hah, what?? I don't want to say this, but did you even watch the game? Abbiati made two super saves in the first half, and in the second all kinds of crap happened in our area. Verona should have scored at least 2-3 other goals.

No, it wasn't an ugly win. Like I said, it was hit and miss. Despite our defensive deficiencies, we played well until we scored the 3rd goal. We were horrible afterwards. Even though we were winning by three goals, letting Verona do as they please is far from what a leading team should do.

[Fillipo Simone]

Well I don't know what you guys expect?

After and alltime low, how do you guys imagine us starting over? Like Juventus does? Take a look at Serie A, pretty much every team beside the Zeman managed teams plus Juve and maybe Roma play the way we do. The run, hit and then sit back and try to calm the match down.

What was so lucky about this game? The fact that Abbiati did his best? Or that Alex almost completely annulled Toni's best strengths? And yes, for your information X-O, I watched the game.

[Fillipo Simone]

You're making it sound like I was the only one who pointed out how awful Muntari was. But if you look through the posts, everyone who was posting while watching pointed out more than once, I even defended him once when someone (can't remember who) thought it was him that shoved SES off the ball and then lost it a second later when it was Essien who did it.

You call this defending someone?

I hate him as much as the next person here, but that was Essien

Come on, really.

And no, people actually have the audacity to defend him and his inclusion no matter how negative it is to our game, so no we can't not mention how truly awful he is in every game because that is what he pushes us to do when he's more useful to the opposition than us in each game and still gets picked

Also, I've been just as critical of Essien today, why? Because he was equally as bad and deserved just as much criticism.

I'm seriously getting tired of this. Isn't the match thread here so we can discuss BOTH the negative and positive aspect of the game as well as the negative or positive performances from players? It's not my fault that the consistent negative performer throughout all our games has been Muntari, when Bonera was also playing he was getting just as much heat but no one seemed to be so sensitive to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I don't know man. Maybe it's me then. But I'm getting tired of all this Muntari repetition over and over again. Yes, match threads are like this, but I think most of us are now overdoing it. Commenting even the slightest mistakes he makes and taking advantage of him and the fact that he's an easy target.

Again, I'm not defending Muntari. I'm just saying it's pretty much useless, commenting the obvious details.

[han2503]

Well I don't know what you guys expect?

After and alltime low, how do you guys imagine us starting over? Like Juventus does? Take a look at Serie A, pretty much every team beside the Zeman managed teams plus Juve and maybe Roma play the way we do. The run, hit and then sit back and try to calm the match down.

What was so lucky about this game? The fact that Abbiati did his best? Or that Alex almost completely annulled Toni's best strengths? And yes, for your information X-O, I watched the game.

I don't care that we usually try to get ahead early and close shop, if that's what Pippo wants to do I'm fine with it. But closing shop is different to what we were doing today, which is to completely stop playing, invited Verona onto us and had they had a little bot more accuracy and had Abbiati not been so on his game this could have easily been a draw. The clear cut chances Verona created weren't something to shrug off so easily they had 2 other opportunities aside from the goal which were sure opportunities but were missed.

That is not closing up the game and running time down, that is living on the edge and tempting faith. We didn't just shift down a gear or two, we completely put it in neutral and let the game go as Verona pleased. That is not what most Italian sides do

Aside from that I'm really baffled with the changes Pippo made which created even more confusion and havoc in an already shaky defence and midfield.

Like I said, it's 3 points and they're what matter but there's still a lot that needs to be improved and still a lot more for Pippo to learn because as max pointed out earlier his substitutions screamed out noob in basically all of our games he does the extra mid + extra defender move which backfires.

[han2503]

You call this defending someone?

Yes I do, it wasn't him that made the gaffe and I corrected the person because we don't want the forum to be too focused on Muntari...

And yes I totally hate him (as a player), cannot stand watching him start games for us as he's nothing but a disgrace to the shirt

I don't know man. Maybe it's me then. But I'm getting tired of all this Muntari repetition over and over again. Yes, match threads are like this, but I think most of us are now overdoing it. Commenting even the slightest mistakes he makes and taking advantage of him and the fact that he's an easy target.

Again, I'm not defending Muntari. I'm just saying it's pretty much useless, commenting the obvious details.

I do it with all the players who do this because it's frustrating to watch supposed professionals make school yard mistakes. Watching Abbiati kick out right into the feet of an opposing player right in front of our penalty area for probably the 200th time in his career is frustrating, so I point it out, watching Essien take half an hour to get the ball out from under his feet before he attempts to pass it but loses it right in front of our area is frustrating, so I point it out and watching Muntari trying to assist the opposition in pretty much each game is frustrating for me as well, so I point it out.

Just because Muntari does it more often than most does not mean that we're overly obsessed with him, it means that's he's the one who's constantly making noticeable mistakes more often than the others, and we have to point them out because somehow this idiot is an automatic starter in this team which will never sit well with me