[acid911]

With obviously the chance that it could be faulty and never deliver what was advertised on the box

Agreed, but that's football. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good goes with bad, risk with luck and fortune with failure.

[X-Offender]

But those 2 points to me prove he isn't a top player.

He is a forward and should be able to play as a forward. He might be asked to do some things different, but a player will still always play towards his own style of play. If he isn't able to make such a minor change then he's not a top forward.

Top goalscorers dont need top service, that just helps. Even average strikers can score for fun if they have a great midfield behind them.

Call it hating, whatever.

Totally agreed. I'm tired of these arguments that because he's being a played in a position not suitable to his characteristics and/or he doesn't get much supply, the guy doesn't shine. A top player will always manage to thrive, regardless of the circumstances. If Pato doesn't manage to overcome his limitations, then he'll never become a world class striker. That's the brutal truth, dear Zed, han and co.

[han2503]

Can the Pato BS be put to rest for now? He's obviosly going nowhere, so what's the point of arguing about it when we all know it is a soar subject for most of the posters. At the end of the day we're not the ones who will be making the decision as to whether or not he should be given more time to prove himself

[Zed.D]

And yet you never proved why me arguement was wrong, both my points are both valid and currently correct. But I'm not going to get into it with someone who can't put together an arguement so they make things up or put words in your mouth as the below comment shows about you.

Don't get excited yet! here's your second point:

Top goalscorers dont need top service, that just helps.

Refer to these goals:

vs. Fiorentina (2008-09)
vs. Bremen (2008-09)
vs. Roma (2008-09)
vs. Siena (2008-09)
vs. Cagliari (2009-10)
vs. Bari (2010-11)
vs. Chievo (2010-11)
vs. Barcelona

All scored without any top service (and fantastically at that), therefore your point's not valid.

You'll have to explain your first point more, what do you mean by "such a minor change" that he can't make? to thrive with virtually zero support from the midfield?

Also you said:

both my points are both valid and currently correct.

I don't think you can make an assessment of a player based on how they're currently doing. you have to look at their whole career and take into consideration both the ups and downs of it. just because you think your arguments are "currently correct" doesn't mean you can make generalizations out of them as well.

Unless of course you can quote me on saying this?

If it offended you, then I apologize. but when you say what you don't think Pato is, but you don't say what you think he is, it can be interpreted any way. you can correct my assumption if it's wrong, but you can't question it.

[kurtsimonw]

and you are the guy who rates strikers according to their goalscoring ratio.

Can you source this with a quote please?

All scored without any top service (and fantastically at that), therefore your point's not valid.

You'll have to explain your first point more, what do you mean by "such a minor change" that he can't make? to thrive with virtually zero support from the midfield?

Top forwards don't need good service to score regularly. Pato is now in a midfield without top service and the goals have dried up. You gave what, 8 goals in 4 seasons where it wasn't the result of a great pass? I imagine even players like Berbatov (who isn't all that, in my opinion) have scored 8 in a season without great service.

Minor change as in he plays best in a front 2 and is currently paying in a front 2. Yet he's being excused because he's been asked to slightly change his game. Top players can adapt to make changes in my opinion. For example Seedorf played the Pirlo role at White Hart Lane and was great. Rooney played as a CM in a 4-4-2 this season and was great. Eto'o moved into a position as more of a winger for Inter and was great. Pato is playing where he wants to play and isn't getting it done. Not just the lack of goals, but he's had about 2 good games.

I don't think Pato is at the highest level. You may think he's one of the top 10 strikers about. I do not.

[William405]

Can you source this with a quote please?

I remember you justifying Bent's transfer price by saying that he scores X amounts of goals.I'm pretty sure of it,so don't worry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

I remember you justifying Bent's transfer price by saying that he scores X amounts of goals.I'm pretty sure of it,so don't worry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And did I say he's better than Rooney, van Persie or Ibrahimovic (who I believe he has a better scoring ratio than)? No. Justifying a price tag, for a striker, based on goals is a pretty sensible thing in my opinion.

[X-Offender]

Can the Pato BS be put to rest for now? He's obviosly going nowhere, so what's the point of arguing about it when we all know it is a soar subject for most of the posters. At the end of the day we're not the ones who will be making the decision as to whether or not he should be given more time to prove himself

But the rumors are still there. I'm pretty sure that if Pato doesn't excel in the remaining five months (and we sign Tevez), management will seriously consider selling him. Especially if the offer is around the €50 million tag.

[han2503]

But the rumors are still there. I'm pretty sure that if Pato doesn't excel in the remaining five months (and we sign Tevez), management will seriously consider selling him. Especially if the offer is around the €50 million tag.

I don't believe that any offer would even come anywhere near that. If Tevez is estimated at 35m by the big spenders than Pato would be a lot less given his problems, and to sell him around the 20 to 30m mark would be a huge waste.

50m is an unrealistic sum, those are usually the top stars in their prime who go for that amount.

Obviously if the offer was in fact that much than the management would have to consider it, same would go if we were offered that much for Thiago. It's a ridiculous sum and no one in their right minds wouldn't seriously consider it.

But in the end I think it will fall on what this club wants to achieve in the future. Tevez, Ibra, Cassano, Robinho, they're all very great for the here and now, but where will all of those be in 3 years time?? Probably none of them would still be Milan players.

While Pato, bad season or not, is one of the few jewels we have on the team. Imo, Pato, Thiago, Abate, Nocerino, Aquilani. They're the only players who have a long term future with Milan, thus the need to consider this carefully.

Also, rumours will always be there when top players are involved, no matter which way you look at it and the amount of money some clubs have to throw away. But sometimes you just have to ignore them as 75% of the time they're not true or greatly exxagerated. What I know for certain is that Milan never sold any of their top players in their prime, while they have given injury prone players like Ambro chance after chance to regain fitness, I'm sure this will be the case for Pato as well.

[kurtsimonw]

What I know for certain is that Milan never sold any of their top players in their prime,

I don't know about that. Sheva was 29, which I suppose you could argue is towards the end of his prime. But Kaka' was 27. In hindsight they don't seem as bad considering what happened to both after they left. But for all we know if they stayed, they'd have continued at their Milan level.

[han2503]

I don't know about that. Sheva was 29, which I suppose you could argue is towards the end of his prime. But Kaka' was 27. In hindsight they don't seem as bad considering what happened to both after they left. But for all we know if they stayed, they'd have continued at their Milan level.

Maybe, maybe not, but they certainly were not 22, while Kaka's knee problems were due to wear and tear due to the rough treatment he got on a weekly basis in Serie A.

I think the club knew what both players' medcal situations were when they were sold. At least with Kaka I am pretty sure of this, while Sheva mostly forced his way out, which is a bg difference from the club being the ones to sell him

[X-Offender]

I don't believe that any offer would even come anywhere near that. If Tevez is estimated at 35m by the big spenders than Pato would be a lot less given his problems, and to sell him around the 20 to 30m mark would be a huge waste.

50m is an unrealistic sum, those are usually the top stars in their prime who go for that amount.

Obviously if the offer was in fact that much than the management would have to consider it, same would go if we were offered that much for Thiago. It's a ridiculous sum and no one in their right minds wouldn't seriously consider it.

If Pastore, Aguero, Carroll and Falcao were sold for €40 million each, then Pato can sure as hell be sold for the same amount if not more. Besides, this is PSG we're talking about. They're the next City, money is not an issue to them. And with Leonardo and Ancelotti there, they'd strongly want him.

But in the end I think it will fall on what this club wants to achieve in the future. Tevez, Ibra, Cassano, Robinho, they're all very great for the here and now, but where will all of those be in 3 years time?? Probably none of them would still be Milan players.

While Pato, bad season or not, is one of the few jewels we have on the team. Imo, Pato, Thiago, Abate, Nocerino, Aquilani. They're the only players who have a long term future with Milan, thus the need to consider this carefully.

Also, rumours will always be there when top players are involved, no matter which way you look at it and the amount of money some clubs have to throw away. But sometimes you just have to ignore them as 75% of the time they're not true or greatly exxagerated. What I know for certain is that Milan never sold any of their top players in their prime, while they have given injury prone players like Ambro chance after chance to regain fitness, I'm sure this will be the case for Pato as well.

You also have to consider Pato's injury crises. What makes you sure that following his next 5-6 weeks-long injury, B&G's patience won't reach its limit? Simply being engaged to Barbera won't save his butt in the end. Let's not forget that Allegri prefers Robinho over him, and that with Tevez coming, things would get even more difficult and complicated. You're being too certain in your statements about Pato, but history has told us that there's nothing certain in football, and that in 6-7 months time, Pato might not be a Milan player anymore.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Jan 10 2012, 03:39 AM

[William405]

And did I say he's better than Rooney, van Persie or Ibrahimovic (who I believe he has a better scoring ratio than)? No. Justifying a price tag, for a striker, based on goals is a pretty sensible thing in my opinion.

You didn't,but you implied that a striker's main and most important function is scoring goals,no?And,it is a Pato has a very good goalscoring ratio.If you've also noticed he's been connecting with Ibrahimovic several times,it just needs some time...patnerships are not created after two,three games...etc...
Now,the thing is that you would want to sell Pato for 50million if the offer comes up,which I don't disagree with,it's a hige amount of money.But,your evaluation of Pato is simply too bias to be considered true.It's annoying how you pick a player,and constantly pick imo.I believe there is a minimum standard of objectivity when rating individuals.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Sheva mostly forced his way out, which is a bg difference from the club being the ones to sell him

Oh, yes this BS again, that's so much better than debating a potential Pato move, right.

I guess it's only BS if you don't agree with it.

[han2503]

Oh, yes this BS again, that's so much better than debating a potential Pato move, right.

I guess it's only BS if you don't agree with it.

I wasn't really the one who brought Sheva up to begin with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And those are the facts of his departure, if it were up to Silvio Sheva wouldn't have been sold as he was one of his favourites and he treated him like a son while he was a Milan player.

@ x-off, as much as I can't be sure of Pato's future, neither can you. Just because YOU and another few here are tired of waiting for Pato to get over his injuries does not mean that the management are giving up on him.

This is the reason I didn't want to see this debate being started up again as it causes these sorts of arguments