[kurtsimonw]

Complete embarrassment? What complete embarrassment?

Well, had he not scored they would have gone out in 90 minutes, depite playing an hour against 10 men. At home no less. That would be completely embarassing for a home nation, certainly one as good as Argentina.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Well, I don't agree.

1) people would be lambasting Ronaldo if the shoe was on the other foot, whereas they are praising Messi for doing the same

Look some people like Ronaldo and dislike Messi, or the opposite or both. What's the problem with people being subjective, I'll never understand?

Could you have quoted that more out of context, like seriously, could you? Please read the whole paragraph because this has been made into something completely different when it's from the paragraph:

I guess what it boils down too is personal preference, people would be lambasting Ronaldo if the shoe was on the other foot for this tournaments overall performance, whereas they are praising Messi for doing the same. And vice-versa for the CR7 followers.

--------------------------------

No one but you turned this into a Ronaldo vs. Messi debate. No one said Messi's performance was out of the planet, but I recall you saying it wasn't good.

That was in response to William saying 'I expect too much of Messi'. And some of the reasons there is this expectation on my part.

That's also a big miss IMO, because you really can't back up your initial statement. Bottom line is, you seem to be frustrated with "other people" and "some people", but you are talking here about Messi with us - of whom none said anything you stated as being over the top or irritating.

I'm not talking specifically about this tournament when I say 'he's talked of on another level' he is, you'd have to have found a beach and buried your head in it for the past few years to not notice this on TV etc. Well, he certainly is over here, the only time I've heard any criticism was when Gray mentioned something like he's not physical enough to play in the EPL against the bigger sides, which caused a little bit of uproar on here.

Back up my original statement?! I need proof of my opinion, I'm confused entirely by that. I guess I'd say the lack of goals, the overall performance in games bar the one. Though that's my opinion, not fact, obviously.

like Ash said, it's all down to personal preference. I think those that like Messi think his real self is with Barcelona and looks worse with his NT because they're anything but a team and those that are not very fond of him think his real self is with the NT and his Barcelona teammates make him look better.

Thank you.

Anyway Messi/CR7 debates always generates some life to this place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[acid911]

I guess I'd say the lack of goals, the overall performance in games bar the one.

Yup, against the underage boys of Costa Rica. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'd have expected to perform on another level myself against that U-23 team if I were a professional football player. I've keenly observed Messi for three straight NT tournaments, and he not only under-performs for Argentina, he also lacks leadership that Maradona possessed.

He is also a tad unlucky, but at the end of it all it's about stamping your authority on the proceedings.

[Fillipo Simone]

'm not talking specifically about this tournament when I say 'he's talked of on another level' he is, you'd have to have found a beach and buried your head in it for the past few years to not notice this on TV etc. Well, he certainly is over here, the only time I've heard any criticism was when Gray mentioned something like he's not physical enough to play in the EPL against the bigger sides, which caused a little bit of uproar on here.

Well, it's the English media then. I read German, Italian and Croatian papers, they don't do that to this extent. Messi sure isn't beyond criticism, that would be absurd.

Back up my original statement?! I need proof of my opinion, I'm confused entirely by that. I guess I'd say the lack of goals, the overall performance in games bar the one. Though that's my opinion, not fact, obviously.

So, I said Messi was good against Uruguay, you said you don't agree, but never told me - how do you rate his performance yesterday, not for the whole tournament? I asked - don't you think his assist and his movement which made Perez and a few others crazy and eventually resulted his expulsion isn't enough to say he was good?

Could you have quoted that more out of context, like seriously, could you? Please read the whole paragraph because this has been made into something completely different when it's from the paragraph:

Yes, sorry on that one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, had he not scored they would have gone out in 90 minutes, depite playing an hour against 10 men. At home no less. That would be completely embarassing for a home nation, certainly one as good as Argentina.

Well, I'm not a fan of counter-factual history, but if he hadn't scored maybe Perez would have been sent earlier or later off and the course of the game would have gone a total different way. I'm not an Argentina fan, but I really don't think yesterdays performance was an embarrassment.

[Danny]

I feel this Messi argument may have been caused by me. And I apologise for it, because my lord it gets tedious reading Messi V Ronaldo debates.

[Bluesummers]

Maicon is useless (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[nuh]

Maicon is useless (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

no not really..brazil improved soo much since they started using him

[Fillipo Simone]

I'd rather say Pato is useless.

[han2503]

Well that's that for Brazil... Not as single penalty scored!! Emberassing, they tried to hit anything aside from the goal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Jack Bauer]

Well that's that for Brazil... Not as single penalty scored!! Emberassing, they tried to hit anything aside from the goal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Wow, I didn't expect 0 from 4 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) But Brazil can only themselves to blame, they had some great chances but couldn't score even once during 120 minutes against a much inferior team. Pato alone missed few times from chances he usually convert.

[acid911]

Is there a time machine in the house? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I want to go back to the time of Ronaldo, the good old 90s, when the Brazil NT scored at will, and at the very least knew how to take penalties. Still, I was watching this as a neutral, I liked both teams, and Paraguay deserved to take it to the shootout and win it from there.

Uruguay vs Paraguay for the final, please. So be it, as both teams have earned it over the years.

[Jack Bauer]

Uruguay vs Paraguay for the final, please. So be it, as both teams have earned it over the years.

Uruguay vs Chile for me.

[kurtsimonw]

I hope Paraguay win it, be interesting to see if Miss Riquelme keeps her promise.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jul 17 2011, 11:02 PM

[acid911]

Uruguay vs Chile for me.

Yeah, that works too, as long as Uruguay wins it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I'm sentimental when it comes to Paraguay, but Chile's good too.

I hope Paraguay win it, be interesting to see if Mrs. Riquelme keeps her promise.

Promise, what promise? Enlighten, please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Having said that, I don't quite see Paraguayans going all the way, unless Uruguay falters in the semis somehow. Their defense is much more stronger than their attack, and you need the attacking firepower in the knockout stages, lest you want to leave it all to luck. Case in point: Brazil.

[Zed.D]

Surprisingly I'm not really sad that Copa America won't have two of its biggest names anymore. I just feel kind of fed up with and sick and tired of football in general! gonna take a break for a while...