[Milan Are Brilli...]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Well done Uruguay, Muslera what a game. Down to 10 men for most of the game and kept some of the World's best players incredibly quiet.

[acid911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headphone.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/graduated.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/freak.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

♫ Don't Cry For Me Argentina ♫ ♫ It won't be easy, you'll think it strange, and all that. ♫

Okay, okay, I would have liked them to crash out in the semis at least (being the host country and all), but seeing that it was Uruguay that they were facing, I had only one option. Nice match, shows that talent alone is not enough, you have to play as one, not eleven. My 2nd favorite team is in the last 4, yum, yum.

[arivanjj]

i have to say i loved the power behind uruguay's penalties, they didnt hold anything back and they deservingly won (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bluesummers]

pato better perfrom tomorrow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/guntootsmiley2.gif)

[William405]

I think you'll find it wasn't.

A case of bad memory,and wrong association cause it was in the premier league thread(if it wasn't then,I should go to a doctor or somethin),soz (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

Deserved heroic win by Uruguay. Tabarez managed to eliminate Argentina with pure magic. Down to 10 men after 40 minutes, Uruguay managed to hold on against a very good Messi. Their first subs came in the 110th minute for god sake, and they never stopped running around, defending, creating, passing,...

Especially Suarez, Gonzalez, Rios and A. Perreira did a brilliant job. Beside Muslera.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Uruguay managed to hold on against a very good Messi.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) That's a good Messi? He made an assist, which obviously the commentators claimed 'no one else in World Football would have been able to do'. He was also involved in the disallowed goal, aside of that he wasn't really in the game, apart from the chance right at the death, which was good defending as oppose to poor finishing.

Again he disappoints for Argentina overall in a competition.

[Fillipo Simone]

Yes, was overall disappointing.

But wait, you wouldn't call someone who's made a great assist, one more which resulted to a disallowed goal, managed to get an Uruguayan midfielder red carded - good in that particular match? Can't think of another word that would fit the seen. He sure wasn't average, that would be unfair.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

But wait, you wouldn't call someone who's made a great assist, one more which resulted to a disallowed goal, managed to get an Uruguayan midfielder red carded - good in that particular match? Can't think of another word that would fit the seen. He sure wasn't average, that would be unfair.

Well, the 2nd was disallowed so to me that might as well have been a 70 yard pass via a backheel it didn't count at the end of the day. The 1st was a good assist sure. I wouldn't call getting someone sent off a talent though, especially the way Perez was going, I mean he should have been sent off inside 4 minutes, that 1st 'tackle' was the most clear stamp, absolutely atrocious 'challenge'. I'd say 'below-expectations'. Messi needs to put the doubters wrong, and yes I am one of these because it's like Jekyll and Hyde watching him for Barca & Argentina.

Then people wonder why I, like others claim Lionel isn't the same guy without Xavi/Iniesta. It's for what he's shown in the Argentina side, and as he hasn't played in any other side, or look likely to play in any other side so there is that seed of doubt in my mind. Sure, he's not going to be useless anywhere, but the same player he is for Barca anywhere else I strongly doubt. Before people ask me my logic behind this I'm just going to say about his international performances compared to the ones for his club.

[William405]

Well, the 2nd was disallowed so to me that might as well have been a 70 yard pass via a backheel it didn't count at the end of the day. The 1st was a good assist sure. I wouldn't call getting someone sent off a talent though, especially the way Perez was going, I mean he should have been sent off inside 4 minutes, that 1st 'tackle' was the most clear stamp, absolutely atrocious 'challenge'. I'd say 'below-expectations'. Messi needs to put the doubters wrong, and yes I am one of these because it's like Jekyll and Hyde watching him for Barca & Argentina.

Then people wonder why I, like others claim Lionel isn't the same guy without Xavi/Iniesta. It's for what he's shown in the Argentina side, and as he hasn't played in any other side, or look likely to play in any other side so there is that seed of doubt in my mind. Sure, he's not going to be useless anywhere, but the same player he is for Barca anywhere else I strongly doubt. Before people ask me my logic behind this I'm just going to say about his international performances compared to the ones for his club.

I think you've really set high expectations for Messi that mostly comes from the media.I mean he can't dribble past 5 or 6 players every match and slot in a goal ,that rarely happens at an international level.He played great,and was arguably the best player for Argentina.Although,he lost the ball bit way too much where he could have give a pass.Of-course,he isn't the same player for Argentina as he is for Barca where he has spend most of his time(training with teammates there,playing most of the games).You can't expect him to be the same player at Argentina,and imo he still he isn't a leader yet,he's just a phenomenal player...

This post has been edited by William405: Jul 17 2011, 12:08 PM

[Milan Are Brilli...]

I think you've really set high expectations for Messi that mostly comes from the media.I mean he can't dribble past 5 or 6 players every match and slot in a goal ,that rarely happens at an international level.He played great,and was arguably the best player for Argentina.Although,he lost the ball bit way too much where he could have give a pass.Of-course,he isn't the same player for Argentina as he is for Barca where he has spend most of his time(training with teammates there,playing most of the games).You can't expect him to be the same player at Argentina,and imo he still he isn't a leader yet,he's just a phenomenal player...

When you have another player on this planet, who I believe is just as much the player of this generation (and the stats support the idea), having done it in different leagues & teams but it seems a majority almost talk about Messi as if he's on another level to him, then yes there is going to be a high expectation in all honesty.

I guess what it boils down too is personal preference, people would be lambasting Ronaldo if the shoe was on the other foot for this tournaments overall performance, whereas they are praising Messi for doing the same. And vice-versa for the CR7 followers.

You can tell the forum is pretty dead nowadays when we fall victim to this debate again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

Well, I don't agree.

1) people would be lambasting Ronaldo if the shoe was on the other foot, whereas they are praising Messi for doing the same

Look some people like Ronaldo and dislike Messi, or the opposite or both. What's the problem with people being subjective, I'll never understand?

2) When you have another player on this planet, who I believe is just as much the player of this generation (and the stats support the idea), having done it in different leagues & teams but it seems a majority almost talk about Messi as if he's on another level to him, then yes there is going to be a high expectation in all honesty.

No one but you turned this into a Ronaldo vs. Messi debate. No one said Messi's performance was out of the planet, but I recall you saying it wasn't good. That's also a big miss IMO, because you really can't back up your initial statement. Bottom line is, you seem to be frustrated with "other people" and "some people", but you are talking here about Messi with us - of whom none said anything you stated as being over the top or irritating.


So lastly, I'll say this: Ronaldo is a great player, Messi also. Both are phenomenal, Messi has a better character and therefore maybe more preferred by people. It is just ridiculous denying his talent and his brilliance just on an account of him not being the same for Argentina as for Barcelona. This argument could work with less talented players, but not with Messi. To me, it is pretty much irrelevant what Argentina wins or not, because I don't need another proof Messi is brilliant. I didn't need it for Maldini, didn't need it for Baresi, not for Weah and many other brilliant players that never won something with their NT.

[dst]

among many world class players who ALL looked poor against Uruguay, Messi was the only one that looked good... he was not great but I guess if he does not win games on his own he's disappointing.

his role at Barcelona is not even the same as with his NT. he's solely the provider in the latter (much more than usually in this tournament) and still, out of place, he managed to look a level above the Agueros and Higuains and Pastores.

like Ash said, it's all down to personal preference. I think those that like Messi think his real self is with Barcelona and looks worse with his NT because they're anything but a team and those that are not very fond of him think his real self is with the NT and his Barcelona teammates make him look better.

[kurtsimonw]

How dare you ***** at Higuain, the man who saved the Argies from complete embarassment.

[Fillipo Simone]

Complete embarrassment? What complete embarrassment?