[Jack Bauer]

I think it's time to move on and drop it. Everyone explained their position, no one is going to move an inch and it's just going around in circles.

[han2503]

You could look at in a different way though (not saying this is my opinion, just putting it out there). Pirlo was going nowhere with Inter. The club rescued him and put him alongside some of the best players in World football for a decade and gave him the opportunity to win. He then leaves and goes to Juve of all teams? For all we know he's gone to Juve for the same reason Leo went to Inter, to prove that the club made a mistake.

I don't see why there should be a problem with this debate, just don't get personal with each other.

Sure, but my problem is that at first the argument was that Pirlo was now cr@p, and when that didn't hold up it suddenly turned into a revenge mission.

Also I think Pirlo proved himself on the grandest of scales without the help of Milan by being a key figure for Italy in the WC, earning multiple MoM and other recognitions.

Pirlo never said anything bad about Milan, while he always wanted to remain in Italy. He wanted to move to a top club, so that leaves him with only our rivals as options, it's really not rocket science or some dark theory that people want to make up to make Pirlo look bad.

I'm not discussing personal opinions here. The way you talk about Ambrosini and Gattuso lacks something called 'being subtle'. This post I am quoting now is way more subtle than most of yours involving them.

And it does match my lack of respect to Pirlo easily.

I've seen you post stuf that practically compared Pirlo to cr@p and garbage, especially when his move went down. I've never said such things about Ambro and Rino. I've always drew a line because I actualy appriciate what they've given this team during their time at Milan. The worst I've said is probably that they're finished as players. How is that disrispectful? It's my oppinion of them at this point in time. I would love it if they stayed on at the club but not as squad players because I believe they've given us all they can in that capacity. I really don't see how this is disrispectful, I never bashed them or anything of the sort, while your blatant biased oppinion towards Pirlo just irks me to no end

[CHU-LIP]

I've seen you post stuf that practically compared Pirlo to cr@p and garbage, especially when his move went down. I've never said such things about Ambro and Rino.

Actually... you did. Several times.

[han2503]

Actually... you did. Several times.

Please show me some quotes, because I don't ever remember saying they're garbage.

I admitted that I never was a fan of Ambro's style and always preferred Rino over him in their hey days, but please show me where I said either was garbage.

Also saying they've played like cr@p and saying they're cr@p are 2 completely different things, so be careful of what you choose to quote (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CHU-LIP]

Please show me some quotes, because I don't ever remember saying they're garbage.

I admitted that I never was a fan of Ambro's style and always preferred Rino over him in their hey days, but please show me where I said either was garbage.

Also saying they've played like cr@p and saying they're cr@p are 2 completely different things, so be careful of what you choose to quote (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, I don't know where all the posts are, but after a quick search:

''since Rino and Ambro are barely even players anymore''

''Ambro personally I never rated since he always did ridiculous sh!t that never came off''

[han2503]

Well, I don't know where all the posts are, but after a quick search:

''since Rino and Ambro are barely even players anymore''

''Ambro personally I never rated since he always did ridiculous sh!t that never came off''

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) How is that saying they're garbage?

It's my oppinion on them as players now. Is it harsh? Yes I guess so, but saying that I think that they're barely even players anymore is so far off from saying that someone is garbage or cr@p

As for the Ambro comment, like I said, I never was a fan of his personal style of play, that's my oppinion so how is that disrispectful once again?

[acid911]

As for the Ambro comment, like I said, I never was a fan of his personal style of play, that's my oppinion so how is that disrispectful once again?

Not to jump into anything sinister here (seeing as I respect both Ambro and Pirlo, at least after all they have done and won in our colors), but couldn't the same be attributed towards say both CHU and Dru? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) That they are/were not really fans of the "ridiculous sh!t" Pirlo pulled off. Particularly after 2007 onwards?

The Pirlo I remember of these last four years is a massive step down from the one in 2004-07. I remember equal amounts of barbie-doll tackles, falling down at the merest of touches, misplaced passes, and giving away the ball in the wrong area at the wrong time that resulted in goals, as I do creative strokes and master through balls. Both in Milan and NT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Again, like I said, no disrespect intended, I would still have this Pirlo twice over than this Seedorf.

Unlike the Dutch, he still had something to offer, at least for another 3 years or more.

[han2503]

Not to jump into anything sinister here (seeing as I respect both Ambro and Pirlo, at least after all they have done and won in our colors), but couldn't the same be attributed towards say both CHU and Dru? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) That they are/were not really fans of the "ridiculous sh!t" Pirlo pulled off. Particularly after 2007 onwards?

The Pirlo I remember of these last four years is a massive step down from the one in 2004-07. I remember equal amounts of barbie-doll tackles, falling down at the merest of touches, misplaced passes, and giving away the ball in the wrong area at the wrong time that resulted in goals, as I do creative strokes and master through balls. Both in Milan and NT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Again, like I said, no disrespect intended, I would still have this Pirlo twice over than this Seedorf.

Unlike the Dutch, he still had something to offer, at least for another 3 years or more.

Fair enough, criticise his style of play then. Not say he's been cr@p for a while and try to make him out to be some money hungry wh@re for joing Juve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[acid911]

Fair enough, criticise his style of play then. Not say he's been cr@p for a while and try to make him out to be some money hungry wh@re for joing Juve

Fair enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) As for being money hungry, that is something we will never know. The management does, though, as they were the ones that went into negotiations. Personally I believe something should have been worked out between both parties, something manageable to keep the guy tied to us for another couple of years at least.

Allegri, I am afraid, had more than a subtle part to play in all this, he and his system has little space for creative players. More so, here in Milan seeing as he was delivered a Swedish ninja gift-wrapped. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) But to me, being an outsider looking in, the coach seems like a player that likes and wants to play swift, low-talented hacks than slow, creative maestros.

So yeah, there is the case of $$$ too, I can't believe it to be otherwise. Pirlo being filthy reach (family steel mills, anyone), earning the highest amount per year as an Italian player in the league (ahead of Totti and others), and things like that, and still both parties couldn't come to an arrangement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Sad state of affair. And frankly, likewise I fail to believe Juve were the only option, Napoli, Roma and Lazio too are clubs of smaller stature that could have used a player with the talents like our former number 21. Particularly Napoli, seeing that they are in the CL. And Juve are not. In fact, they are not even in Europe this year, any tournament.

Point being, it was all a clusterfudge, and all three parties are to blame one way or another: player, coach, management.

[han2503]

Fair enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) As for being money hungry, that is something we will never know. The management does, though, as they were the ones that went into negotiations. Personally I believe something should have been worked out between both parties, something manageable to keep the guy tied to us for another couple of years at least.

Allegri, I am afraid, had more than a subtle part to play in all this, he and his system has little space for creative players. More so, here in Milan seeing as he was delivered a Swedish ninja gift-wrapped. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) But to me, being an outsider looking in, the coach seems like a player that likes and wants to play swift, low-talented hacks than slow, creative maestros.

So yeah, there is the case of $$$ too, I can't believe it to be otherwise. Pirlo being filthy reach (family steel mills, anyone), earning the highest amount per year as an Italian player in the league (ahead of Totti and others), and things like that, and still both parties couldn't come to an arrangement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Sad state of affair. And frankly, likewise I fail to believe Juve were the only option, Napoli, Roma and Lazio too are clubs of smaller stature that could have used a player with the talents like our former number 21. Particularly Napoli, seeing that they are in the CL. And Juve are not. In fact, they are not even in Europe this year, any tournament.

Point being, it was all a clusterfudge, and all three parties are to blame one way or another: player, coach, management.

He's gotten a considerable pay cut at Juve. The duration of the contract was the main issue, while the fact that Allegri would rather player Flamini, Rino, VB in a midfield then have Pirlo in there is also a huge factor.

Anyways, we'll see how this will really effect us if we end up not bringing anyone in this summer and we're stuck with that hard utility midfield that we have now

[acid911]

Anyways, we'll see how this will really effect us if we end up not bringing anyone in this summer and we're stuck with that hard utility midfield that we have now

Agreed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) It remains to be seen how teams react to our tactics now that they've seen it all. The second year is going to be a lot tougher than the first, for a coach's perspective as well as the team. Luckily, we got a few extra soldiers to help us out, Paloschi and the Pharaoh guy to Mexes and Taiwo.

Not the best we could get, not the worst either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But totally agree, the lack of creativity in midfield is mind boggling.

[CHU-LIP]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) How is that saying they're garbage?

It's my oppinion on them as players now. Is it harsh? Yes I guess so, but saying that I think that they're barely even players anymore is so far off from saying that someone is garbage or cr@p

As for the Ambro comment, like I said, I never was a fan of his personal style of play, that's my oppinion so how is that disrispectful once again?

I don't see the difference to be honest.

And you made more posts, maybe some even more awful. But I'm not going to bother finding more.

Fair enough, criticise his style of play then. Not say he's been cr@p for a while and try to make him out to be some money hungry wh@re for joing Juve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I never called Pirlo a money hungry whore.

[han2503]

I don't see the difference to be honest.

And you made more posts, maybe some even more awful. But I'm not going to bother finding more.


I never called Pirlo a money hungry whore.

Hmm, I don't get how those 2 could mean the same thing to you. One is directly bashing a person, the other is a personal oppinion on a player and his contribution to a team. And I'm 100% sure that I never crossed the line and blatantly bashed a player. So say they mean the same all you want but those 2 scenarios are completely different from each other

Well you basically implied it, as well as implying he's a traitor for joing Juve and how that is the sudden reason as to why you bash him any time his name comes up, because you couldn't live with his treacherous self (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[CHU-LIP]

Well you basically implied it

That's exactly what you do with Ambrosini and Gattuso. You basicly implied them being crap over and over again.

[han2503]

That's exactly what you do with Ambrosini and Gattuso. You basicly implied them being crap over and over again.

Saying that they're barely players anymore does not mean I'm saying they're cr@p. It's my oppinion after watching them struggle to keep up for the last few years. Saying they're cr@p players versus acknowledging their physical limits (which imo both have reached) are 2 completely different things, once again.

You however have made multiple arguments about Pirlo's intentions, from money to being a trator and comparing him to Kaka and Sheva which is just ridiculous as Pirlo's case is nothing close to either situation with those 2

And when those arguments didn't stand up you said that Pirlo was basically cr@p and completely ruined our entire system thus it was a great decision to not renew with him