[Linkman]

I agree with Alskor. Ibra is hardly the pariah everyone makes him to be (so he may be a jerk, he's a very skilled forward type of jerk), and really, if we do get him on a loan paying just half his wage, that's so good a deal it's not even funny.

[vnata001]

No one doubts Dzeko is the superior player. I just dont see why would assume "he would be ours" next summer.

Yes, he made some comments last year... he also made comments recently about how happy he would be to go to Juve! If he has another big year every major club will be hot on him - and most of them are already. He's been mentioned with Man City a ton this summer. Also, what happens if Dzeko gets hurt? Or doesn't perform? You would really want to forgo a year of Ibra (who is 90% of Dzeko anyway) because of the chance it could mess up the possibility of us landing Dzeko next year? Huh?

I'll take Ibra now - essentially at a discount, too - over the chance we can get Dzeko next year.

Personally, I think Dzeko ends up at Man City next year. I would be disgusted if Milan passed on Ibra this year and that happened. With Ibra the team has a real shot at the Scudetto and can be very dangerous in Europe... and this could be our last shot with Ronaldinho, too.

If Ibra comes for free, I'm no idiot to say no.

I'm not blind. I mean, i know that today, there were times in the Trofeo Berlu Sr. match where some chipped balls into Borriello from Dinho and Pirlo were just barely shielded away from a defender by Borriello, and taken into an area where our attack was no longer dangerous. Now place Ibra in that situation, and we may have seen an unpredictably brilliant flick across the face of goal, or perfect set up for a blaster from one of our mids attacking the top of the 18. Instead, we had lumbering Marco BORE-iello just shielding, and nothing else. I know why you guys see Ibra as such an attractive prospect.

And to be honest, when Ibra was all set to be headed our way after Juve was relegated, I was genuinely excited to have him. But he showed there, that whoever he played for didn't matter. He wanted to be on the best team, and he wanted to get paid. He's no leader. On the other hand, Dzeko just captained Woflsburg against Bayern yesterday. Stark Contrast.

How many times does Dzeko need to say "I'm flattered, but want to wait and see." Maybe I'm seeing this with rose-tints, but "waiting to see" means "MILAN, MAKE A BID FOR ME." The guy repeats his devotion to us over and over. Sure, he creates a stink when Wolfsburg turns down Juve's advances, because he's pissed theyre not even letting him consider it. But do you think if Milan and Juve both were after him, he'd pick them over us?

Honestly, if we sign Ibrahimovic, and us signing him means that we drop our interest in Dzeko...I hope Dzeko goes to Inter. And I hope he scores against us, and kisses the Inter badge. And I hope he stays at Inter for the rest of his career. And I hope that Ibra doesn't win the scudetto, doesn't win CL, demands to leave, and is sold to Madrid (where he proceeds to flop.)

Dzeko is 24, Ibra is 29. They both cost the same. One would give his all for the shirt, the other would put the SECOND a hint of anything wasn't going his way. Think about age: When pato is 24, Ibra will be 33. Dzeko would be 28. Dzeko and Pato would be playing with eachother for a greater portion of their best years than Ibra and Pato would.

And Ronnie's window is closing? Doesn't bother me really. I'd rather think more long term. Let's give a bright attacking mid the chance to play behind Pato and Dzeko, say Pirlo?. Play Ambro as stopper, and Boateng and Flam as 'liberos'. We're better suited for a 4-3-1-2 anyways. Dinho forces us to play with wingers, and forces pato to develop in other areas rather than focusing on pure finishing. Insert someone like Ganso in the middle, or Elia on the wing, edit: i'd also like to mention Guissepe Rossi, and Pedro Leon would've done nicely too. and for me Ronnie is sufficiently replaced.

Ibra the d-bag, or Dzeko the devout milanista. I'll suffer through a season of Borriello and Huntelaar impotence, rather than see Mr. "I'm bigger than any club I am at" Ibrahimo-b*tch.

This post has been edited by vnata001: Aug 23 2010, 07:37 AM

[Jack Sparrow]

I'm definitely for landing Ibra on loan.

I'm also really happy about the direction Milan are going this transfer market. Getting Boateng on loan is a masterstroke. I think of this as a test drive. He's one of the better box to box midfielders, and getting him on loan is the best way to check how well a player of that type fits in our system. If he's successful, we could buy him, or maybe even buy a much better box-to-box knowing that this type of player suits our system.

Dzeko on loan is not gonna happen. Purchasing him is a huge risk. The kind of monetary risk we can't and shouldn't indulge in. What if he turns out like Diego or KJH. We're screwed. I'll take Dzeko for when we actually have a strong base on which to stand on..and once the team stabilises. To buy him now, is to put a lot of undue pressure on him to succeed immediately and that's not going to happen. Every one of our purchases who turned out to be huge stars have done so when they came in during moments of stability.

Eg. Sheva, Kaka, even Pato (we were not playing too well...but the team was stable)

Right now, the team is changing, the coach is different, the strategy is different. We need strong talented experienced professionals who can handle specialised jobs without a protective umbrella over them.

In other words right now, while the rest of the team and the the club's future blueprint is being made what Milan requires is:

(IMG:http://www.arm-film.com/film_pictures/The%20Expendables.jpg)

and not this

(IMG:http://djbezzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/karate-kid.jpg)

If we can land Ibra on loan, and maybe also Diego (considering Juve landed Aquilani)...and if we can offload Janku, Adiyiah and Kaladze....this is a very strong team for this season.

Currently Max Allegri rates us at 70% shape. I'm pretty happy. We fought Juve well yesterday (at 70%), and this was with Juve having started pre-season a couple of weeks (or more) earlier than us.

[alskor]

And to be honest, when Ibra was all set to be headed our way after Juve was relegated, I was genuinely excited to have him. But he showed there, that whoever he played for didn't matter. He wanted to be on the best team, and he wanted to get paid. He's no leader. On the other hand, Dzeko just captained Woflsburg against Bayern yesterday. Stark Contrast.

How many times does Dzeko need to say "I'm flattered, but want to wait and see." Maybe I'm seeing this with rose-tints, but "waiting to see" means "MILAN, MAKE A BID FOR ME." The guy repeats his devotion to us over and over. Sure, he creates a stink when Wolfsburg turns down Juve's advances, because he's pissed theyre not even letting him consider it. But do you think if Milan and Juve both were after him, he'd pick them over us?

Who cares if he's a leader? Look at the teams he's been on - they've done pretty damn well.

Did his "lack of leadership" hold back any of the teams that won these honors?:

Ajax

* Eredivisie: 2002, 2004
* KNVB Cup: 2002
* Johan Cruijff Shield: 2003

Internazionale

* Serie A: 2007, 2008, 2009
* Supercoppa Italiana: 2006, 2008

Barcelona

* Supercopa de España: 2009, 2010
* UEFA Super Cup: 2009
* FIFA Club World Cup: 2009
* La Liga: 2010

No! In fact, he was a crucial part in all those teams.

Dzeko is 24, Ibra is 29. They both cost the same. One would give his all for the shirt, the other would put the SECOND a hint of anything wasn't going his way. Think about age: When pato is 24, Ibra will be 33. Dzeko would be 28. Dzeko and Pato would be playing with eachother for a greater portion of their best years than Ibra and Pato would.

(etc...)

You're making the same argument - We all agree Dzeko is better!

They're not the same cost, though. That's pretty clear at this point. Wolfsburg has made it known a billion times they absolutely will not sell Dzeko this close season. Its not going to happen. The price next summer is going to be very high, IMO. I'd really like Dzeko. I'd also really like Messi, Ribery, Neymar & Wayne Rooney. They aren't available. Ibra is - cheaply - and can really help this team. I just can't pass that up on the hopes we work something out next year. A whole lot changes in a year. If I had asked anyone in August 2009 where Ribery would be now they probably would have said Madrid (or maybe some Chelsea answers). Die Bayern made the CL finals and Ribery signed an extension. He might also end up in jail. A WHOLE lot changes in a year.

Ibra the d-bag, or Dzeko the devout milanista.

What a Milanista! (from August 12th):

Edin Dzeko says he is "infuriated" by Wolfsburg's refusal to negotiate with Juventus

Dzeko:

"Dieter Hoeness told me that the agreements made last season are no longer valid, because they were made by coach Armin Veh and manager Frank Aehlig. I want to play for an important club and the Wolfsburg directors know that.

"I have clearly stated that Juventus represent the best option for me. My contract clause of €40 million should not have been an obstacle to my sale, it was introduced last summer to look after the club.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...901&cc=5901

He loves Milan so much that less than two weeks ago he told the press "Juventus represent the best option for me." Its not like this kid grew up in Milan - he's from Sarajevo. Milan was just the first huge club to show interest in him.

I don't know what you've built up about Dzeko in your head, but he's a big time footballer and probably isn't all that different from Ibra. Next summer I expect to hear how he's always loved Man City or Real, etc... This stuff means nothing anymore to me, because they all say it all the time.

I think Dzeko is a fantastic player. Love to have him come to Milan. I don't think its happening any time soon.

I would prefer Ibra on a loan as opposed to buying him... but if we can buy him at a discount that's fine too. I don't think you can pass him up. He could be the difference between making the knockout stages or not... maybe even finishing in top 4/Europe or not if things break poorly. That's a whole lot to potentially give up on the hopes we can work out something with Dzeko next summer - especially when other big clubs are lurking. If Dzeko really is such a Milanista that he demands to come here next summer I'm sure we'll be able to find a landing spot for Ibra. Hell, maybe we can loan him back to Juve. Do you know what else might attract Dzeko next summer? If we don't suck this year. Missing out on Europe is a way to 100% guarantee Dzeko won't want to come here.

[vnata001]

Who cares if he's a leader? Look at the teams he's been on - they've done pretty damn well.

Did his "lack of leadership" hold back any of the teams that won these honors?:



No! In fact, he was a crucial part in all those teams.


You're making the same argument - We all agree Dzeko is better!

They're not the same cost, though. That's pretty clear at this point. Wolfsburg has made it known a billion times they absolutely will not sell Dzeko this close season. Its not going to happen. The price next summer is going to be very high, IMO. I'd really like Dzeko. I'd also really like Messi, Ribery, Neymar & Wayne Rooney. They aren't available. Ibra is - cheaply - and can really help this team. I just can't pass that up on the hopes we work something out next year. A whole lot changes in a year. If I had asked anyone in August 2009 where Ribery would be now they probably would have said Madrid (or maybe some Chelsea answers). Die Bayern made the CL finals and Ribery signed an extension. He might also end up in jail. A WHOLE lot changes in a year.



What a Milanista! (from August 12th):


Dzeko:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...901&cc=5901

He loves Milan so much that less than two weeks ago he told the press "Juventus represent the best option for me." Its not like this kid grew up in Milan - he's from Sarajevo. Milan was just the first huge club to show interest in him.

I don't know what you've built up about Dzeko in your head, but he's a big time footballer and probably isn't all that different from Ibra. Next summer I expect to hear how he's always loved Man City or Real, etc... This stuff means nothing anymore to me, because they all say it all the time.

I think Dzeko is a fantastic player. Love to have him come to Milan. I don't think its happening any time soon.

I would prefer Ibra on a loan as opposed to buying him... but if we can buy him at a discount that's fine too. I don't think you can pass him up. He could be the difference between making the knockout stages or not... maybe even finishing in top 4/Europe or not if things break poorly. That's a whole lot to potentially give up on the hopes we can work out something with Dzeko next summer - especially when other big clubs are lurking. If Dzeko really is such a Milanista that he demands to come here next summer I'm sure we'll be able to find a landing spot for Ibra. Hell, maybe we can loan him back to Juve. Do you know what else might attract Dzeko next summer? If we don't suck this year. Missing out on Europe is a way to 100% guarantee Dzeko won't want to come here.

all fair points. i guess the way i see it is, if we do land ibra, our hopes for dzeko are gone. i'd rather one over the other. one is younger and wants to be here. he's a better long term investment. and without any prompting, he mentioned milan as his favorite club initially. it's clear in the quotes you hilighted he said Juve represented the best situation for him to leave Wolfsburg now. That's cuz we're not bidding. That's why i think it'd be so hypocritical if we splurge a major fee for Ibra when IMO Dzeko is more worthy of the investment.

aside from the pato purchase, if we essentially choose ibra over dzeko, it'll add to a long list of decisions that i've disagreed with our management on in recent history with regards to market operations in our striking department. gilardino, oliveira, ronaldo, huntelaar, borriello have all been questionable to some degree, each for different reasons.

At the end of the day, if it happens in an economically astute way, there is no way in hell i'd say no to ronnie-ibra-pato. ibra is good enough to shut me up.

This post has been edited by vnata001: Aug 23 2010, 07:54 AM

[Bluesummers]

I'm definitely for landing Ibra on loan.

I'm also really happy about the direction Milan are going this transfer market. Getting Boateng on loan is a masterstroke. I think of this as a test drive. He's one of the better box to box midfielders, and getting him on loan is the best way to check how well a player of that type fits in our system. If he's successful, we could buy him, or maybe even buy a much better box-to-box knowing that this type of player suits our system.

Dzeko on loan is not gonna happen. Purchasing him is a huge risk. The kind of monetary risk we can't and shouldn't indulge in. What if he turns out like Diego or KJH. We're screwed. I'll take Dzeko for when we actually have a strong base on which to stand on..and once the team stabilises. To buy him now, is to put a lot of undue pressure on him to succeed immediately and that's not going to happen. Every one of our purchases who turned out to be huge stars have done so when they came in during moments of stability.

Eg. Sheva, Kaka, even Pato (we were not playing too well...but the team was stable)

Right now, the team is changing, the coach is different, the strategy is different. We need strong talented experienced professionals who can handle specialised jobs without a protective umbrella over them.

agree entirely with all this jack. Great post. I also think that dzeko is a huge risk at 40m. We don't have that kind of money to spend. If he turns out world class then great! If he flops then we basically have no money for 2 transfer windows to replace him.

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Aug 23 2010, 08:11 AM

[Jack Sparrow]

Exactly. While we stand to gain a lot, we also stand to lose a lot more. It's good to see we're planning for the future by building from the back.

Centre back looks good, and goal.com is running a story saying we're negotiating with Bochetti. This is told by his agent.

That's a monster defence being created. Post Nesta we're looking at:

T.Silva>Papa>Bocchetti>Bonera>youth team player just for the CB position.

Fullbacks are a lot harder to find these days. We might have to wait a while. Maybe we'll splash the cash on Criscito..who knows. Or De Vito will be good enough.

Our mid-field doesn't have to be rebuilt for another 2-3 years...we just need additions.

Personally, I'm not in favour of a Pirlo alternative. That's a waste of time. Without Pirlo, we need to look at an entirely different formation.

[Bluesummers]

Exactly. While we stand to gain a lot, we also stand to lose a lot more. It's good to see we're planning for the future by building from the back.

Centre back looks good, and goal.com is running a story saying we're negotiating with Bochetti. This is told by his agent.

That's a monster defence being created. Post Nesta we're looking at:

T.Silva>Papa>Bocchetti>Bonera>youth team player just for the CB position.

Fullbacks are a lot harder to find these days. We might have to wait a while. Maybe we'll splash the cash on Criscito..who knows. Or De Vito will be good enough.

Our mid-field doesn't have to be rebuilt for another 2-3 years...we just need additions.

Personally, I'm not in favour of a Pirlo alternative. That's a waste of time. Without Pirlo, we need to look at an entirely different formation.

Milan will be a great team again, I have lot of confidence in the mgmt right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Also we do have a pirlo replacement coming, fossati (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) He'll make it into the team next year i'm sure.




--

We've spent approx. 15 M euros this window so far:

Daminuta= 1m
Filkor=1m
Fossatti=5m
Sokratis=6m
Amelia=500k Loan Fee.
Boateng=500k Loan Fee.
11 youth players= 5m
Yepes=Free

=19m E spent

Sales:

Storari=4-4.5m


=14.5-15m spent out of our own pockets.


Pretty good so far imo.


------

We also released about 5m off our wage bill with Dida and Favalli retiring.

We extended Zambrotta and Oddo and now they earn 2m and 1.5m respectively a season for the next 2 years.


=8.5m

If we get rid of kaladze and janku, thats another 7m off the wage bill! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


*jizz action*



Ibra here we come (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Aug 23 2010, 10:16 AM

[Bluesummers]

news:


Ibra deal looks closer to finalization. We are however trying to give Barca a deal.

We are going to give them borriello on loan so they have a back up. If they reject the deal; we will sell borriello to madrid as mourinho is currently looking for a striker.

Allegri: "Ibra is a great champion, I would be happy to train him"




-As jack posted earlier, we are after bocchetti. This may be our third loan of the season.

Milannews.it

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Aug 23 2010, 10:27 AM

[Jack Bauer]

Also we do have a pirlo replacement coming, fossati (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) He'll make it into the team next year i'm sure.

Have you seen him play? I heard good things about this kid.

About Ibra, I never liked him and his attitude, but with his arrival, our chances to actually win something this season are significantly higher. And of course - the team is above all.

[d'Arc.LP]

You're making the same argument - We all agree Dzeko is better!

I don't.

Dzeko could be better than Ibrahimovic IN the future IF he succeeds.

I'm not going to argue for something that none of you will agree with, so maybe this is personal choice. I find Ibrahimovic one of the best strikers who ever lived.

Ibrahimovic is smarter than Dzeko, is taller and better header, has more powerful shot, plays with both legs, physically better, better finisher, MUCH better assitant, faster, great leader and a lot of other things too. I'm not saying this based on my FM2010 team, but based on the games of both players.
We all know that maybe Ibra isn't the biggest Milan fan, but he rejected a BIG contract from City just to join Milan, that means something. Dzeko showed is pure love, not only for Milan but for Juventus too.

Like Jack said, we can not risk to take someone who can easily flop, we need someone full of experience and with great abilities.

[Fishdoll]

d'arc, we can turn that one on its head -- how can we be sure Ibrahimovic won't flop at Milan? He didn't exactly light up the Bernabeu.

I think people are perhaps a little too optimistic in thinking that Barcelona will be willing to pay part of his wages or that they'll accept a super cut rate deal. And if serious $$$ is involved, I think Dzeko is a better bet.

In other news, tuttomercatoweb is reporting tuttosport in saying that Milan and the gobbi are working on a trade -- Kaladze for Grosso.

[han2503]

d'arc, we can turn that one on its head -- how can we be sure Ibrahimovic won't flop at Milan? He didn't exactly light up the Bernabeu.

I think people are perhaps a little too optimistic in thinking that Barcelona will be willing to pay part of his wages or that they'll accept a super cut rate deal. And if serious $$$ is involved, I think Dzeko is a better bet.

In other news, tuttomercatoweb is reporting tuttosport in saying that Milan and the gobbi are working on a trade -- Kaladze for Grosso.

They can keep Grosso. We'll give them Kaladze for free (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[d'Arc.LP]

d'arc, we can turn that one on its head -- how can we be sure Ibrahimovic won't flop at Milan? He didn't exactly light up the Bernabeu.

I think people are perhaps a little too optimistic in thinking that Barcelona will be willing to pay part of his wages or that they'll accept a super cut rate deal. And if serious $$$ is involved, I think Dzeko is a better bet.

Last season Ibrahimovic played in 42 games, scoring 23 goals, and making 9 assist. He was very good last season and he also scored a goal in El Classico.
Ibrahimovic proved he is born for Serie A and there's no way that he will flop at Milan, knowing he will play together with Pato and Ronaldinho.

Barcelona don't have to pay his wages. Milan will loan Ibra with an option to buy in the end of the season. Ibrahimovic's wage will be from 6.5 - 9.5 mil Euro that's not sure, but Berlusconi asked all the sponsors to pay Ibra's 50 % of the wage, and Milan will pay 50 %.

If a serious cash is involved, I'd like my cash to be "safe" and I'd buy Ibrahimovic before Dzeko.

Owen, Cassano, Diego, ... failed in the past becouse they were young and with no experience. So is Dzeko and there's a possibility that he could fail.
Coming from Germany to Italy is one big deal and Dzeko will not score with ease against Italian teams like he did in Germany.

They can keep Grosso. We'll give them Kaladze for free (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I think this is going to happen :

Bocchetti - Jankulovski (exchange)
Kaladze leaves to make a free place for Boccheti.
Grosso comes to take the backup spot Jankulovski left.

[Dzeko]

I wrote it before Milan make mistake when we could snipe Dzeko last year for 20 Mil €, we even sign pre agreement with him... How many time i have to say that Edin loves Milan, one time he even say that he would play for free... Juventus interest was week and really he wasn't much into it, he didn't want to go to club that don't play CL, for your information Juventus made aggrement with Wolfsburg but it was Edin and his manager that turn down the deal.
Next year im 100% that he will play eather Bayern Munich or Milan...