[kapa1]

^ +1...han2503 said it all and please stop about dinho cuz this is summer transfers thread, not dinho thread...

[Fishdoll]

Again, trying to make this into some Brazilian agenda. Even though you didn't say it I know that's what you meant by it. I don't understand why you have to bring in other players into this since it involves Dinho. I didn't see you complaing when me and kurt would have one of our never ending arguments regarding Rino and Ambro.

And we've all complemented players who deserved to be complemented this season. If this was a Bori vs Hunter debate you know that I would be behind Bori 100% as I think he was great this season, and I'm not even talking about his goals when I say this.

And other players are not being noticed? Everyone has raved about Antonini, Nesta, Thiago, Bori and Ambro this season, So I can't see your point on that one, aside from trying to point out that only the Brazilians are complemented on this team while the others (Italian) are treated like seconds, when that is simply not true

No, I don't really think it's a brazilian thing. It's more of a 'not the local boys' thing. I think everyone on the board but me, Kurt, and whoarethepatriots preferred - vocally - Flamini to either of the other defensive mids (and I do not recall you ever raving about him). I've seen repeated comments this season about how Nesta's past it and Thiago's carrying him. I've seen a lot of 'Borriello sucks, sell him' comments; that said, on this one it seems to be about even with the 'Huntelaar sucks, sell him' sentiment. The one exception has been Antonini.

I mantain that for the majority of boardmembers there is a bias - conscious or not - against the Italian players on the squad and that the foreigners - some at least, to include Pato, Silva, Ronaldinho and Flamini this season - are held to a much lighter standard than are Borriello, Nesta, Ambro, etc.

[Dracoris]

Do you also concede that perhaps Milan has other players who are halfway decent?

Woah, absolutely 100%. Antonini, Pato, Ambro to name just a few.

[Bluesummers]

Um. No, not so much. At least not according to Milan's audited financial statements. We don't pay the taxes on wages according to the audit.

So then how does it work? We pay for example 8m to dinho than after taxes his wage is 4m?

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jun 1 2010, 08:10 PM

[Fishdoll]

I'm not sure the tax rate is at 50% in Italy but basically yeah. They pay income tax like everyone else. According to the 2008 audit (the most recent one published) player wages in total were 162.13 million for 48 total players. We paid a total of 1.3 million in income tax -- I correct myself there, didn't think we paid any - but it's not indicated who it's for. Even so, 1.3 million is less than 1% of 162 million.

I've got a friend who's working on a financial analysis of the club, will share data when that's done.

[mishie]

the tax rate in Italy is 43% for anyone earning over €75,000 p.a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Bluesummers]

My question to you guys all is why are we arguing over Ronaldinho like he's kaka?


He is worth at most 15-20m Euros. He is 30 years old. Hi swage demands are high. Who are we exactly going to sell him to and what is the garuantee that the transfer money will be used wisely?


I personally think we should focus on other areas like fullbacks/midfield/striker etc that require attention.

[han2503]

No, I don't really think it's a brazilian thing. It's more of a 'not the local boys' thing. I think everyone on the board but me, Kurt, and whoarethepatriots preferred - vocally - Flamini to either of the other defensive mids (and I do not recall you ever raving about him). I've seen repeated comments this season about how Nesta's past it and Thiago's carrying him. I've seen a lot of 'Borriello sucks, sell him' comments; that said, on this one it seems to be about even with the 'Huntelaar sucks, sell him' sentiment. The one exception has been Antonini.

I mantain that for the majority of boardmembers there is a bias - conscious or not - against the Italian players on the squad and that the foreigners - some at least, to include Pato, Silva, Ronaldinho and Flamini this season - are held to a much lighter standard than are Borriello, Nesta, Ambro, etc.

Well I think you're the only one that sees that. And that's why it irritates me so much when you bring that up. You make me fell like a cannot even say a positive thing about a player that is not Italian because you'll immediately jump to the conclusion that we have some anti Italian agenda, when that is not the case. I personally love everything that is Italian, I support the Azzurri, Milan, Ferrari and my favourite foods are pizza and pasta, yet I also like Flamini's playing style, think Thiago Silva is a great defender in the making, Pato is awesome and that Dinho redeemed himself, at least in my eyes. I don't understand how that makes me biased toward the Italians, seeing as most of my favourite players are that and find it just as easy to complement them as it is to complement Pato, Flamini and the others you mentioned.

At the end of the day this is club footbal, if you don't want to see any foreigners on the team you might as well only watch the Azzurri every two years...

Also Nesta has been nothing short of bowed down to on this forum this season, Boriello yes has been criticised by some but strikers tend to evoke that reaction from people. Ambro is a moot point for me, I admit that e was amazing for the first half of the season, maybe even through January, and I've admitted this a million times even though it pains me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Although I still think that Rino on a good day wipes his @ss out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[Bluesummers]

the tax rate in Italy is 43% for anyone earning over €75,000 p.a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

wow, Thats shocking!

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jun 1 2010, 08:25 PM

[Bluesummers]

Well I think you're the only one that sees that. And that's why it irritates me so much when you bring that up. You make me fell like a cannot even say a positive thing about a player that is not Italian because you'll immediately jump to the conclusion that we have some anti Italian agenda, when that is not the case. I personally love everything that is Italian, I support the Azzurri, Milan, Ferrari and my favourite foods are pizza and pasta, yet I also like Flamini's playing style, think Thiago Silva is a great defender in the making, Pato is awesome and that Dinho redeemed himself, at least in my eyes. I don't understand how that makes me biased toward the Italians, seeing as most of my favourite players are that and find it just as easy to complement them as it is to complement Pato, Flamini and the others you mentioned.

At the end of the day this is club footbal, if you don't want to see any foreigners on the team you might as well only watch the Azzurri every two years...

Also Nesta has been nothing short of bowed down to on this forum this season, Boriello yes has been criticised by some but strikers tend to evoke that reaction from people. Ambro is a moot point for me, I admit that e was amazing for the first half of the season, maybe even through January, and I've admitted this a million times even though it pains me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Although I still think that Rino on a good day wipes his @ss out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

+1 beautiful post

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jun 1 2010, 08:27 PM

[han2503]

My question to you guys all is why are we arguing over Ronaldinho like he's kaka?

He is worth at most 15-20m Euros. He is 30 years old. Hi swage demands are high. Who are we exactly going to sell him to and what is the garuantee that the transfer money will be used wisely?

I personally think we should focus on other areas like fullbacks/midfield/striker etc that require attention.

Well I don't really get what you're trying to say here blue. But basically no one here is saying that Dinho is in anyway untouchable. But let's face it, he was great last season, and given the fact that we have so many other problem areas in the squad we should no be paying attaention to an area (Dinho's position) that is in good shape when the other areas of the team are the real problem not Dinho

Basically don't fix what's not broken.

[Zed.D]

My last post re this debate:

I agree with han, Jack, Dracoris, etc.
Disagree X-Off, I_Ross, Fishdoll, etc.

Finito. oh that's so easy!

[Bluesummers]

Well I don't really get what you're trying to say here blue. But basically no one here is saying that Dinho is in anyway untouchable. But let's face it, he was great last season, and given the fact that we have so many other problem areas in the squad we should no be paying attaention to an area (Dinho's position) that is in good shape when the other areas of the team are the real problem not Dinho

Basically don't fix what's not broken.

What i'm trying to say is if we could sell him for a decent price (30m), which we can't; I would be all for it. But given our mgmt's incompetence in the past few years; selling dinho will be a mistake as we probably will pocket the money instead of spending it.

I say keep him because there are other areas that need more attention. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jun 1 2010, 08:32 PM

[Fishdoll]

Well I think you're the only one that sees that. And that's why it irritates me so much when you bring that up. You make me fell like a cannot even say a positive thing about a player that is not Italian because you'll immediately jump to the conclusion that we have some anti Italian agenda, when that is not the case. I personally love everything that is Italian, I support the Azzurri, Milan, Ferrari and my favourite foods are pizza and pasta, yet I also like Flamini's playing style, think Thiago Silva is a great defender in the making, Pato is awesome and that Dinho redeemed himself, at least in my eyes. I don't understand how that makes me biased toward the Italians, seeing as most of my favourite players are that and find it just as easy to complement them as it is to complement Pato, Flamini and the others you mentioned.

At the end of the day this is club footbal, if you don't want to see any foreigners on the team you might as well only watch the Azzurri every two years...

Also Nesta has been nothing short of bowed down to on this forum this season, Boriello yes has been criticised by some but strikers tend to evoke that reaction from people. Ambro is a moot point for me, I admit that e was amazing for the first half of the season, maybe even through January, and I've admitted this a million times even though it pains me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Although I still think that Rino on a good day wipes his @ss out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

No, I don't think I'm the only one. I'm just the only one stubborn enough to comment on it.

You guys are the ones who make me feel I can't say anything positive about Ambro or Pippo or Pirlo or Nesta or quite a few others without being slammed for it -- and take a look, han, there's been rather a lot in the last 6 months that's been all 'Silva's the best cb we have, Nesta's past it, glad his contract is up' stuff.

Admitted, Antonini is the one we all seem to agree has done well.

That said, the only time I recall you complimenting Ambrosini is when it's followed by...'but he's sucked since january, Flamini should start in his place' or something like that.

I have no problem at all with players being praised or criticized if such is warranted. What I'm saying and have BEEN saying for the last couple of years here is that it's not being done equally to all players on this board.

[han2503]

My last post re this debate:

I agree with han, Jack, Dracoris, etc.
Disagree X-Off, I_Ross, Fishdoll, etc.

Finito. oh that's so easy!

LOL

Cop out!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)