[d'Arc.LP]

Oh come on!!!!

Why do this everytime?? Turn it into Brazil vs Italy? It's getting old, no one here cares what nationality either coach is, especially me, seeing as I'm an Azzurri fan. And I can easily name you a couple of ITALIAN coaches who I think are better then Carlo.


Most of them being when he had arguably the best squad in Europe...

What the heck ?!
In 2007 NO ONE , neither Berlusconi believed we can win CL.
We had only Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf and Kaka who were doing well ! The rest of the team was under average. With no good striker (like Henry,Sheva,Rooney,...) the CL is almost impossible to win and guess who won it ?

[han2503]

Han, I'm not the one doing it, you are. You may be an azzurri fan but you're hypercritical of most Italians connected with Milan (Maldini being the lone exception that comes to mind) while you hold up the Brazilians as being above criticism. I'm merely pointing it out.

I'm doing it???

I compared Leo to Carlo because Leo is the only other coach we've had recently. What does it have to do with him being Brazilian? You're the one bringing up the issue when anyone even mentions a Brazilian player in a positive light. You know I knew this discussion would end up here as you always manage to somehow bring this argument as the 'final say'. It's like we're all out to get the Italian players and dip the Brazilian ones in goal. When that clearly is not the case for any of us.

And Maldini is the only Italian I like??

Pirlo, Rino, Zambro, Nesta, Antonini, Boriello, Pippo (in his days), Abate, all are big favourite Italian players of mine who all play for Milan. Then I can go on to list all the players that are Italian who I like from other teams but that list would be endless, let's not all forget the endless arguments me ans max used to have over Gila back in the days. And when it comes to Brazilians the only Brazialian players that I like are usually Milan players. I really have no interest in any others that don't play for my team. So I'm wondering how this makes me an Italian player hater?

What the heck ?!
In 2007 NO ONE , neither Berlusconi believed we can win CL.
We had only Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf and Kaka who were doing well ! The rest of the team was under average. With no good striker (like Henry,Sheva,Rooney,...) the CL is almost impossible to win and guess who won it ?

2007 was nothing more then a fluke, let's face it. A fluke that imo, sent us back 5 years, because of that CL win the management continued to dwell and let the team get into the state it's in now.

[Fishdoll]

Well, han, I don't recall you - Gila arguments aside, I had forgotten those - ever having a kind word to say about Italian players. I DO recall the mountains of criticism against Pippo, Ambro, Carlo as coach, etc. At the same time, I see the 'Leo shouldn't be blamed' arugment for him having to face the same sorts of problems Ancelotti did when 'it was a fluke' we did anything worthwhile. And I recall quite vividly your rather harsh criticism of my person when she dared to criticize Kaka's performances in 08-09.

In other words, I just don't see evidence in your posts that you have any genuine fondness for any of Milan's Italians -- quite the contrary in a couple of cases, especially Pippo -- while you seem to bristle if anyone dares criticize certain of its Brazilians.

[X-Offender]

Most of them being when he had arguably the best squad in Europe...

That's insignificant.

han, by the spring of last year, I wanted Ancelotti out as much as you did, but simply because his time at Milan was over, not because I was doubting his coaching skills. Ancelotti remains, to me, one of the best managers of the last 10 years, if not the greatest.

[d'Arc.LP]

2007 was nothing more then a fluke, let's face it. A fluke that imo, sent us back 5 years, because of that CL win the management continued to dwell and let the team get into the state it's in now.

I dont get it. After Calciopoli, if we wouldn't win that CL now we wouldn't have players like Pato,Silva,Pirlo and Ronaldinho. Wining 2007 Cl was a very good thing that made Berlusconi not to sell players. Berlusconi is never going to sell Milan and the word INVEST is not his dictionary any more. He will keep sell and sell players, play how he wants with coaches and in the end he'll say I'm the biggest fan of Milan. He is the menagment and the others doesnt matter to him.
But let's not change the topic (Well, its already changed, we are talking about Ancelotti and CL in Pirlos thread).

This post has been edited by d'Arc.LP: May 19 2010, 10:13 PM

[han2503]

Well, han, I don't recall you - Gila arguments aside, I had forgotten those - ever having a kind word to say about Italian players. I DO recall the mountains of criticism against Pippo, Ambro, Carlo as coach, etc. At the same time, I see the 'Leo shouldn't be blamed' arugment for him having to face the same sorts of problems Ancelotti did when 'it was a fluke' we did anything worthwhile. And I recall quite vividly your rather harsh criticism of my person when she dared to criticize Kaka's performances in 08-09.

In other words, I just don't see evidence in your posts that you have any genuine fondness for any of Milan's Italians -- quite the contrary in a couple of cases, especially Pippo -- while you seem to bristle if anyone dares criticize certain of its Brazilians.

Really no kind words? Antonini has been a secret boy crush of mine this season (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) and I haven't even tried to hide it. Not to mention my undying love for Nesta (But I know he's your person's guy, so I won't go anywhere near him). Abate, even though he's made his fare share of mistakes in defense I've always stood behind. My Rino vs Ambro endless debates with kurt should clue you in about how much I love Rino. Pirlo is a given, there haven't been a lot of good to say about him these past couple of years since he's been mostly poor but I'm still a big fan, I was a fan of his while at Brescia and I still am. Don't even mention him going to Chelsea next season, I'll pounce!!

Pippo I just can't stand to see make a fool out of himself anymore! That's why I wrote in the old Pippo. For me he should have gone out on a high after CL win, gone out a legend. Yet he's stayed and it's really starting to diminish what he's achieved.

I admit, I'm no big fan of Ambro, I just don't like the type of player he is and I have no qualms about admitting it. It doesn't matter if he's Italian/Spanish/English or Brazilian, I'm just not a fan, simple as.

Regarding Carlo. If you were a member in a 06 you would see how I felt about Carlo. I was the one fighting it out with Porty and the rest in Carlo's favour, but I just grew to really see him for what he really was when he didn't have a great team at his disposal anymore. That's the reason I don't rate him as highly as I once did.

Regarding Kaka, yes I used to defend him, just like I've defended Nesta, Thiago, Bori, Luca and Ronnie this season, because even though they weren't all consistant 100% of the time they were still all the most important players on the team for us and even when not playing at their best they still gave more then most to the team. Kaka's 08/09 season was ravaged by injuries, but just like Paolo that season, he was still the one stepping up and getting us through sh!tty times when most of the team was hanging their heads in defeat.

For me, the only foreigner that could do no wrong was not a Brazilian but Ukranian and I still love Sheva no matter what. Kaka I'm meh about now, but Sheva I'd sill take back in a heart beat. That should answer your question regarding the Brazilian debate.

And really at the end of the day I don't care about their nationality, as long as they play well for the team I support I don't care where they come from. And you shouldn't either.

[han2503]

That's insignificant.

han, by the spring of last year, I wanted Ancelotti out as much as you did, but simply because his time at Milan was over, not because I was doubting his coaching skills. Ancelotti remains, to me, one of the best managers of the last 10 years, if not the greatest.

Maybe it was because his time was up and he didn't have anything left to offer for Milan. And what you saw as his time being up I saw as tactical weakness. I just never understood how Carlo could go from having Milan play some of the best football in Europe to the team that came out in 07, no ideas, no spark no nothing.

It's like the entire team only switched on for the latter part of that CL campaign and nothing else for the remaining few years.

I always atributed this to the team losing it's strength, tus Carlo being unable to cope tactically with the loss of quality in the squad

I dont get it. After Calciopoli, if we wouldn't win that CL now we wouldn't have players like Pato,Silva,Pirlo and Ronaldinho. Wining 2007 Cl was a very good thing that made Berlusconi not to sell players. Berlusconi is never going to sell Milan and the word INVEST is not his dictionary any more. He will keep sell and sell players, play how he wants with coaches and in the end he'll say I'm the biggest fan of Milan. He is the menagment and the others doesnt matter to him.
But let's not change the topic (Well, its already changed, we are talking about Ancelotti and CL in Pirlos thread).

lol

Anyway, yes we did get Pato, (Thiago and Dinho don't have anything to do with the CL win imo, but that's another thing all on it's own) Imo the CL put us back because it continued to give Galliani and Silvio excuses about still being a competitive team, 'we just won the CL, we don't need to invest in the squad, we're fine as we are, bla bla'.

And that thinking has lead us to now. The entire squad is almost all over 30 aside from a handful of players, we're at a point were the entire team will need to be overhauled in 2 years max, and that is the result of the management not starting to rebuild earlier.

The CL didn't make Berlu not sell players, it baught him more time to not spend money without fans getting on his back.

And Pato came because we gave him the best options and were the most interested. Real and Chelsea were still oing hot and cold about him and we pounced and gave him a nice offer, that's what made Pato choose Milan imo, not the CL win



Anywhooooo, I'm off to bed, it's almost midnight here and I have to wake up at 7 in the morning. Nighty night Fishy!

[d'Arc.LP]

lol

Anyway, yes we did get Pato, (Thiago and Dinho don't have anything to do with the CL win imo, but that's another thing all on it's own) Imo the CL put us back because it continued to give Galliani and Silvio excuses about still being a competitive team, 'we just won the CL, we don't need to invest in the squad, we're fine as we are, bla bla'.

And that thinking has lead us to now. The entire squad is almost all over 30 aside from a handful of players, we're at a point were the entire team will need to be overhauled in 2 years max, and that is the result of the management not starting to rebuild earlier.

The CL didn't make Berlu not sell players, it baught him more time to not spend money without fans getting on his back.

And Pato came because we gave him the best options and were the most interested. Real and Chelsea were still oing hot and cold about him and we pounced and gave him a nice offer, that's what made Pato choose Milan imo, not the CL win

Everything has to do with CL. It gave us +100 million. I can't even imagine the team and the fans if we wouldn't won that year.
And , we all know how Berlusconi makes and spend money.
I'm just courios in one thing. How a person getting older incrases his interest for young girls and looses for his giant club ? Shouldn't it be the counter ? (And sorry for my bad english) :]

This post has been edited by d'Arc.LP: May 19 2010, 10:52 PM

[Fishdoll]

han, I still think we're seeing things a little differently but that's fair enough. I'd have no reason to push the penguins in (and vice versa) if we always agreed on things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks for explaining your views in such detail (even if I disagree with you on several points).

Can we be co-fanboys of Antonini?

[il_diavolo_mtl]

Can we be co-fanboys of Antonini?

i want in!!!!!

[X-Offender]

i want in!!!!!

I want in too!!!

[han2503]

han, I still think we're seeing things a little differently but that's fair enough. I'd have no reason to push the penguins in (and vice versa) if we always agreed on things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks for explaining your views in such detail (even if I disagree with you on several points).

Can we be co-fanboys of Antonini?

No, you already stole Nesta from all of us!!!!!

And I'm curious about the points you disagree upon... Is it the Carlo thing, because like I said to x-off maybe I just see things in a black and white, while you see it differently.

Let's just put it this way, I love the Carlo of the first 4 seasons, but can't stand the Carlo of the last 3 seasons. Does that make any sense? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Anywayssss, back to Pirlo. I think he'll have one last monster WC, I have faith in him

And Jack if you mention the going to Chelsea thing one more time I'll come get you myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/swear1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[Fishdoll]

Not true! Not true at all, han!

My person is sharing Nesta with dst. *I* have no dibs on anyone.

I just think you see things in starker terms in general than I do. You seem hypercritical at times when I don't think it's warranted.

[Jack Sparrow]

No, you already stole Nesta from all of us!!!!!

And I'm curious about the points you disagree upon... Is it the Carlo thing, because like I said to x-off maybe I just see things in a black and white, while you see it differently.

Let's just put it this way, I love the Carlo of the first 4 seasons, but can't stand the Carlo of the last 3 seasons. Does that make any sense? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Anywayssss, back to Pirlo. I think he'll have one last monster WC, I have faith in him

And Jack if you mention the going to Chelsea thing one more time I'll come get you myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/swear1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

He's way too cool for Milan anyway. I don't see why you're being such a square about it. C'mon Andy...let's go to London. Partaaayyyyy!

[Jeff]

Pirlo.. he's obviously degraded.. even his free kicks are not as those in the past.. Is he called for the national team?