[kurtsimonw]

One thing is sure Carlo won't be sacked, if he goes it will be his decision. With that said, I really hope he goes, some people seem to think that there was nothing more we could have done this year but I hugely disagree. His ability to change the game are too predictable, weather when it comes to make substitutions or to change the formation, he's too rigid in my opinion and it cost us the CL spot!

I think he's a decent coach, but football is a confusing thing, as I can also say he's a very bad coach and give reasons why. He won the European Cup with a very average squad, which is obvioualy an acheivment. But then, he only won 1 league title, and that was with a very, very talented squad, with the likes of Sheva, Rui Costa, Stam, etc. and without these star players, he couldn't even finish in the top 4, surely a good coach could finish 4th with a team like Milan and still quality players! And his tactics are another thing under-question, I dunno if he'd survive long at Chelsea. I don't find his football particulary entertaining, and he's too defensive, he'd last 5 minutes in east London like that!

It's a universal conspiracy in favor or Mourinho.  Now he's going to keep winning titles (if Mancini did it... there's no doubt Mourinho will do it as well) and of course people are not going to say "This is Mancini's team" like the say Chelsea's Mourinho's team whenever Grant is mentioned...

The difference is, Grant couldn't continue to win titles, so it proved it was Jose's doing. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[morgoth]

I think he's a decent coach, but football is a confusing thing, as I can also say he's a very bad coach and give reasons why. He won the European Cup with a very average squad, which is obvioualy an acheivment. But then, he only won 1 league title, and that was with a very, very talented squad, with the likes of Sheva, Rui Costa, Stam, etc. and without these star players, he couldn't even finish in the top 4, surely a good coach could finish 4th with a team like Milan and still quality players! And his tactics are another thing under-question, I dunno if he'd survive long at Chelsea. I don't find his football particulary entertaining, and he's too defensive, he'd last 5 minutes in east London like that!

I didn't say he's a bad coach, actually I think he's good, but nothing more. I also think that he has a very small part in the 2007 CL triumph, it was down to a lot of things but Carlo in my opinion played a small part. And he did win one league and finished twice second to a zebra side that was helped a lot by the refs and played 2 CL finals, so it's not like he didn't achieve anything at all, but as you said he had a great squad ...

He's tactics is what annoys me actually, I don't think he takes risks even when there's nothing to lose he still plays the same 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2. Oh and I agree with you about his football, he doesn't plays beautiful football at all! We didn't play beautiful football these past two years, and I think the beautiful football we played in the past was because we had a lot of technical players in the starting 11 (Cafu, Sergio, Rui Costa, Sheva).

[kurtsimonw]

Yeah, those are pretty much my thoughts on him.

It would be interesting if he did get the Chelsea job to see how he fared. But I think Mancini will be the chosen guy.

[Tennie]

Who cares who gets the Chelsea job?(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This is the Serie A thread.

[kurtsimonw]

Because it involves Mancini and Ancelotti, to Italian coaches most recently employed in Serie A.. move these posts to the EPL thread if you're that desperate.

[Tennie]

Desperate? Hardly. Annoyed as hell at the constant jabbering about a league I detest? Yep.

[morgoth]

We're not talking about the EPL, we're talking about Milan's coach and a rumor linking him with Chelsea!

[m1ke]

move these posts to the EPL thread if you're that desperate.

Give her a break Kurt - she does quite a bit for us lot!

[Jack Sparrow]

kurt be nice. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Well you can't play technical good football without the players. Give arsene Bolton Wanderers and you'll see.

As for the tactics, the problem is all the players Carlo has got barring a few, are too one-dimensional. Who does he have?

Kaka, Pirlo, Seedorf who I think are the only really good players who are versatile. And now Pato. Besides that, his only fit options were the likes of Gattuso, Brocchi, Ambro, Favalli etc.

@morgoth: Yes...the last two years have been very anti-Carletto type football...except for the glorious night against Manchester. But the years before....ooh-la-la.....but then he had those versatile players see. In Stam, Kaladze, Rui, Sheva.

We'd start of a 4-1-2-1-2, but it was never that. One moment it was a 4-3-1-2, then a 4-3-2-1, and my all time favourite, the legendary(in my book) Carletto special-> the feared Milan 3-4-1-2 (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

His flexibililty in tactics unlike the coaches say Mourinho or Benitez, was a not a rigid shift from one style to the other through the introduction of subs. He's the Italian school of Capello, Sacchi etc. The change happens in game play.

So you would see these four formations all with the same set of players, but all diff tactics...

Stam/Cafu---Nesta---Maldini----Sergio/Kaladze
--------------------Pirlo----------------------------
-----------Rino------------Seedorf-----------------
------------------Rui/Kaka--------------------------
------------Sheva---------Pippo/JDT---------------

which would become....the 4-3-1-2 or even this.....

----------Stam----------Nesta-------Maldini--------
(Cafu)-------Rino------Pirlo---------Seedorf----(Sergio) ...one of them...
----------------------Kaka/Rui-----------------------
--------------Sheva-------------Pippo/JDT-----------


In a way this worked against us in the long run, coz the fluidity brought so much success. And our subs were great then. JDT for Pippo. Kaka for Rui. Stam who could play the role Bonera plays in the team a 100 times better. I mean Kaladze was a fringe player...so you know.

And what do you mean he had great players?? JDT was not an in-demand player. Stam or Kaladze were not superstars. We've never had a superstar bench...except for that brief period when Kaka benched Rui.


Carletto is a very different coach from Mourinho and Benitez. And imo, he was one of the few coaches among the top clubs (except maybe Benitez the season before), who had the right to make the 'Mourinho-omelette' speech. When he had the eggs, he always made the greatest omelettes!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[morgoth]

Who's talking about super stars? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I said he had a lot of technical players which favored the beautiful football ... The 3-5-2 formation you're talking about was used once against Baça in the group stage (1-0) that's all and it wasn't offensive at all!

Carlo never wanted to play with 2 strikers and still doesn't want to, he did it in his first years because berlu said so (remember the match against the merda) and because it worked perfectly, when Sheva went to Chelsea he couldn't play it anymore (Oliveira didn't fit in) so he switched to his old formation with one striker, and when we are 2 goals down he puts a second striker ...

Edit. Oh I forgot to mention that Stam was one of the best CB's in the world and was a star!

This post has been edited by morgoth: May 29 2008, 08:19 PM

[morgoth]

M.Allegri is Cagliari new coach and Parma (who's in serie B ) will be coached by L.Cagni.

Does anyone know who's Massimo Allegri? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This post has been edited by morgoth: May 29 2008, 11:16 PM

[Rossoneri7]

Who's talking about super stars? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I said he had a lot of technical players which favored the beautiful football ... The 3-5-2 formation you're talking about was used once against Baça in the group stage (1-0) that's all and it wasn't offensive at all!

Carlo never wanted to play with 2 strikers and still doesn't want to, he did it in his first years because berlu said so (remember the match against the merda) and because it worked perfectly, when Sheva went to Chelsea he couldn't play it anymore (Oliveira didn't fit in) so he switched to his old formation with one striker, and when we are 2 goals down he puts a second striker ...

Edit. Oh I forgot to mention that Stam was one of the best CB's in the world and was a star!

What Jack is saying is that Ancelotti is not as ridged as you claim. That with a 4-3-2-1 .. It can change within the game to a 3-5-1-2 or any formation which can be dictated by the qualities of Kaka', Seedorf, Pirlo .. How has Kaka' been so confident lately as an SS ?!

Problem is, there is no one on the bench to sub in, like for example Sergio, a player to add pace on the left flank. Key players like that were not available. Heck, not even Ronaldo was available.(this season)

So you can't say he is ridged, because I am a HUGE fan of Carlo, for what he has done for Milan and it has been a while since I have seen Milan play in such a way, such alertness and the understanding within this group that he had molded. He knew his player's strengths and played at that. I mean, Seedorf was played out of position for the most part of his career under Carlo. But why ? There is the genius who knew how to get the most out of his qualities in a tactic that makes Milan so decorated under him, I mean if we Milan fans hail Saachi and Capello today .. a few years down the line when some hot shot coach comes here and things dont go to plan, we will all reminisce. And history will tell.

[Rossoneri7]

Leonardo says that it is only normal for Milan to rebuild at a time like this !

He adds that it is strange for Milan not to be in the race for the championship, let alone the CL.

"This is a new scenario for the club, the last time Milan were out of the champions league was in 2000 - 01. And it is only normal to start rebuilding, even if the club is champion for the world. But not challenging for the Scudetto or the Champions League, that is what is strange!"

He continued, "Now the club must get itself organized for the new challenges ahead, seeing as we will play for the UEFA cup next season, it is essential that Milan bring in strong players to mount a challenge for both the Scudetto, and in doing so book a seat in the 09-10 Champions League."

[Ry4n]

Desperate? Hardly. Annoyed as hell at the constant jabbering about a league I detest? Yep.

2nd that !!!!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[morgoth]

What Jack is saying is that Ancelotti is not as ridged as you claim. That with a 4-3-2-1 .. It can change within the game to a 3-5-1-2 or any formation which can be dictated by the qualities of Kaka', Seedorf, Pirlo .. How has Kaka' been so confident lately as an SS ?!

Problem is, there is no one on the bench to sub in, like for example Sergio, a player to add pace on the left flank. Key players like that were not available. Heck, not even Ronaldo was available.(this season)

So you can't say he is ridged, because I am a HUGE fan of Carlo, for what he has done for Milan and it has been a while since I have seen Milan play in such a way, such alertness and the understanding within this group that he had molded. He knew his player's strengths and played at that. I mean, Seedorf was played out of position for the most part of his career under Carlo. But why ? There is the genius who knew how to get the most out of his qualities in a tactic that makes Milan so decorated under him, I mean if we Milan fans hail Saachi and Capello today .. a few years down the line when some hot shot coach comes here and things dont go to plan, we will all reminisce. And history will tell.

Oh I got that, I know he changes the formation within the game, but he doesn't change it to a pure 3-5-2 (with 3 CB's) actually his favourite move is to switch from the clasic tree formation to a 4-4-1-1 or he asks Kaka to play as a SS instead of a trequartista, sometime he also let the WB's play as midfielders, both of them or only one and this is when he plays a sort of 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1.

I got that perfectly but it wasn't what I meant, sometimes I'd like to see Milan play from the start of the match with a 3-5-2, especially against a 5-4-1 formation and a team who came to defend all the match, that's why I say he's rigid because he changes only when he's down and needs a result, plus he clearly prefers to play with one striker and that's been a huge problem for us especially with the WB's we have. Oh and I'm not going to talk about his suspicious substitutions, because I'm sure even a fan like you sees that he does a lot of mistakes when to comes to that matter.

That's basically why I think that Carlo's time at Milan has come to an end. On an other note, it takes great players and a great coach to win titles, Carlo without the players he had two years ago wouldn't have win, and the same goes for Capello and Sacchi but actually I've never seen Capello missing out on a substitution and an obvious choice, he makes aggressive formation to win even if he has to play Del Piero as a winger, and the same goes for Sacchi whose trade mark was the attacking and aggressive football (the pressing defence), but Carlo has never shown those characteristics, let alone some directness and authority, and don't get me wrong I'm grateful for what he achieved with Milan, in fact he's one of our most prolific coaches and I will never forget that, but I think if Milan wants to really change they should include Carlo in the balance.