[Zed.D]

^^

Maybe tradition is not that important, but experience means a lot in the CL games. I think they [mostly 'kids'] won't be able to play their football in San Siro. its atmosphere won't allow them to. that's why I think no matter what the result of the first leg is, we can finish the job in one night. one of those special San Zero nights!

[dst]

Tradition definitely IS important. Remember the Istanbul final, Liverpool was just a mediocre team back then but they had their name and shirts to fight for. If Chelsea had beaten them in the semis and were losing 3-0 at half-time in the final the game would have ended 6+ - 0.

[misha]

experience means a lot in the CL games. I think they [mostly 'kids'] won't be able to play their football in San Siro. its atmosphere won't allow them to. that's why I think no matter what the result of the first leg is, we can finish the job in one night. one of those special San Zero nights!

Yep

Tradition definitely IS important. Remember the Istanbul final, Liverpool was just a mediocre team back then but they had their name and shirts to fight for. If Chelsea had beaten them in the semis and were losing 3-0 at half-time in the final the game would have ended 6+ - 0.

And Yep.

[kurtsimonw]

I don't really know with expereince.

Porto, Arsenal and Monaco have made finals recently. Did their players really have tonnes of experience in the CL? I'm not so sure, look at Villarreal making the semi's. I think experience can be over-rated.

To me it just means you know what to expect and it will just hope you cope better, but I don't think it really adds that much to a team, in my opinion.

[dst]

I don't really know with expereince.

Porto, Arsenal and Monaco have made finals recently. Did their players really have tonnes of experience in the CL? I'm not so sure, look at Villarreal making the semi's. I think experience can be over-rated.

Of course having experience does not automatically get you to a final. But it is a big weapon... and everything can happen if you underestimate your opponents! And by everything I mean... Monaco vs Porto...

Is experience the ticket to a final? No, but it's some money that can help you get the ticket...

[aLbErTo]

we have to get to the finals...and give ronaldo 1minute to play, just win it for him !! and maldini of course (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Zed.D]

we have to get to the finals...and give ronaldo 1minute to play, just win it for him !! and maldini of course (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

He will have to play that one minute on a wheelchair... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

[dst]

Sneijder will be out for a month. He will miss both legs against Roma. But Real now have Robben back so they should not be to worried.

[Jack Sparrow]

Robinho also out for the first leg?

[misha]

Champions League: The English Challenge

(IMG:http://www.goal.com/images/25178.jpg)

The eagerly-awaited resumption of the Champions League this week sees the English Premier League still with its full complement of four representatives in the last 16. But the two English clubs with arguably the toughest assignments go into their ties with their pride battered and confidence no doubt at a low ebb. Graham Lister assesses the English challenge...

Having contested each of the last three Champions League finals, English clubs are still on course to be represented in this season's showpiece as they occupy a full quarter of the remaining 16 places in the competition. But football is never as simple as a maths equation: it's a lot less predictable than that. And two of the Premier League's finest have mammoth obstacles to overcome if they are to reach even the quarter-finals.

Liverpool (2005 and 2007) and Arsenal (2006) made it to the three most recent finals but they now face the collective might of Milan over two legs, and both of the English sides will need to effect immediate and dramatic improvements from their weekend performances in the FA Cup if they are to make any impact on the Serie A giants Internazionale and AC Milan, respectively.

For Manchester United (Arsenal's nemesis on Saturday) and Chelsea, the prospects are more promising. Both are buoyed by convincing FA Cup wins and, as winners of their respective Group Stage pools, have looked generally more solid in Europe this season than Liverpool and the Gunners. United take on Lyon this week, while Chelsea tackle Greek champions Olympiakos.

In terms of the potential difficulty of the opposition, and considering the ties as a whole (ie, both legs), then Liverpool's task against runaway Italian League leaders Inter looks the toughest, followed by Arsenal's against current European champions Milan, United's against Lyon and Chelsea's date with Olympiakos. However, at this level it is true to say there is no such thing as an easy contest.


The Build-Up: Mixed Fortunes In The FA Cup

As preparation for this week's Champions League battles, Saturday's FA Cup ties helped clarify one or two issues:

* Chelsea remain firmly in contention for honours on four fronts;
* Manchester United's dream of emulating their 1999 treble is still very much alive;
* Arsenal must now focus wholly on their top two priorities of Premier League and Champions League;
* The Champions League is now Liverpool's only hope of glory this season.

Liverpool's season of self-inflicted woe reached a new low at Anfield on Saturday when Championship (second-tier) side Barnsley caused the upset of the English domestic season by dumping Liverpool out of the FA Cup 2-1.  There was no sign of impending doom for Rafa Benitez and his team when Dirk Kuyt gave them a half-time lead in front of the Kop. But goals after the break from Stephen Foster and Brian Howard - the latter burying the winner in stoppage time - turned the tie on its head and gave the struggling Yorkshire Tykes a famous win at Liverpool's red-faced expense.

Then Manchester United made an emphatic statement on the domestic front by thrashing Premier League leaders Arsenal 4-0 at Old Trafford.  United, without the rested Cristiano Ronaldo, Ryan Giggs, Owen Hargreaves and Carlos Tevez, were sharper, faster, hungrier, and altogether more incisive than their visitors from London. Indeed, the Gunners may lead United by five points but there was no question who were the better team on Saturday. As preparation for a meeting with Milan, the day could hardly have gone worse for Arsenal.

United raced into a two-goal lead within the first 20 minutes thanks to the electrifying Wayne Rooney and Darren Fletcher. They struck again seven minutes before the break through Nani, and Arsenal's attempts at damage limitation, never mind an unlikely recovery, self-destructed shortly after half-time when Emmanuel Eboué was dismissed for an awful challenge on Patrice Evra. Nani then turned provider 16 minutes from the end when he crossed for Fletcher to head home his second. Neither Milan nor many other Serie A sides will have recognised the efforts of Arsenal's rearguard as defending on one of the bleakest days of Arsene Wenger's management.

In contrast, at Stamford Bridge, Frank Lampard underlined his return to full fitness by scoring twice from midfield as FA Cup holders Chelsea reached the quarter-finals at the expense of League One (third-tier) Huddersfield Town. Although Lampard's early strike was cancelled out in first-half stoppage-time by Michael Collins, he and Salomon Kalou score within ten minutes of each other midway through the second-half to wrap the tie up neatly for Avram Grant's side.


Liverpool Heading Inter Crisis?
Tuesday, 19 February - Liverpool-Internazionale

Liverpool have been flirting with the self-destruct button for weeks, and on Saturday they appeared to press it at home to Barnsley. A season that began so promisingly, amid signs that a serious assault on the elusive Premier League title was finally being mounted, has been allowed to slip through the club's fingers. The Champions League is the only avenue still open to the Reds, and manager Rafa Benitez, whose Anfield future has looked precarious since the autumn, is now surely hanging by a thread.

The consensus is that only by dismissing Inter Milan from the Champions League can Rafa save himself from the Americans' axe.  It has also been mooted that, unlike the mass of Liverpool's support, Benitez prizes European achievement above Premier League glory. If so, this is when he really must identify and pick his strongest side, and make sure they deliver.

But he is running out of time, and allies.  Tommy Smith, captain of Liverpool under Bill Shankly in the 1970s, said of Benitez: "He keeps going on about winning four cups and all that. but at the end of the day it's not even entertaining at Anfield at the moment. The crowd keep it going but they booed everybody at the end of the [Barnsley] game, and quite rightly.

"The first person you put on the team-sheet is Gerrard. How on earth could he sit on the bench for 75 minutes and watch that? Then he [Benitez] talks about chances. Well, they've gone. You can't score after the game finishes."


Do-Or-Die

The last-16 European tie with Inter is now do-or-die or Rafa's Reds. But the Spaniard remains in typically defiant mood. He hit back at his critics after the Barnsley debacle, insisting that his Liverpool record of four trophies and seven finals, including two in the Champions League, deserves respect.

However, his pre-match comment about the Inter tie owed more to hope than conviction. "It could be important to us to progress in Europe because that would give us more confidence, particularly if we beat a team like Inter," he said, his use of the word 'could' raising a few eyebrows given that anything less than victory is not an option. "It's not impossible," he continued. "We have done it before and we could do it again - why not?"

In Inter he faces a side at the top of their game. The Italian Champions are top of Serie A again this season, and haven't lost yet in the domestic league. They are  favourites to make Liverpool's troubled season worse. And they prepared for the Liverpool game in style by strolling to a 2-0 victory over lowly Livorno. Honduran David Suazo scored two goals in as many minutes, with assists from Christian Chivu and Maxwell, respectively, to give Roberto Mancin's side all three points. Inter are now 11 points clear of second-placed Roma, and it is becoming almost inconceivable that they will not be crowned Italian champions again. And this time, no objective observer can argue that they won't have fully deserved it. Notwithstanding the usual sniping about a few allegedly favourable refereeing decisions, Inter are proving conclusively they are currently the best in Italy.

And that is what Liverpool must overcome. Their veteran defender, Jamie Carragher, a winner in Istanbul in 2005, knows what it takes to lift the European Cup, and accepts that getting to another final this season is a massive challenge for the Reds. Admitting that Liverpool are not good enough to win the Premier League, Carragher claimed that the games against Inter are the sort that tend to bring out the best in players.

"I have been watching Inter when I can since we knew we would be playing them," he said, "and they are an excellent team. And we will have to play a lot better than we have been, and be at our very best, to get through."

He added: "This is what I love, playing against the best players about and that is what we have got to look forward to against Inter. They look like running away with their title and are keen to win this trophy after watching AC Milan do that against us last season. It will be a big test for us, and we will have to up our game a level or two to get through." Or three or four if the Barnsley performance is a yardstick. Making a good start in the tie at Anfield will be crucial.


Arsenal's Rossoneri Challenge
Wednesday, 20 February - Arsenal-AC Milan

If Liverpool's task against Inter is widely perceived to be the toughest facing English clubs, Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger begs to differ. "Of all the English clubs still in the tournament, we have the toughest draw," he declared.

Europe's premier club competition has consistently proved to be beyond Wenger and his Arsenal side, and that may again be the case with the holders now blocking their path to the quarter-finals.

Although the Rossoneri are struggling somewhat in Serie A this season - they are already out of the running for the Scudetto, lying in fifth place, some 21 points behind leaders and city rivals Inter - Wenger knows that a club with Milan's pedigree can never be under-estimated.  They have been champions of Europe seven times, something only Real Madrid can better.

They were held to an anti-climactic goalless draw by Parma on Saturday in what was Paolo Maldini's 1,000th game for the club. That followed a 1-1 draw three days earlier against Livorno in a match that witnessed the great Brazilian Ronaldo suffer a career-threatening tendon injury. To add to Milan's problems, goalkeeper Dida, who was on the bench, was carried off with a back injury sustained during a half-time work-out.

Wenger, though, remains on his guard.  "Milan are not doing very well in Serie A but the team can raise their performance on the day because there's a structure inside the club that allows them to do that," he said. "They have players who are world class and have a lot of experience."

One of those world-class players is another Brazilian, Kaka, and he has been identified by Wenger as the main danger-man.  The Fifa World Player of the Year scored 10 goals from midfield in last season's Champions League and his vision was integral to Milan's seventh triumph in the competition. Wenger has promised to set his team up a bit more defensively than usual to try and contain the threat posed by Kaka at the Emirates on Wednesday.

While trying to plot the tactics that will enable the Gunners to get the better of  Milan - something Celtic, Manchester United and Liverpool all failed to do last season - Wenger has to lift his own troops after Saturday's FA Cup calamity against United. But he is convinced there will be no lasting effects from their Old Trafford  humiliation, and fully expects his side to recover their poise and winning spirit in time for Milan's visit. He has described the 4-0 drubbing by United as strictly a "one-off," a game that will have no bearing on either the Premier League title race or the Gunners' Champions League campaign.

He was short of players at Old Trafford due to injuries, but is not worried about picking the players up for the Milan game. "My only worry is that they will have recovered physically for it. It is a massive match and we have to bounce back quickly from our disappointment.  We will need to be at our best."

That is certainly true, with Wenger admitting that his players were simply not up to the level required against United, a display from which it was difficult to find any positives.  But Milan ate another proposition, and he explained:

"This game will define whether or not we can win the European Cup, but you never what will happen. It's very difficult to predict. Two years ago we played Real Madrid and went through. Last season we played PSV Eindhoven but were knocked out. We are underdogs against Milan, by a little bit. I'd say 45/55 because they have the experience and won it last year. We are an upcoming team, so it's a big challenge against the holders of the trophy."

It is imperative that Arsenal rise to the occasion and give a good account of themselves on Wednesday or their season could suddenly unravel (as it did around this time last year when they went out of three competitions in 11 traumatic days). And they may be facing Milan at just the right time, given the problems of fitness and form being endured by Carlo Ancelotti's side.


Red Devils Ready To Tame Lyon
Wednesday, 20 February - Lyon-Manchester United

Manchester United could hardly have responded to their recent Premier League aberrations more emphatically than by giving their closest rivals Arsenal a footballing lesson.  United had dropped five potentially crucial League points by drawing at Tottenham then losing at home to neighbours Manchester City, but even with a weakened team they ran riot against the Gunners to give themselves the perfect launch-pad for their quest to reclaim the European title they last held in 1999.

Lyon have won the French Ligue 1 title for an astonishing six successive seasons, and appear on course for a seventh triumph, notwithstanding a wobble on Saturday; but United can't await to knock them out of the Champions League. Because of the 50th anniversary of the Munich air disaster, United have a special incentive to try and lift the trophy as a tribute to the 23 people, including eight of their players, who died in that crash.

Their form in the group stages was outstanding as they won their pool at a canter, racking up five straight victories against Sporting Lisbon, Dynamo Kiev and Roma. They then had to settle for a point against Roma in December when qualification as group winners was already guaranteed.

Right-back Wes Brown spoke for many of the United players when he confirmed:  "We have all been looking forward to the Champions League starting again as we enjoy being in all competitions. We have played Lyon in the past and every time it has been difficult there. Perhaps they are not as strong as in previous years but they can punish you just the same. We are happy to be in the competition and want to progress to the next stage."

Lyon lost their first two group games but recovered, picking up 10 points from four matches to qualify. That run included a decisive 3-0 victory against Rangers at Ibrox.

United boss Sir Alex Ferguson is happy that United will be playing the second leg at Old Trafford on March 4th.  He said: "It's maybe the hardest of the five [possible draws] we could have got. Lyon have won their league for the last six seasons in a row - that's an incredible record.  They've lost some players over the last few years but they're always capable of producing new ones.  It's important to come back from France with a good result. Then our fans, with Old Trafford at its loudest, can help us go through."

Interestingly, United have registered three additional players for the competition - striker Daniel Welbeck (17), defender Craig Cathcart (19) and midfielder Rodrigo Possebon (19).  United's trump card could be their impressive strength in depth, but as Ferguson said, getting something out of the away leg could prove crucial.

Lyon's Ligue 1 title hopes took a slight knock on Saturday when they were beaten 1-0 by Le Mans, falling behind at the Stade Léon-Bollée 20 minutes from time when Tulio De Melo scored his eleventh league goal of the season. The result gave second-placed Bordeaux the chance to reduce the gap at the top to one point by beating Monaco on Sunday. Lyon scarcely threatened throughout the match and paid the price - but the likelihood is they had one eye on the looming United contest and will be a different proposition on Wednesday.


Chelsea In No Mood For A Greek Tragedy
Tuesday, 19 February - Olympiakos-Chelsea

It could be argued that of all four English representatives in the Champions League, Chelsea's credentials are the strongest. True, they dropped Premier League points when being held to a draw by Liverpool just over a week ago, but they are proving exceptionally difficult to beat on all fronts - and while they may be a little too far behind in the Premier League to win that competition, they are well-placed to get beyond the semi-final stage in the Champions League for the first time, although Olympiakos will have something to say about that.

The Greek side, under coach Panagiotis Lemonis, have found it hard to focus on their domestic league programme this weekend with the Chelsea tie on the horizon. Olympiakos have not contested a knock-out round tie in the Champions League for nine years, so excitement is running high in Piraeus., although Lemonis has been doing his best to keep a lid on expectations.

When his side beat Werder Bremen on Matchday 2, it was the club's first away win in the Champions League in 32 attempts, it was greeted with great emotion, being a major psychological barrier finall overcome.

Lemonis recently told uefa.com: "Having grown up at Olympiakos makes it easier for me to understand the fans' mentality, to know what the club needs. On the other hand, a good professional is one who loves his work, nothing more, nothing less. And I adore my work."

Olympiakos have won ten domestic titles in the last eleven seasons, but their fans are notoriously hard to please. Lemonis explained: "On the final day of last season, the fans were shouting angrily about our performances. I believe the way we have approached our European matches this season, our level of commitment, has made them happy, not just the results.

"Every season, the players felt compelled to do well [in the Champions League]. They were told that qualifying [from the group stage] was a one-way street, that their whole season depended on it. This year we played down the great expectations. We also changed our attitude and our playing style.

"We created a different squad, based on the collective and not only on two or three quality players. We changed our transfer policy. Instead of acquiring big names and hoping things would work out, we first decided on our tactics and then looked for the players to fit our plans. That was the turning point in Europe. In Greece, everybody expects Olympiakos to win every match by three or four goals, to attack constantly, but we're not ready to do that in Europe. We have to take one step at a time, learn how to react to each situation we're presented with. If people are patient, Olympiacos will do great things in the future because the foundations are excellent."

Of Tuesday's opponents, Lemonis said: "Chelsea are not the most spectacular team in Europe, truth be told, but they are strong in every aspect and very tough to beat. They are very compact, excellent in defence, and lethal in attack. In games like these, you have to keep errors to a minimum. Our chances will depend on how we play defensively, just like in our previous matches in the competition. Chelsea are favourites, of course, but we are determined to put up a fight."

As for Chelsea themselves, they can draw huge encouragement from the fact that they continued to achieve excellent results even when depleted by the ravages of injuries and the demands of the Africa Cup of Nations. Now Frank Lampard and John Terry are back from the treatment room, along with Michael Ballack, and the African quartet of Michael Essien, Salomon Kalou, John Obi Mikel and Didier Drogba are also available again to Avram Grant, so the feeling around Stamford Bridge is that things can only get better. Their FA Cup win over Huddersfield may prove to be the first successful step in a season-defining week, for after Olympiakos on Tuesday, the Blues meet Tottenham Hotspur in the Carling Cup final at Wembley on Sunday.

Grant is particularly pleased to have Lampard and Terry back, saying of Lampard: "Modern football has become more and more organised and it's very important to have a player who can come from behind and score goals," and of Terry: "John is a great leader. Even when he didn't play he was with us for the Carling Cup semi-final at Everton, having a big influence in the dressing room."

Lampard is understandably glad to be back after six weeks out with  thigh injury. He said: "There's a lot happening here and I want to be involved. We are not going to say we are going to win all four trophies but while we are in them, we will be doing our best. We have a happy knack of doing well in the cup competitions."

But Olympiakos will be no pushovers. They lost just once in their group games and that was a 4-2 defeat by Real Madrid when they were at a numerical disadvantage.

Grant acknowledged: "Olympiacos are a very good team. They played Lazio, Werder Bremen and Real Madrid and in all the games they were better than their opponents, apart from one game when they were down to 10 players against Real Madrid."


Predictions

Overall, it is going to be an intriguing and challenging few days for the four English clubs. Nothing will be decided this week because there will still be the second legs to come. But the first-leg performances will go a long way towards determining the final outcomes. Given Liverpool's unaccustomed fragility at home, they may be held by Inter at Anfield, with the Nerazzurri targeting a second-leg victory at the San Siro.

AC Milan will probably have a similar game-plan but could be frustrated in part one if Arsenal can bounce back from their Manchester nightmare to earn a narrow Emirates win and give themselves something to cling to in Milan.

Manchester United will be confident of progressing over two legs, and could do so with a narrow first-leg advantage and a more comprehensive second-leg win at Old Trafford.

Chelsea too will be sure they can win at their Stamford Bridge fortress in the second leg, and will therefore be pleased with an away draw - or delighted with a Piraeus victory - in Tuesday's first-leg.

My prediction: United and Chelsea - in, Liverpool and Arsenal - out.

[kurtsimonw]

United/Chelsea are locks for the next round. Liverpool are certainly out, even Celtic have more chance, and Arsenal wil be very close. In my opinion.

[Zed.D]

Robinho also out for the first leg?

Marcelo apparently.

[aLbErTo]

l'pool will go trough for sure...

[dst]

United/Chelsea are locks for the next round. Liverpool are certainly out, even Celtic have more chance, and Arsenal wil be very close. In my opinion.

Liverpool are certainly not in such a bad position! They are a "European" team and Inter are... not.

[Portman]

Liverpool are certainly not in such a bad position! They are a "European" team and Inter are... not.

(IMG:http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2415/torresgerrard594925hj0.jpg)

I just hope these 2 gentlemen have a stunning performance tomorrow. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)