[han2503]

Who: A.C. Milan vs. U.S. Citta di Palermo



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/milan-palermo_zps07c20535.png)



Where: Stadio San Siro



(IMG:http://www.acmilan.com/uploads/club/sansiro.jpg)



When:
2nd November 2014 @ 8:45pm CET


Head-to-Head Record



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/milan-palermostats_zpsc2aaa720.png)

[Fillipo Simone]

What is the difference exactly from previous games we've played here? Too funny that you would try to pin this on Muntari not being there.

The goals came from a couple of individual silly errors, one an own goal off a set-piece.

Actually I disagree. It's easy to say silly individual errors lead to the goals we conceded. But if you watched the whole game, you can also with ease notice how Milan got cornered on multiple occasions and how many chances Palermo wasted (especially in half 1). Yesterday the problem wasn't about individual mistakes, it was that we couldn't cope with the fast attacking players Palermo deployed and with the fast transformation their midfield was able to pull off.

So the main problem was our tactic and player selection. I agree with R7, we lacked strength and muscles. Would Muntari make the situation any better? I doubt it. But the problem is, with Poli and de Jong you have two very peculiar players: neither is the true destroyer and fighter in the sense Davids or Gattuso were, but then again their build-up work and work up front leaves also much to be desired. I'm inclined to think that playing both players in the same formation creates big issues because they somehow do not blend well together.

I think with those tweaks you speak of, we'll be a very decent side on paper. On the pitch however, it has become very clear that the problem runs far deeper than that imo

I've always said that players aren't really the problem, no we don't have a great team, nor is it capable of placing first or second in this league. But we should be winning against the likes of Empoli, Palermo, Cesena, etc. And we're simply not, we didn't do it under Allegri, Seedorf and now with Pippo, all of which had the personnel to do so, no matter how many people here say that we had a bad team, it's still not worse than the teams I've just mentioned and we're still struggling against them

Like I said during the game, there is something fundamentally wrong with the way we approach and play our football, no matter what new players are bought in or which ones leave. This has been the case since Allegri came in and the rookie coaches we brought in after him have mostly continued to build on that negativity.

Pippo so far has shown no signs of rejuvenating the way we play football, what was wrong under Allegri is still wrong now, and I'm afraid that even if he does play the same team we all hope to see, we'd still struggle, because a line-up is not the be all, end all in a football game, you need to have a tactical plan behind it, and so far, I don't see any evidence of that

I must say, I apply a completely different logic. If 3 coaches so far failed, I'm very inclined to say the main problem is not the coach but the team/players. The only true difference - staff wise - would be gained by someone like Simeone or like Guidolin. They know how to build a collective, a fighting unit that absorbs all negative aspects. But this would mean another set-back in terms of mentality while it would benefit us only short-term wise.

Pippo failed to rejuvenate you say? How so? What do you think Pippo should have done and needs to do to "rejuvanate" and change the mentality?

[han2503]

Actually I disagree. It's easy to say silly individual errors lead to the goals we conceded. But if you watched the whole game, you can also with ease notice how Milan got cornered on multiple occasions and how many chances Palermo wasted (especially in half 1). Yesterday the problem wasn't about individual mistakes, it was that we couldn't cope with the fast attacking players Palermo deployed and with the fast transformation their midfield was able to pull off.

So the main problem was our tactic and player selection. I agree with R7, we lacked strength and muscles. Would Muntari make the situation any better? I doubt it. But the problem is, with Poli and de Jong you have two very peculiar players: neither is the true destroyer and fighter in the sense Davids or Gattuso were, but then again their build-up work and work up front leaves also much to be desired. I'm inclined to think that playing both players in the same formation creates big issues because they somehow do not blend well together.


I must say, I apply a completely different logic. If 3 coaches so far failed, I'm very inclined to say the main problem is not the coach but the team/players. The only true difference - staff wise - would be gained by someone like Simeone or like Guidolin. They know how to build a collective, a fighting unit that absorbs all negative aspects. But this would mean another set-back in terms of mentality while it would benefit us only short-term wise.

Pippo failed to rejuvenate you say? How so? What do you think Pippo should have done and needs to do to "rejuvanate" and change the mentality?

Like I said with regards to your first point, what is the difference here to every other game we've played so far this season?

Our midfield is none existant on defensive plays, our CBs/FBs easily get caught in one-on-one situations with zero cover, Zapata's mistake on the second goal was also a situation where he was completely left on his own. He made individual errors but it was also the failure of the midfield to provide cover, look at practically all the other goals we conceded this season and you'll see very similar situations, either that or we succumb to a set-piece.

I love how someone like R7 (now I'm expecting Jack to pop in with the same shtick mind you) come in and blame it on the midfield in THIS particular game. Just hilarious!! We've been conceding identical goals all season and they never mention the midfield, even though it has their precious Muntari mountain in it.

The problem in midfield is both about the individuals and the collective. With regards to the individuals the problem is that NONE of them blend together, not just Poli and De Jong. Do Jong for me IS a destroyer, but he's given the creative job as well in this team, which imo, cannot happen. Poli for me is a big question mark at this point, last season he showed attacking talent, this season he's simply regressed to brainless runner imo. When Muntari is there along with them he just adds to the problem, Saponara was just there yesterday, did nothing particularly wrong, but nothing all that right either, at least there wasn't Muntari fouling people left and right and gifting the ball to Palermo players thanks to his clever passing.

For me the issue in midfield is that we have a De Jong, a pure anchor, and next to him you simply cannot play muscle/brainless/runners. It just renders the midfield impotent and we're still defensively vulnerable as we've seen throughout the season no matter who's playing next to him (Muntari, Poli, Essien)

Playing Sapo there was a mistake, I said before the game that he's too lightweight and isn't a particularly hard worker. Van Ginkel who is a natural CM would have fit in better.

The 3 coaches logic for me is so flawed I wouldn't even know where to begin. The 3 coaches you speak of are 2 rookies and one who has his head permanently stuck up his @ss. Allegri was the start of the problem, for me he does not count as one of the coaches, so far we've had 2 coaches who we brought in to try and "fix" the problems we have, both of them rookies with absolutely no experience coaching a senior side.

Had we still been in this same rut with a proper coach who has proper experience then I would start to believe that it's also the players, but right now, the fact that we have a decent side that is being totally misused and is losing points against just promoted side for me points to a problem in coaching or lack-there-of.

Pippo said at the start that tactics don't matter right now, it's about the attitude. Well guess what, the attitude atm stinks and the lack of tactical system is showing

[Fillipo Simone]

Like I said with regards to your first point, what is the difference here to every other game we've played so far this season?

Our midfield is none existant on defensive plays, our CBs/FBs easily get caught in one-on-one situations with zero cover, Zapata's mistake on the second goal was also a situation where he was completely left on his own. He made individual errors but it was also the failure of the midfield to provide cover, look at practically all the other goals we conceded these season and you'll see very similar situations, either that or we succumb to a set-piece.

I love how someone like R7 (now I'm expecting Jack to pop in with the same shtick mind you) come in and blame it on the midfield in THIS particular game. Just hilarious!! We've been conceding identical goals all season and they never mention the midfield, even though it has their precious Muntari mountain in it.

The problem in midfield is both about the individuals and the collective. With regards to the individuals the problem is that NONE of them blend together, not just Poli and De Jong. Do Jong for me IS a destroyer, but he's given the creative job as well in this team, which imo, cannot happen. Poli for me is a big question mark at this point, last season he showed attacking talent, this season he's simply regressed to brainless runner imo. When Muntari is there along with them he just adds to the problem, Saponara was just there yesterday, did nothing particularly wrong, but nothing all that right either, at least there wasn't Muntari fouling people left and right and gifting the ball to Palermo players thanks to his clever passing.

For me the issue in midfield is that we have a De Jong, a pure anchor, and next to him you simply cannot play muscle/brainless/runners. It just renders the midfield impotent and we're still defensively vulnerable as we've seen throughout the season no matter who's playing next to him (Muntari, Poli, Essien)

Playing Sapo there was a mistake, I said before the game that he's too lightweight and isn't a particularly hard worker. Van Ginkel who is a natural CM would have fit in better.

The main difference is that we score more easily. We've devolved a interesting system of utilizing Honda and Menez as our main forces and only lack of one more addition, say Torres or SES who are both off form. Just remember how you complained when we sold Balotelli. You did so because you knew he's the only match-winner we have/had and you also expected us to play like under Allegri, with one focal point in attack; Ibra, SES, Balo. I think Inzaghi surpassed this kind of thinking and made our attack more efficient and complex.

So we agree that it wasn't just individual mistake, but collective as well. Yes, the midfield is a puzzle and a big problem. I think Saponara did a solid job, but I'd rather try him on the wing and see how he'd do just that. But that doesn't solve anything. Once again, just like in the Merkel years, we've been reduced to a kid, van Ginkel, as our only/last hope in midfield. That goes beyond the coaches problems.

Oh, and one last thing - just to irk you. In fact, yesterday, some of those "stupid" Muntari fouls in midfield would have helped us immensely. You see, de Jong simply couldn't handle the Palermo midfield by himself, something players like Rino or Davids usually could. On several occasions we needed a foul to break their fast attack, but NDJ, Sapo and especially Poli weren't up to it. At this point, I fear Poli is turning into the next Nocerino.

The 3 coaches logic for me is so flawed I wouldn't even know where to begin. The 3 coaches you speak of are 2 rookies and one who has his head permanently stuck up his @ss. Allegri was the start of the problem, for me he does not count as one of the coaches, so far we've had 2 coaches who we brought in to try and "fix" the problems we have, both of them rookies with absolutely no experience coaching a senior side.

Had we still been in this same rut with a proper coach who has proper experience then I would start to believe that it's also the players, but right now, the fact that we have a decent side that is being totally misused and is losing points against just promoted side for me points to a problem in coaching or lack-there-of.

Pippo said at the start that tactics don't matter right now, it's about the attitude. Well guess what, the attitude atm stinks and the lack of tactical system is showing

Yet, you haven't really answered to me; how would you change mentality and rejuvenate the team? What should Pippo do or should have done already?

I think the logic we apply must be flawed because we don't know enough. You could be right as well as me.

Thing is, Pippo has certain players who don't perform good yet they should/are expected to do so: SES, MDS, Poli, Torres to name a few. Now, where does that leave us?

[han2503]

The main difference is that we score more easily. We've devolved a interesting system of utilizing Honda and Menez as our main forces and only lack of one more addition, say Torres or SES who are both off form. Just remember how you complained when we sold Balotelli. You did so because you knew he's the only match-winner we have/had and you also expected us to play like under Allegri, with one focal point in attack; Ibra, SES, Balo. I think Inzaghi surpassed this kind of thinking and made our attack more efficient and complex.

So we agree that it wasn't just individual mistake, but collective as well. Yes, the midfield is a puzzle and a big problem. I think Saponara did a solid job, but I'd rather try him on the wing and see how he'd do just that. But that doesn't solve anything. Once again, just like in the Merkel years, we've been reduced to a kid, van Ginkel, as our only/last hope in midfield. That goes beyond the coaches problems.

Oh, and one last thing - just to irk you. In fact, yesterday, some of those "stupid" Muntari fouls in midfield would have helped us immensely. You see, de Jong simply couldn't handle the Palermo midfield by himself, something players like Rino or Davids usually could. On several occasions we needed a foul to break their fast attack, but NDJ, Sapo and especially Poli weren't up to it. At this point, I fear Poli is turning into the next Nocerino.




Yet, you haven't really answered to me; how would you change mentality and rejuvenate the team? What should Pippo do or should have done already?

I think the logic we apply must be flawed because we don't know enough. You could be right as well as me.

Thing is, Pippo has certain players who don't perform good yet they should/are expected to do so: SES, MDS, Poli, Torres to name a few. Now, where does that leave us?

We score more easily?

Nope, the goals have dried up as easily as our opponents have figured us out. The signs were there and were coming, last week we only scored because of a lucky cross managing to sneak in, yesterday we didn't even come close to scoring.

As for the midfield, I want to ask you, did you wake up one morning and decide that you would suddenly back Muntari "just to p!ss those gullible f@ckers over at Milanfan"? Because what you're saying about him makes no sense. His incessant stupid fouling now helps us? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Come on now!! Everything Muntari does is a drawback for our midfield play. He's a total and complete tactical nightmare, his running around level with the striker really does help out our defensive stability, yes I'm sure.

Once again, I'll ask the question I first posed to R7 and then to you. What was different from yesterday's game to every other one we've played this season? Absolutely none! Only this time we failed to score in order to counter the fact that we've conceded in every game this season bar one, all games might I add included Muntari (aside from one other before this one). It has been proven over and over again that clogging up the midfield with Muntari type players does not help out the defence, the midfield actually looks more inept and we're cut through more easily.

Granted, yesterday going the complete different route and playing an inexperienced winger there wasn't really what we've been advocating for so it didn't really improve matters, just as I mentioned, only eliminated the drawbacks that Muntari brings to the table, but Sapo didn't add anything to our midfield play because he's just not a midfielder.

And again, I totally disagree with you about De Jong, he's a traditional anchor, but he's tasked with so many duties in our midfield that he can't just do that one job that he's great at, which is sitting in front of the defence, covering spaces, winning the ball and passing it to his more creative team mate, he's also tasked with being our playmaker, which is absolutely ridiculous. Rino was so great at what he did because he recovered the ball and offloaded it as quickly as possible to Pirlo, De Jong has to recover the ball and start the attacking move himself in this team.

For one, Pippo should have introduced a new tactical system, which imo he hasn't. We absolutely have no identity in how we play. With Allegri and Seedorf for example we all knew what we would play like

Allegri: Tedius, useless possession at all costs
Seedorf, Pressing high up the pitch, possession and quick attacking manoeuvres
Pippo: No f@cking clue!