[kurtsimonw]

There's been a few things coming out of UEFA lately, like the spending caps, 6+5 rule, etc and I didn't kno where to put them without going OT in another thread in Football Discussion. Lock if you don't feel it'll be used enough.

Anyways, something else from UEFA.

Uefa gives green light for Platini's spending restrictions on clubs

The plan devised by Uefa's president, Michel Platini, to make clubs live within their means was approved by an executive committee meeting of European football's governing body today.

Dubbed "financial fair play", the new rules will in principle ban clubs from spending more than they make from their revenues, and aim to curtail the trend of rich owners buying into the game and transforming the fortunes of a club.

"We don't want to kill or hurt the clubs, on the contrary we want to help them in the market," Platini told reporters, adding he had the support of the clubs. "The teams who play in our tournaments have unanimously agreed to our principles," he claimed.

Platini said the new rules would be implemented in the 2012-13 season and clubs who failed to abide by them could ultimately be thrown out of European competition. The new rules would not cover domestic competitions, but only clubs who were competing in the Champions League or Europa League.

In my opinion, this will single handedly destroy the competition in football, it's sickening to read, at least when applied to the EPL anyway.

The way I see it is this. Being in the top 4 gives you so much more money, this is what helps turn a team into a super power, consistant CL qualification. Who are the biggest threats to the CL teams? Using comon sense that would be the teams in 5th and 6th, the places just outside the CL positions. With this new proposal, it pretty much guarentees that the teams in 5th and 6th have no chance of breaking the top 4. The new proposal wants teams in Europe to be capped, with the restriction in spending being based on their income. So the teams that had the best chance of breaking the top 4 are now being restricted in what they can spend, not only this, but they will be able to spend LESS than the teams in the CL as it's based on income! So this will make the gap between 4th and 5th even bigger. Generally, teams outside of Europe are 1. so far away from 4th place that they aren't a worry to the CL teams and 2. don't have the spending power to bridge the gap. It seems that finishing in a Europa League places makes you the most disadvantaged team in the league, you hardly get any revenue from the competition and then you are restricted by how much you can spend.

Thank God for Man City right now, otherwise there would be no hope of anyone breaking the top 4 in this country. Ridiculous, poorly thought out idea from Platini and the money greedy UEFA.

[kurtsimonw]

I know you try to be as fair as possible, Jack, but sometimes your homerism comes to the front.

Capello ,Carlo, Hiddink, can do what Jose has done, provided the same money.

Carlo won 1 league title in 9 years at Juve/Milan, I've yet to see him really accomplish anything outstanding. Winning the CL is fine, it is a good achievment, but with the squads/players he's had? He's won 3 major titles with these clubs, 1 competition every 3 years. I have to say that's a prety awful record. Carlo may not have directly spent any money, but Inzaghi, Sheva, Nesta, Rui Costa, etc. were players at his disposal and they weren't exactly free.

Sacchi already proved it with Milan. The point is none of these coaches were constantly given the same amount of resources that Jose has been.

I disagree strongly with this. Did Jose spend money? No doubt, and lots of it. But in relation to the money spend and the time they spent it, Sacchi certainly spent more. Didn't Sacchi break the World transfer record once or twice with his signings? The Milan of the late 80s/early 90s was probably the first Galactico's era in modern football! Jose didn't break World records, in fact, I don't think he broke the British record. Sheva may have come close, but then I'd even say that weren't his signing.

I think too much emphasis and spotlight is put on his time at Chelsea. It's the same with MON at Villa, we have a section of support that doesn't like him and say he'd only done well at Celtic because it was a 2 horse race, but he had ridiculous success at Wycombe and Leicester, just like Jose had at Porto.

Jose didn't leave because he wasn't doing well, hell, they didn't win the league the season before he left either. I think he was sick of being undermined by the owner.

[Jack Sparrow]

I know you try to be as fair as possible, Jack, but sometimes your homerism comes to the front.


Carlo won 1 league title in 9 years at Juve/Milan, I've yet to see him really accomplish anything outstanding. Winning the CL is fine, it is a good achievment, but with the squads/players he's had? He's won 3 major titles with these clubs, 1 competition every 3 years. I have to say that's a prety awful record. Carlo may not have directly spent any money, but Inzaghi, Sheva, Nesta, Rui Costa, etc. were players at his disposal and they weren't exactly free.


I disagree strongly with this. Did Jose spend money? No doubt, and lots of it. But in relation to the money spend and the time they spent it, Sacchi certainly spent more. Didn't Sacchi break the World transfer record once or twice with his signings? The Milan of the late 80s/early 90s was probably the first Galactico's era in modern football! Jose didn't break World records, in fact, I don't think he broke the British record. Sheva may have come close, but then I'd even say that weren't his signing.

I think too much emphasis and spotlight is put on his time at Chelsea. It's the same with MON at Villa, we have a section of support that doesn't like him and say he'd only done well at Celtic because it was a 2 horse race, but he had ridiculous success at Wycombe and Leicester, just like Jose had at Porto.

Jose didn't leave because he wasn't doing well, hell, they didn't win the league the season before he left either. I think he was sick of being undermined by the owner.

I don't get this part.

I can argue that Mourinho had Cole, Terry, Lampard, Makalele at his disposal too. Maybe not CL material, but definitely good enough to win the league, which Mourinho did after spending some more.

And the transfer record has really no basis.

So suppose Milan paid 94 million euros to buy Ronaldo, they've broken the world transfer record

And Real Madrid did all the purchases they did this season except perhaps instead of CR9 they buy Robinho for 20 million (coz Man City found out Robinho is gay and sold him for a discount).

Do you know what the record fee Sacchi spent was ? 6 million for Ruud Guulit. Even adjusted for inflation I doubt it would cross 25 million euros.

You can argue Capello and Lentini but Lentini's price of 13 million, would be around 40 million today. A large sum but not inordinate.

Here's the breakdown.:

WENGER:
(Year - Expense/Income)


2004/05 - £1,000,000 / £2,600,000
2005/06 - £32,350,000 / £13,700,000
2006/07 - £11,900,000 / £27,600,000
2007/08 - £13,200,000 / £9,500,000

SAF:

2004/05 - £20,000,000 / £3,850,000
2005/06 - £17,500,000 / £6,500,000
2006/07 - £35,600,000 / £15,200,000


Benitez:

2004/05 - £25,550,000 / £10,500,000
2005/06 - £36,900,000 / £9,500,000
2006/07 - £44,800,000 / £13,630,000
2007/08 - £22,500,000 / £19,900,000

MoN:

2006/07 - £24,650,000 / £3,050,000
2007/08 - £8,750,000 / £10,000,000
(He spent 44 MM the next season)

Mourinho:
2004/05 - £56,850,000 / £12,700,000
2005/06 - £92,400,000 / £20,800,000
2006/07 - £7,000,000 / £15,800,000
2007/08 - £13,500,000 / £6,000,000



I'll break it down even further. This is from an old Times article:

Manchester United’s total spending since the 2004-05 season : £116.1m

2007-08: £55 million

2006-07: £18.6m

2005-06: £17.5m

2004-05: £25m

Won: Premiership 1, Carling Cup 1



Chelsea’s total spending : £213.7m

2007-08: £0

2006-07: £66.3m

2005-06: £56.4m

2004-05: £91m

Won: Premiership 2, FA Cup 1, Carling Cup 2

[kurtsimonw]

I don't get this part.

I can argue that Mourinho had Cole, Terry, Lampard, Makalele at his disposal too. Maybe not CL material, but definitely good enough to win the league, which Mourinho did after spending some more.

There's a difference though. Inzaghi, Sheva, Nesta and Rui probably cost up near £75m for the 4. Terry was a youth player, Lampard cost £10m, Cole cost £10m and Makelele was a bit more expensive, but it still doesn't compare to £70m-odd.

And the transfer record has really no basis.

So suppose Milan paid 94 million euros to buy Ronaldo, they've broken the world transfer record

And Real Madrid did all the purchases they did this season except perhaps instead of CR9 they buy Robinho for 20 million (coz Man City found out Robinho is gay and sold him for a discount).

Do you know what the record fee Sacchi spent was ? 6 million for Ruud Guulit. Even adjusted for inflation I doubt it would cross 25 million euros.

Prices in football aren't relative to inflation, you know that. The top end is the top end, regardless. Breaking the World record for £1m in 1960 is no different that breaking the World reocrd for £6m in 1990, it's just what the top footballers cost. I will agree that there are some exceptions, like what Madrid did this year, that kind of spending goes way and above the norm and I highly doubt you'll see many transfers surpass the Zidane/Figo prices like that agin.



I'm not intending to be awkward, I'm just having a little trouble understand some of these figures.

WENGER:
(Year - Expense/Income)


2004/05 - £1,000,000 / £2,600,000
2005/06 - £32,350,000 / £13,700,000
2006/07 - £11,900,000 / £27,600,000
2007/08 - £13,200,000 / £9,500,000

SAF:

2004/05 - £20,000,000 / £3,850,000
2005/06 - £17,500,000 / £6,500,000
2006/07 - £35,600,000 / £15,200,000


Benitez:

2004/05 - £25,550,000 / £10,500,000
2005/06 - £36,900,000 / £9,500,000
2006/07 - £44,800,000 / £13,630,000
2007/08 - £22,500,000 / £19,900,000

MoN:

2006/07 - £24,650,000 / £3,050,000
2007/08 - £8,750,000 / £10,000,000
(He spent 44 MM the next season)

Mourinho:
2004/05 - £56,850,000 / £12,700,000
2005/06 - £92,400,000 / £20,800,000
2006/07 - £7,000,000 / £15,800,000
2007/08 - £13,500,000 / £6,000,000



I'll break it down even further. This is from an old Times article:

Manchester United’s total spending since the 2004-05 season : £116.1m

2007-08: £55 million

2006-07: £18.6m

2005-06: £17.5m

2004-05: £25m

Won: Premiership 1, Carling Cup 1



Chelsea’s total spending : £213.7m

2007-08: £0

2006-07: £66.3m

2005-06: £56.4m

2004-05: £91m

Won: Premiership 2, FA Cup 1, Carling Cup 2

There's no way in hell Villa spent near £25m in MONs first season, no way. He joined the club very very late and only signed Petrov and Maloney on fees, the rest were free transfers. The combined fees for the 2 were only around £8m. We then signed Carew in swap with Baros and Young for £9.5m, so that works out to around £17m or so.

Onto Chelsea. In the Jose breakdown, you have him spending £92m and selling £20m worth, which would come to £72, yet on your 'further breakdown', the total spending for that year is £56m, how does that work out, or am I mising something?

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Overall, I do understand and agree with your point, I'm not suggesting Jose hasn't been given tonnes of money. But re-read my next to last paragraph on my previous post and you'll see what I mean. Everyone knows Jose won alot at Chelsea, but we know he was given the funds to do so too. I will add that on a spend-per-year basis, Ranieri spent more and won nothing, while Jose won an average of 2 trophies per season, so it shows it wasn't only the money, otherwise Ranieri would have won at least something. But I go back to his time at Porto, I doubt we'll see a CLass B team winning the European Cup anytime soon, UEFA thought they'd stopped that happening when they introduced the Champions League, but you can't stop Jose. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)