[Portman]

(IMG:http://www.evenements-et-voyages.com/evenements_fichiers/football_san_siro_milan_ac.jpg)

Média de assistências nos estádios 2007/2008:

1. Real Madrid CF (Espanha) - 76.200
2. Manchester United (Inglaterra) - 75.690
3. Borussia Dortmund (Alemanha) - 72.500
4. Bayern Munique (Alemanha) - 69.000
5. FC Barcelona (Espanha) - 67.560
6. Schalke 04 (Alemanha) - 61.275
7. Arsenal FC (Inglaterra) - 60.070
8. Celtic FC (Escócia) - 56.675
9. AC Milan (Itália) 56.640
10. Hamburguer SV (Alemanha) - 55.365
11. Olympique Marseille - (França) - 52.600
12. Newcastle United (Inglaterra) - 51.324
13. Internazionale (Itália) - 51.210
14. VfB Stuttgart (Alemanha) - 50.445
15. FC Rangers (Escócia) - 49.145
16. Ajax (Holanda) - 49.125
17. Eintracht Frankfurt (Alemanha) - 48.325
18. Hertha BSC (Alemanha) - 45.440
19. Atlético de Madrid (Espanha) - 45.255
20. Feyenoord (Holanda) - 44.620
21. FC Koln (Alemanha) - 43.740
22. Liverpool FC (Inglaterra) - 43.534
23. FC Nuremberg (Alemanha) - 43.450
24. Sunderland (Inglaterra) - 43.343
25. Manchester City (Inglaterra) - 42.126
26. Chelsea FC (Inglaterra) - 41.396
27. SS Napoli (Itália) - 40.780
28. Valencia (Espanha) - 40.710
29. Borussia Munchengladbach (Alemanha) - 40.250
30. Hannover 96 (Alemanha) - 40.235
31. Werder Bremen (Alemanha) - 40.310
32. Aston Villa (Inglaterra) - 39.870
33. FC Sevilla (Espanha) - 39.555
34. SL Benfica (Portugal) - 38.709
35. FC Porto (Portugal) - 38.630
36. Real Bétis (Espanha) - 37.420
37. Olympique Lyonnais (França) - 37.295
38. AS Roma (Itália) - 37.275
39. Everton FC (Inglaterra) - 36.955
40. Paris Saint-Germain (França) - 36.945
41. Athletic Bilbao (Espanha) - 36.235
42. Tottenham Hotspurs (Inglaterra) - 35.966
43. Munique 1860 (Alemanha) - 35.070
44. RC Lens (França) - 34.655
45. West Ham United (Inglaterra) - 34.600
46. PSV Eindhoven (Holanda) - 33.510
47. Fiorentina (Itália) - 31.385
48. Derby County (Inglaterra) - 30.870
49. Sporting CP (Portugal) - 30.721
50. Real Zaragoza (Espanha) - 30.710

Source: Football Finance - http://www.futebolfinance.com/o-numero-de-...opeus-20072008/

Above there's the average of the attendances @ last season in Europe. And as we can see, we're the only italian club in the top 10 though we had the worst season of the last 7-8 years.

[Jack Sparrow]

Ok..fine..don't ask X or Y or Z or whoever.

Just ask yourself, how suddenly in the Ronaldinho era, the number of Barca shirts shot up. Or how suddenly Chelsea are the second/third most supported EPL team from being nowhere 10 years ago.

What happened? All those 'eternally true' fans suddenly decided to stand up and be counted. Face it Chelsea started winning stuff, people noticed, and people who had never ever followed football, but now couldn't ignore it, needed a team to support. And bada boom, bada bing they choose the most winning team.

It started with Beckham mania. And it continued with Liverpool's Istanbul. If you ever went to goal.com's India site...and heard the fan answers. The question is 'Since when do you support Liverpool?' 'Oh..when I saw Istanbul, I was really amazed...blahblahblah'. Benitez is the greatest manager ever. Torres the best forward ever. You read the comments too.

As for 10-40%.

Considering that there might be millions of fans, that does consitute a very small number. It's not the same as saying 3 out of 4 people you meet are glory hunters.

Frankly speaking, everyone who's not a native of the club's city, starts out as glory hunters. Maybe later they develop a genuine interest in the club. But there is no hiding that keeping Madrid's huge worldwide fanbase, and the relatively low age of the fans, it's a glory hunting phenomenon.

As for your 4 year argument...those 4 years were always a case of almost there. It was never a 4 years of darkness. Let Madrid go through a Leeds united or a Juventus like period and we'll talk about 'true fans'. 5 will get you 20, you'd see a sudden sudden fall.

If I could or knew how, I'd draw up figures of how much Juventus shirt sales have fallen in India. But it's enough to walk on the streets to know that. The numbers show up in front of your eyes.

[Zed.D]

Ok..fine..don't ask X or Y or Z or whoever.

Just ask yourself, how suddenly in the Ronaldinho era, the number of Barca shirts shot up. Or how suddenly Chelsea are the second/third most supported EPL team from being nowhere 10 years ago.

What happened? All those 'eternally true' fans suddenly decided to stand up and be counted. Face it Chelsea started winning stuff, people noticed, and people who had never ever followed football, but now couldn't ignore it, needed a team to support. And bada boom, bada bing they choose the most winning team.

It started with Beckham mania. And it continued with Liverpool's Istanbul. If you ever went to goal.com's India site...and heard the fan answers. The question is 'Since when do you support Liverpool?' 'Oh..when I saw Istanbul, I was really amazed...blahblahblah'. Benitez is the greatest manager ever. Torres the best forward ever. You read the comments too.

As for 10-40%.

Considering that there might be millions of fans, that does consitute a very small number. It's not the same as saying 3 out of 4 people you meet are glory hunters.

Frankly speaking, everyone who's not a native of the club's city, starts out as glory hunters. Maybe later they develop a genuine interest in the club. But there is no hiding that keeping Madrid's huge worldwide fanbase, and the relatively low age of the fans, it's a glory hunting phenomenon.

As for your 4 year argument...those 4 years were always a case of almost there. It was never a 4 years of darkness. Let Madrid go through a Leeds united or a Juventus like period and we'll talk about 'true fans'. 5 will get you 20, you'd see a sudden sudden fall.

If I could or knew how, I'd draw up figures of how much Juventus shirt sales have fallen in India. But it's enough to walk on the streets to know that. The numbers show up in front of your eyes.

Don't ever compare Chelsea with Barca and Madrid. I'm not even talking about Chelsea. I'm talking about Madrid and Barca, even though I dislike the latter. in Ronaldinho era the shirt sales increased? so what? that's not the point. are you trying to sidetrack from the topic? we're talking about attendance and Madrid have always had an almost full stadium in their home games as far as I remember. why do you keep changing the topic to Galacticos era or Chelsea comparisons or Liverpool's Istanbul, etc.?? these things have nothing to do with the fact that Madrid have the highest home game attendance in Europe.

Look, we're talking very generally. I don't care what people's comments on goal.com India or whatever are and I'm certainly not going to change my mind and what I see every time Madrid have a home game by some people's comments either. I've watched Real Channel probably more than any of you guys and have seen countless interviews with the fans before Madrid's home games, outside the stadium. if I'm ever gonna judge anything based on what people say, I'll go with these people not with a bunch of Madrid haters' opinions.

4 trophy-less seasons is definitely a dark period for a winning team like Madrid. and don't hold your breath for the day Madrid go through a Leeds or Juventus because they're neither financially unstable [and will never be] nor a bunch of cheaters. they sure have some dirty policies. but it's just that, dirty. not illegal nor cheating on others.

And this bit, you did not answer:

You know, it's funny to call teams like Madrid and Barca's fans glory hunters when they're always beside their team even if they spent four season without winning a single trophy, but say Milan fans (those who live in Milan/ Lombardy/ Italy) are not, when a few seasons of mediocrity in the league + Calciopoli in the league was enough to for them to not attend the matches like they did when the team was at its good days...

Milan's average home attendance dropped almost 13,000 the season after the Calciopoli. had this happened to Madrid, wouldn't you have said that 13,000 people are a bunch of 'glory hunters' who left their team alone because they knew the team would have no chance of winning the league title with an 8-point deduction?? of course you would have said that...

[Habitant]

Don't ever compare Chelsea with Barca and Madrid. I'm not even talking about Chelsea. I'm talking about Madrid and Barca, even though I dislike the latter. in Ronaldinho era the shirt sales increased? so what? that's not the point. are you trying to sidetrack from the topic? we're talking about attendance and Madrid have always had an almost full stadium in their home games as far as I remember. why do you keep changing the topic to Galacticos era or Chelsea comparisons or Liverpool's Istanbul, etc.?? these things have nothing to do with the fact that Madrid have the highest home game attendance in Europe.

Look, we're talking very generally. I don't care what people's comments on goal.com India or whatever are and I'm certainly not going to change my mind and what I see every time Madrid have a home game by some people's comments either. I've watched Real Channel probably more than any of you guys and have seen countless interviews with the fans before Madrid's home games, outside the stadium. if I'm ever gonna judge anything based on what people say, I'll go with these people not with a bunch of Madrid haters' opinions.

4 trophy-less seasons is definitely a dark period for a winning team like Madrid. and don't hold your breath for the day Madrid go through a Leeds or Juventus because they're neither financially unstable [and will never be] nor a bunch of cheaters. they sure have some dirty policies. but it's just that, dirty. not illegal nor cheating on others.

And this bit, you did not answer:




Milan's average home attendance dropped almost 13,000 the season after the Calciopoli. had this happened to Madrid, wouldn't you have said that 13,000 people are a bunch of 'glory hunters' who left their team alone because they knew the team would have no chance of winning the league title with an 8-point deduction?? of course you would have said that...

and how have you come to this conclusion? especially for club thats had it's hands in the royal family and goverments pocket (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)