[KillerMax]

Week 36:

Atalanta - Livorno
Cagliari - Fiorentina
Catania - Reggina
Empoli - Udinese
Lazio - Palermo
Milan - Inter
Parma - Genoa
Sampdoria - Roma
Siena - Juventus
Torino - Napoli

[morgoth]

Guts is when you take a team who's average age is well above 30 and go beyond all expectations and criticism to achieve something, that made Europe stand up and applaud.

No no, that's not guts, in fact it has a little to do with the coach! It's the player who understood that if they don't play football, their season would be over in march. The only thing that Carlos could have done is asking for some pity because his job was at risk after the first leg against Bayern. It's also some luck, considering the draw, but who doesn't need luck in life?

Motivation ?! He brought the team back to life after Istanbul, that night the team was shattered, the season after that the team only got stronger. What more ?! Oh another ?! He took the team last season to European glory, when most other coaches and their teams would have not withstood the pressure.

Come on, are you serious? I think you're confusing the club's character with the coach's. We're talking about Milan here not some random club ... The team got stronger after Istanbul?! We (may be) had the same quality for a year, but after that we lost some great players and the quality of the play dropped a lot, so don't tell me the team got stronger, unless you're talking about the mental strength.

What Andrea Pirlo is today, is because of Carlo Ancelotti. And Seedorf ? I mean, I cant criticize him, the man is (as Desailly dubbed him) a junction in the heart of the Milan midfield, most team  would kill for a midfielder like him.

Yeah, Desailly is funny at times ... I know Seedorf is a great player especially in the great occasions and so is Pirlo, but you can't let someone who's not showing anything but cr@p on the field! Those guys needs to taste the bench, they know the coach too well, so they play only when they want to because they don't have any concurrence. This is no healthy for a team!
Oh, and what Pirlo is today (the superstar stature) is because of Carlo, yes but the talent was always there.

It is always easy to criticize my friend, seeing has hindsight is always 50-50. And I am not one to tell you agree with me or don't, I just hope you can see that there are different aspects that you need to consider.

Don't worry, I'm done criticizing, I developed apathy regarding Milan, and believe me I considered more than one aspect before condemning our management.

Of course Seedorf has more freedom when he is behind the strikers ... With that said, you need to take into account that there is a balance in midfield that the coach needs to pay heed to. Something us fans don't necessarily comprehend.

Isn't it exactly what I was talking about? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I don't think Pirlo has motivation problems. Along with Gattuso he has the highest number of appearances by a mile (also considering the games he's played with the Italian NT) and I think it's tiredness more than anything.

I didn't say it was motivation, it's more of a desire. I honestly think that he's preparing to the EURO and doesn't want to get injured.
In another hand, it's true that he plays a lot, but you look at the way he plays, you'll notice that it's logical. He doesn't actually run like Rino or Kaka, that's why he tires less than the others.

[Rossoneri7]

No no, that's not guts, in fact it has a little to do with the coach! It's the player who understood that if they don't play football, their season would be over in march. The only thing that Carlos could have done is asking for some pity because his job was at risk after the first leg against Bayern. It's also some luck, considering the draw, but who doesn't need luck in life?

Ok, please .. We are talking about top flight football here. The manager (coach) along with his staff are paid in millions each year to do their job (and we have no idea what they do from one sunday to another). It is not about who is the most risk taker or who is the least or gutless ... Each coach has a style of play. I mean, you cant watch Wenger's Arsenal and say ok I like how they play why cant Milan play like that ... You just can't Wenger adapts a one touch, fast tempo build up play with the ball on the ground. Ancelotti's Milan play 'chess', smart, slow tempo, highly tactical play ... Capello is that of a defensive coach etc etc ...

It is his style style. And despite this being very bad season (in comparison to what Carlo has given this club), he has done very well in giving back this club it's Champions League pedigree.

Come on, are you serious? I think you're confusing the club's character with the coach's. We're talking about Milan here not some random club ... The team got stronger after Istanbul?! We (may be) had the same quality for a year, but after that we lost some great players and the quality of the play dropped a lot, so don't tell me the team got stronger, unless you're talking about the mental strength.

Yes, this is Milan. And yes Milan is the greatest club (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/96.gif) ... But still, referring to motivation, the coach brought the team back together and made them even stronger (of course mentally (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).

The coach is the first one to receive criticism for a season like ours and the first one to receive praise when he wins a trophy. It's either black or white from a fan's point of view .. And I'm not expecting any different from anyone here (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ... Just don't go full out on a coach who has brought us so much joy over the last six years .. Who knows, we might reminisce a couple of yrs down the road when he's gone, just like the time of Sacchi (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, Desailly is funny at times ... I know Seedorf is a great player especially in the great occasions and so is Pirlo, but you can't let someone who's not showing anything but cr@p on the field! Those guys needs to taste the bench, they know the coach too well, so they play only when they want to because they don't have any concurrence. This is no healthy for a team!
Oh, and what Pirlo is today (the superstar stature) is because of Carlo, yes but the talent was always there.

The talent was always there, but the position that Pirlo plays in now (the deep lying midfielder), that is all Carlo ... And as for Seedorf, yeah he tends to seem unmotivated at times. And I do sometimes wish he was on the bench ... But overall, when he is on form, he is one of the best midfielders in Europe.

Don't worry, I'm done criticizing, I developed apathy regarding Milan, and believe me I considered more than one aspect before condemning our management.

Considering this the worst season of Carlo's reign ... I think he has done considerably well in his time here. I mean, Barca won the CL and La Liga in 2006 and have been dry for two years running, they have the best players in the world from the defense to the attack .. and their bench is very rich.

It's not a matter of had the management bought this player or that player ... more of a how much have we won. And no team has won as much as this in the span of Carlo's reign.

[morgoth]

Ok, please .. We are talking about top flight football here. The manager (coach) along with his staff are paid in millions each year to do their job (and we have no idea what they do from one sunday to another). It is not about who is the most risk taker or who is the least or gutless ... Each coach has a style of play. I mean, you cant watch  Wenger's Arsenal and say ok I like how they play why cant Milan play like that ... You just can't Wenger adapts a one touch, fast tempo build up play with the ball on the ground. Ancelotti's Milan play 'chess', smart, slow tempo, highly tactical play ... Capello is that of a defensive coach etc etc ...

Of course every coach has his style, but what I'm trying to talk about are the changes you make when your original/preferred tactics don't work, when you need to make a substitution because your team is struggling, and in that matter Carlo has no clue at all. We all know Carlo's favourite formation is the tree one, but he always changes to a 4-4-1-1 at best you get the 4-4-2. Even now that he has Pato, he doesn't use him because he's afraid to play with 2 strikers (even against Livorno). Last summer he said he was working on a new 3 men defence, have seen it in the games? Of course not, even when we were losing to the likes of Atalanta he didn't use it! Why? do you think he didn't because Nesta-Paolo-Kala is a bad combo or because he was afraid to fail? My bet is on the second choice!

It is his style style. And despite this being very bad season (in comparison to what Carlo has given this club), he has done very well in giving back this club it's Champions League pedigree.
Yes, this is Milan. And yes Milan is the greatest club (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/96.gif) ... But still, referring to motivation, the coach brought the team back together and made them even stronger (of course mentally (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).

Again, I think it's like more than 70% due to the quality of the players we have (the starting eleven)

The coach is the first one to receive criticism for a season like ours and the first one to receive praise when he wins a trophy. It's either black or white from a fan's point of view .. And I'm not expecting any different from anyone here (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ... Just don't go full out on a coach who has brought us so much joy over the last six years .. Who knows, we might reminisce a couple of yrs down the road when he's gone, just like the time of Sacchi  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I think I never said or even thought that! In fact, for me it's 70% the management's fault. But what I can't stand is a coach who can't be bossy and sticks with his ideas (formations) no matter what.

The talent was always there, but the position that Pirlo plays in now (the deep lying midfielder), that is all Carlo ... And as for Seedorf, yeah he tends to seem unmotivated at times. And I do sometimes wish he was on the bench ... But overall, when he is on form, he is one of the best midfielders in Europe.
Considering this the worst season of Carlo's reign ... I think he has done considerably well in his time here. I mean, Barca won the CL and La Liga in 2006 and have been dry for two years running, they have the best players in the world from the defense to the attack .. and their bench is very rich.

It's not a matter of had the management bought this player or that player ... more of a how much have we won. And no team has won as much as this in the span of Carlo's reign.

I know that Pirlo's position is Carlo's idea and I think it was his better one, but sometimes even if you like your players like your own children you have to have a strong character, and let them know when they're not doing well, and just like a father would do punish them if necessary. That's what Carlo lacks.

Barcelona is another story, they have some trouble makers and clans, their squad is not united like Milan is (and that's the main reason of our last year's success) so you can't compare them with Milan, it's another level of organisation. Having said that, I really think Carlo's success is due to the club's philosophy, to the quality of the players we have, to the unity that exists between the player ... etc the coach's skills have very little to do with our success, I think any other decent coach would have achieved the same things Carlo did. May be it's just me, but I'm quite sure about it.

[Rossoneri7]

Of course every coach has his style, but what I'm trying to talk about are the changes you make when your original/preferred tactics don't work, when you need to make a substitution because your team is struggling, and in that matter Carlo has no clue at all. We all know Carlo's favourite formation is the tree one, but he always changes to a 4-4-1-1 at best you get the 4-4-2. Even now that he has Pato, he doesn't use him because he's afraid to play with 2 strikers (even against Livorno). Last summer he said he was working on a new 3 men defence, have seen it in the games? Of course not, even when we were losing to the likes of Atalanta he didn't use it! Why? do you think he didn't because Nesta-Paolo-Kala is a bad combo or because he was afraid to fail? My bet is on the second choice!

This is exactly what I am trying to clear up to u (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ... What do you mean he has no clue ?! He needs to take into account the opposition's tactics, he has over a zillion things going in his head during the course of a match, he has to maintain a certain rhythm with the team on the pitch ...

It's not like he sticks with the tree just because he doesn't know. He is a renowned coach; he does play with 3 cb when Milan have possession one of the backs pushes forward and three stay back.

Maybe you have a different idea in mind to the way Milan should play ... But that doesn't mean Carlo doesn't know what he is doing ... Not many coaches can do what Carlo did in the span of his time here.

Again, I think it's like more than 70% due to the quality of the players we have (the starting eleven)

If that is what you think ... Then by all means (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I think I never said or even thought that! In fact, for me it's 70% the management's fault. But what I can't stand is a coach who can't be bossy and sticks with his ideas (formations) no matter what.

Again, don't contradict yourself, this is Milan not Chelsea.

I know that Pirlo's position is Carlo's idea and I think it was his better one, but sometimes even if you like your players like your own children you have to have a strong character, and let them know when they're not doing well, and just like a father would do punish them if necessary. That's what Carlo lacks.

Barcelona is another story, they have some trouble makers and clans, their squad is not united like Milan is (and that's the main reason of our last year's success) so you can't compare them with Milan, it's another level of organisation. Having said that, I really think Carlo's success is due to the club's philosophy, to the quality of the players we have, to the unity that exists between the player ... etc the coach's skills have very little to do with our success, I think any other decent coach would have achieved the same things Carlo did. May be it's just me, but I'm quite sure about it.

That in itself is true ... But the way the team plays, the different tactical setups within the pitch is due to the manager. I mean, Galliani and Silvio are not stupid to employ any average coach and say 'here are 11 of the best in Europe go do something with them.' There needs to be a game plan a strategy ... Something Carlo has engraved into this very team.

[morgoth]

This is exactly what I am trying to clear up to u (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)   ... What do you mean he has no clue ?! He needs to take into account the opposition's tactics, he has over a zillion things going in his head during the course of a match, he has to maintain a certain rhythm with the team on the pitch ...

It's not like he sticks with the tree just because he doesn't know. He is a renowned coach; he does play with 3 cb when Milan have possession one of the backs pushes forward and three stay back.

Maybe you have a different idea in mind to the way Milan should play ... But that doesn't mean Carlo doesn't know what he is doing ... Not many coaches can do what Carlo did in the span of his time here.

I'm not judging Carlo on what he thinks (I don't don't have that power (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ). I'm judging him n what he actually does, the substitutions he makes, the tactical changes ... etc So may be you're right, he knows a lot, but when he doesn't execute than it's more of stupidity (or guts) than being clueless!
Oh, he never actually played with 3 CB's, he plays with 4 defenders (2 of them being Cafu and Janku) and when one of the wing b acks go forward the other stays at the back, so there are 3 guys a the back but he doesn't play with 3 CB's at all, the only time he did it it was against Barcelona (Group stage, 1-0) and it was more a 5-3-2 with Cafu and Sergio in the flanks.

Again, don't contradict yourself, this is Milan not Chelsea.

Where's the contradiction, Milan having a bossy coach? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
What was Sacchi, Cappello?

That in itself is true ... But the way the team plays, the different tactical setups within the pitch is due to the manager. I mean, Galliani and Silvio are not stupid to employ any average coach and say 'here are 11 of the best in Europe go do something with them.' There needs to be a game plan a strategy ... Something Carlo has engraved into this very team.

Yeah sure, but when it comes to decision, crucial ones, where's Carlo? What's actually the role of a coach? He's there for the tactical aspect and to motivate the players more than anything else, they have coaches for the training, the gym, a medical staff that follows their progression and health ... etc So he's role is to make the difference by setting up the formation and the tactical moves+motivation. Carlo did it very well for the first 4-5 years but then when he lost some key players he couldn't do anything, he was lost because he couldn't adapt, he became too predictable, had no creativity, that's what I'm talking about. I didn't even talk about the motivation issue, the emulation, and the strong character ... Do you remember when Billy said something like "Carlo cannot motivate the players anymore" do you remember the Seedorf and Kaka incident, I sure he's the only coach on the planet that could say something like that "Why should argue with the future ballon d'or winner?" (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)