[Milan Are Brilli...]

Recent Bundesliga Champions (Since '92)
92/93 Werder Bremen
93/94 Bayern Munich
94/95 Borussia Dortmund
95/96 Borussia Dortmund
96/97 Bayern Munich
97/98 1. FC Kaiserslautern
98/99 Bayern Munich
99/00 Bayern Munich
00/01 Bayern Munich
01/02 Borussia Dortmund
02/03 Bayern Munich
03/04 Werder Bremen
04/05 Bayern Munich
05/06 Bayern Munich
06/07 VfB Stuttgart
07/08 Bayern Munich
08/09 VfL Wolfsburg
09/10 Bayern Munich
10/11 Borussia Dortmund
11/12 Borussia Dortmund

[Fillipo Simone]

Should be an interesting season ahead of us.

[CHU-LIP]

About time for Gladbach to win the league again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

About time for Gladbach to win the league again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You think it's possible? As I said earlier, I think last seasons success was the teams maximum. Loosing Reus and Dante doesn't help either.

[kurtsimonw]

Dortmund/Bayern to run away as the top 2 again.

[Fillipo Simone]

I'd say Bayern. They've gotta win it now, or else big changes should/could be introduced.

[CHU-LIP]

You think it's possible? As I said earlier, I think last seasons success was the teams maximum. Loosing Reus and Dante doesn't help either.

Nah. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Last season was not their maximum though, or at least they could do similar this season. I expect they will. Gladbach haven't become weaker. Luuk de Jong, Alvaro Dominguez and Granit Xhaka are quality players, making up for the three quality players that left. Most starters who are still here are very young and will only do better now, like Patrick Herrmann. 3rd or 4th should be very possible, Schalke may get 3rd again. The other teams are not better than Gladbach. Anything less than European football, and I'm hugely disappointed.

Dortmund/Bayern to run away as the top 2 again.

Most likely, yes. Both should finish top 2. They are the obvious two best sides currently.

I'd say Bayern. They've gotta win it now, or else big changes should/could be introduced.

If Schweinsteiger gets back to his former self, Bayern are favourites. Bayern really missed him last season.

Should be close between Bayern and Dortmund, though you never know what will happen, a team like Schalke can at least stick with them for most of the season, or one side can dominate like Dortmund has done two years back, and Bayern obviously can do the same. As long as the champions have Borussia in their name, I'm happy.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Aug 12 2012, 05:40 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

Don't know why, but I expect Dortmund to disappoint this season. Somehow I don't see them winning 3 strait titles, even if it is a really good team.

And for once I hope they'll present a thread in Europe as well. Last season it was just laughable how they got eliminated.

[CHU-LIP]

Who knows, I don't rule out Schalke coming in 2nd, but I would be shocked if Dortmund will really disappoint.

Shinji Kagawa was Dortmund's key player last season, and even though Marco Reus and Mario Götze are quality players as well, we have to see first how that will go. Last season Dortmund used to struggle first (bar the first match), because of missing former key player Nuri Sahin, which is why they ruined the Champions League, and also lost many points in the league. I don't expect Dortmund to have another (early) period that's that horrible, so they should do better in Champions League now.

Also the season where Sahin was the key player, Kagawa has been important as well. Last season Kagawa became even more important. So Dortmund will be a different Dortmund, so that'd be interesting.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Aug 12 2012, 06:22 PM

[CHU-LIP]

Well, against Bayern Dortmund actually did disappoint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I would not look too much into it though. The starting midfield was a joke. Kehl and Bender were injured, and they were very well missed, same goes for Götze who only subbed in. It is up to Götze to shine this season, because if he doesn't, Dortmund will miss former key player Kagawa a lot. Götze should be Dortmund's attacking midfielder, not Reus, while Götze comes closer to offering that what Kagawa (and also Sahin) has been doing in Dortmund's midfield than Reus does. Since Kuba is a good right-winger, Reus position should be left-wing.

This will probably be Bayern's season though. They only have become stronger, and Dortmund weaker. Also keep in mind how Bayern's key player Schweinsteiger was mostly injured and later off form last season.

[Fillipo Simone]

Why do you put so much emphasis on Kagawa? I don't think he was the crucial part; when he went out injured the season before, almost nothing changed - Dortmund still dominated. Don't get me wrong, he's an important player and was excellent in many departments, but I wouldn't say he was or is their key player.

[X-Offender]

Why do you put so much emphasis on Kagawa?

Because CHU loves Japanese people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[CHU-LIP]

Why do you put so much emphasis on Kagawa? I don't think he was the crucial part; when he went out injured the season before, almost nothing changed - Dortmund still dominated. Don't get me wrong, he's an important player and was excellent in many departments, but I wouldn't say he was or is their key player.

Well, in my opinion he was. I can't name one player who was more important for Dortmund when it comes to creating attacks, and holding possession, than him. He's that kind of player that made it all much more easier.

Because CHU loves Japanese people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I don't love Kagawa. His girlfriend I could though.

[Fillipo Simone]

I'm not so sure. He's managed an overall of 9 assists in the Bundesliga over 2 seasons which isn't that impressive. I'd say Lewandowski was much more crucial, but Klopp managed to build a real team, not just a group of individuals.

[CHU-LIP]

I'm not so sure. He's managed an overall of 9 assists in the Bundesliga over 2 seasons which isn't that impressive. I'd say Lewandowski was much more crucial, but Klopp managed to build a real team, not just a group of individuals.

It's not about the assists. Kagawa has played an important role at many attacks. An usual good thing about Kagawa was giving a very good ball to a winger who then brings the ball to someone in goalscoring position. Obviously Dortmund's strength is being a real team, true. You have to be when playing football like Dortmund does. And then unlike with a group of individuals many players will play an important role during attacks.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Aug 16 2012, 07:23 PM

[kurtsimonw]

How is the guy they got from Moenchengladbach, Reus is it? Is he anywhere near the player that Kagawa is?

[Fillipo Simone]

It's not about the assists. Kagawa has played an important role at many attacks. An usual good thing about Kagawa was giving a very good ball to a winger who then brings the ball to someone in goalscoring position. Obviously Dortmund's strength is being a real team, true. You have to be when playing football like Dortmund does. And then unlike with a group of individuals many players will play an important role during attacks.

Yep he was important, on that we agree. Still, not sure Dortmund will miss him as much. They did fine when he was out for months.

How is the guy they got from Moenchengladbach, Reus is it? Is he anywhere near the player that Kagawa is?

He's good, has potential. Dortmund should bring him to the next level. But he's different - more of a constant menace and not a wing player.

[CHU-LIP]

Yep he was important, on that we agree. Still, not sure Dortmund will miss him as much. They did fine when he was out for months.

When Kagawa was out for months, that was when Dortmund also had Sahin. With (both Götze and) Sahin you can survive much easier without Kagawa. Since Sahin has left, Kagawa only became more important, and even better. Now it is up to Götze and Gündogan to make up for the loss of both Sahin and Kagawa. That is a lot of playmaking that has left with those two. Without Kagawa, Götze finally can play as #10, unless Klopp puts Reus there instead. Let's see if Reus can make Dortmund more clinical. Dortmund has been very good, yet quite wasteful.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Aug 17 2012, 02:27 AM

[Fillipo Simone]

Well, Reus was very good today in the opener. Scored and made the assist.

Dortmund win against Werder 2-1 at home.

[Fillipo Simone]

So, Bayern win comfortable, even though they didn't convince me. I have a feeling Guardiola is coming.

Already miss of the season by Ibisevic - click

[X-Offender]

Shaqiri looked good.

[kurtsimonw]

Already miss of the season by Ibisevic - click

That's so bad.

Even worse when you see the clock says it's the 88th minute, 0-0 and they go on to lose. Ouch.

[Fillipo Simone]

Shaqiri looked good.

Indeed. We'll see where he'll play when Schweini comes back.

How much did Shaqiri cost Bayern again? I don't understand how Milan can't at least pull some deal like this.

That's so bad.

Even worse when you see the clock says it's the 88th minute, 0-0 and they go on to lose. Ouch.

Yep, he ruined it completely.

[Fillipo Simone]

First hick-up by Dortmund. Bayern-Stuttgart today, should be interesting.

[CHU-LIP]

Juan Arango is one of the best players in the world ignoring the obvious ones at the big teams.

If it wasn't for him, Gladbach would have scored no single goal so far.

[Fillipo Simone]

Arango is good, yet he is at times too lazy. Luuk de Jong really is a big mistake though.

[CHU-LIP]

Arango is good, yet he is at times too lazy. Luuk de Jong really is a big mistake though.

Arango is not lazy at all. He tracks back all the time, is always there to make the play, and so far pretty much every goal either gave the assist or made the goal.

And if you expect him to be even more active, well, keep in mind he's old.

[Fillipo Simone]

I know. Not lazy in that matter, but almost every match he has periods of complete blackout/shutdown. He just stops.

Anyway, Bayern demolishing Stuttgart. 3-1 at half time.

[Fillipo Simone]

And Madžukić makes it 4.

[Fillipo Simone]

My God, 3 minutes pass and it's already 6-1. Disastrous Stuttgart defense. This could get ugly.

[X-Offender]

Anyone watched Bayern-Dortmund?

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Dec 2 2012, 05:13 AM

[Fillipo Simone]

I did. Not a bad match at all. Kroos and Götze are top class, just another proof.

[X-Offender]

I did. Not a bad match at all. Kroos and Götze are top class, just another proof.

Aye. And Javi Martinez really turned out a great signing for Bayern.

[Jack Sparrow]

I had beer with Martinez's girlfriend in the Oktoberfest. She's Persian, an architect and quite a looker!

[kurtsimonw]

I did. Not a bad match at all. Kroos and Götze are top class, just another proof.

Gotze, yeah. Never been impressed with Kroos.

[Jack Sparrow]

Gotze, yeah. Never been impressed with Kroos.

Kroos is cerebral man! Think of a working man's Fabregas. If someone told me to go out there and find the next Seedorf, I would have to pause when I came to this dude.

[Fillipo Simone]

Gotze, yeah. Never been impressed with Kroos.

Then you saw the Kroos of some seasons ago. This season he really stepped up. And the fact that he can be a more classic "10" then most of the other WC creative players also counts with my book.

[kurtsimonw]

Sahin back to Dortmund on an 18-month loan.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jan 13 2013, 05:11 PM

[han2503]

Sahin back to Dortmund on an 18-month loan.

Don't know why we didn't even try to go for him

There have been some quality players on the market.

Had we been smart we could have boosted this average side into a really good one.

Sneijder, Sahin, Drogba. They would have taken us to the next level

[kurtsimonw]

Don't know why we didn't even try to go for him

There have been some quality players on the market.

Had we been smart we could have boosted this average side into a really good one.

Sneijder, Sahin, Drogba. They would have taken us to the next level

Agreed. Though I imagine Drogba/Sneider would've been a wage issue. Sneidjer's having this problem because of $$$ and Drogba is only in China because of $$$, not sure how much of a cut they would take to come here, but it would be unrealistic I think.

[han2503]

Agreed. Though I imagine Drogba/Sneider would've been a wage issue. Sneidjer's having this problem because of $$$ and Drogba is only in China because of $$$, not sure how much of a cut they would take to come here, but it would be unrealistic I think.

I think top players like Drogba and Sneijder only go to these teams if they're able to get a big pay day out of them. I'm sure that they would reduce their demands at bigger clubs where they have better opportunities (top league, CL football). They'd still earn good money, but not at the levels they would be earning in lesser teams that play in less popular leagues.

Like Eto'o for example. He was earning good money at Inter and I think he would have been ok with staying. The only reason he accepted Anzhi (sp?) while still at a relatively early stage in his career is because of the huge wages. Same for Ibra with PSG. I think if he had a choice, he'd have rather stayed at Milan for a slightly lower wage, or gone to the EPL. But given the offer PSG made in wages, and the fact that Milan wanted to sell, it made the move acceptable for him

[Fillipo Simone]

You really can't tell that for sure. I think money matters much more then you think for them. They've won all there is to win, and now with a few years of playing left, they wanna cash in.

[X-Offender]

You really can't tell that for sure. I think money matters much more then you think for them. They've won all there is to win, and now with a few years of playing left, they wanna cash in.

+1

[han2503]

You really can't tell that for sure. I think money matters much more then you think for them. They've won all there is to win, and now with a few years of playing left, they wanna cash in.

But this depends on the age as well. Drogba maybe, but Sneijder is still in his 20s. He still has time to go to another big club AND move to a lesser club for a big pay day as well

[Fillipo Simone]

Well, he seems pretty unmotivated to me (also with Holland) and injuries did their thing as well. Don't know, but don't you think United would have knocked on Inter's door if Wesley wanted a big team?

[X-Offender]

Well, he seems pretty unmotivated to me (also with Holland) and injuries did their thing as well. Don't know, but don't you think United would have knocked on Inter's door if Wesley wanted a big team?

Aye, it's pretty obvious Sneijder is going after the money, otherwise he wouldn't even consider signing for Galatasaray.

[KillerMax]

Guardiola has signed with Bayern starting next season, according to FI.

[Jack Bauer]

That was unexpected, good for them. Will be interesting to see him outside of the Barca comfort zone.

[Fillipo Simone]

Yeah, and especially in Germany.

[kurtsimonw]

Shame it's another easy job though.

[Jack Bauer]

Don't think so. Did you expect him to take a mediocre team? A coach that won as much as he did always gonna take a top team and he will mainly be judged by CL performances, there it certainly won't be easy.

This post has been edited by Jack Bauer: Jan 16 2013, 07:57 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

Indeed. Over the years Bayern turned into a team full of loser mentality. Now that he's on board, the pressure will be raised even more.

[X-Offender]

I agree, Bayern is a real challenge.

[kurtsimonw]

Don't think so. Did you expect him to take a mediocre team? A coach that won as much as he did always gonna take a top team and he will mainly be judged by CL performances, there it certainly won't be easy.

Winning the CL will be a challenge, one he'll fail at too. But he'll still win titles there.

[Rossoneri7]

I agree, Bayern is a real challenge.

+1

[X-Offender]

Winning the CL will be a challenge, one he'll fail at too. But he'll still win titles there.

What are you, a fortuneteller now? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Jack Bauer]

Also, in terms of domestic titles, they have won only 4 from the last 12 (league + cup) so even there it's not a given. Klinsmann is still licking his wounds.

[kurtsimonw]

What are you, a fortuneteller now? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

German clubs just don't seem to have that killer instinct anymore. They played a fairly average team in the CL final in comparison to who they could've played. They were at home. Lead in the 87th minute. Missed a penalty in extra time. Doomed to fail in Europe!

[Fillipo Simone]

It seems like this is the season of beautiful bicycle-kick goals. First Ibra, then Mexes and now Diouf.

Diouf goal

[KillerMax]

I think he tried to catch his own goal on the big screen.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Klopp - I want to be the Mourinho to Guardiola's Bayern

Oops, he tried to be funny for a second. Guess that means he's off Jack and dst's Christmas card list.

[dst]

Yeah cause it's jokes that make me hate the arrogant one.

[Jack Bauer]

Bayern leading 9-2 vs Hamburg (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Pizarro scored 4 goals.

[X-Offender]

Bayern leading 9-2 vs Hamburg (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Pizarro scored 4 goals.

I was just about to post that. Insane.

[acid911]

Insane? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Nothing insaner than Götze to Bayern that has just been confirmed!

[Fillipo Simone]

Yeah, I got shocked too. I really don't see how Bayern can fit him in with so much talented creators already. And I feel really sad for Dortmund. They're loosing their backbone now.

[acid911]

Agree about Dortmund's backbone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) As for Bayern, fitting their new buy is easy. Ribbery seems poised to go to Manchester City, and Robben is all set to join Inter. They may even trim some more fat by the time the summer ends. All this on the cue of a certain Pep, of course.

Oh well, the strong only gets stronger. If Götze had to leave, I don't mind the destination being Bayern.

[CHU-LIP]

Yeah, I got shocked too. I really don't see how Bayern can fit him in with so much talented creators already. And I feel really sad for Dortmund. They're loosing their backbone now.

Schweini, Kroos and Götze as central midfield. Martinez to central defense.

[kurtsimonw]

They're becoming worse than City. It's one thing to spend lots of money, it's another to just buyt out the competition.

Is there any league in football that isn't 100% boring now?

[Fillipo Simone]

Agree about Dortmund's backbone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) As for Bayern, fitting their new buy is easy. Ribbery seems poised to go to Manchester City, and Robben is all set to join Inter. They may even trim some more fat by the time the summer ends. All this on the cue of a certain Pep, of course.

Oh well, the strong only gets stronger. If Götze had to leave, I don't mind the destination being Bayern.

Is this for sure? Because I really don't see Bayern letting go of Ribery so easily.

Schweini, Kroos and Götze as central midfield. Martinez to central defense.

No, that wouldn't work. All teams must have a proper DM these days. Only option would be the striker-less Spain invention.

And besides, Martinez as CB is a waste. He's much more efficient in midfield.

They're becoming worse than City. It's one thing to spend lots of money, it's another to just buyt out the competition.

Is there any league in football that isn't 100% boring now?

But this is a typical Bayern move: like signing Lucio and Ze Roberto, Ballack or Gomez. And naah, they can't sink to City level. Bayern have a truly amazing management with lots of brains and know-how.

Well, this could be it, a chance for Italy to rise again.

[acid911]

Is this for sure? Because I really don't see Bayern letting go of Ribery so easily.

As sure as poised gets these days, man. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) In fact, City are so close to a Cavani deal, and are willing to hand him a 15 million per year deal. This would make him the highest paid footballer in the world. Anyway, City seem poised to mount a challenge for the title next year, and are raring to make some investments. Ribery is on their radar.

And besides, Bayern will have little use of Ribery, say a couple of years down the road. Why not cash in!

Well, this could be it, a chance for Italy to rise again.

No chance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) The egomaniacs that run the Serie A have much better things to do. And besides, the pathetic clubs can't even keep players in the league, and much prefer to hand out foreign players to other clubs in the continent. While a lot of other leagues buy and sell players within, so that the quality does not take a hit.

There are a lot of things that need to be set right for the Italian league to, um, rise again.

[X-Offender]

Goetze is a trequartista, no? But he can easily play on the wings from what I've seen. So:

CF
Götze - Kroos - Müller
Schweini - Martinez

World class.

[acid911]

World class.

Absolutely world class. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) That's the way to run a club, you corrupt idiotas!

[Zed.D]

They're becoming worse than City. It's one thing to spend lots of money, it's another to just buyt out the competition.

+1

Bayern are even worse than Real. I don't care if they can afford these signings, so can Real. but Real get all the **** from everyone for being all Galacticos, while Bayern is a seen as an efficiently run club that deserves respect. my ****!


If there's one club out there I want Milan to emulate, it's Barca. oh boy I wish they give Bayern a good spanking but alas, they don't have a defense and won't stand much chance against FC Hollywood ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif) ). I mean, I really feel bad for Dortmund, it must suck.

[Fillipo Simone]

If you can't see the difference between Real Madrid and Bayern, well...it's best not to comment on Bayern then.

[Fillipo Simone]

Goetze is a trequartista, no? But he can easily play on the wings from what I've seen. So:

CF
Götze - Kroos - Müller
Schweini - Martinez

World class.

Madžukić, no doubt.

[Zed.D]

If you can't see the difference between Real Madrid and Bayern, well...it's best not to comment on Bayern then.

I can't see the difference. please enlighten me.

But I can comment on Bayern. I hate how they spend +20-30 million on every player and they have lots of them now.

[kurtsimonw]

Teams that have youth players that come through generally get away with it. United, Barca and Bayern spent silly money and pay crazy wages - but because they have Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Giggs, Scholes, Xavi, Puyol, etc. etc. they generally get a free pass for some reason.

[Fillipo Simone]

I can't see the difference. please enlighten me.

But I can comment on Bayern. I hate how they spend +20-30 million on every player and they have lots of them now.

Just think about the +20 transfers Bayern made and the ones Real made. Bayern signed Robben, Ribery (if I'm not wrong, it was less then 20m actually), Gomez, Neuer, Martinez and now Götze. All of those players named proved to be great signings and eventually payed off the money invested. On the other side, Madrid inflates the market with buying players like Diarra, Woodgate, Owen, Baptista, etc. etc. who mostly turn out to be failures or the the club decides to reject way too easily (Sneijder, Robben, Cannavaro, Samuel, etc.).

The Bayern management has a clear vision, a plan. Bayern always signed the best Bundesliga players, not just in recent years, but decades ago as well. But almost none of their signings turned out to be a waste of money - meaning that they don't just trow in dollars or euros, but pick carefully what they need.

They make decisive signings and mix them with their own youth products. Müller, Kroos, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Badstuber, Alaba and others are prime examples.

Their management is patient with managers and has a immense concentration of know-how, starting with the coach, up to Sammer, Hoeness, Rummenigge, the occasionally tips of Beckenbauer and so on. It's a real team, made out of superb Bayern legends and shrewd managers.

And by the way, FC Hollywood was a nickname based not on big signings but on the attitude of players like Mario Basler. Nowadays, this is completely passé.

[kurtsimonw]

Their signings often didn't seem "bad" because during the 2000s the Bundesliga was very poor and a pretty mediocre team could walk the league. Whereas even Valencia were making CL Finals in Spain so Madrid've always had to buy big. Spending is spending, it's just that Madrid are cool to hate. Barcelona have been the media darling of recent years, it's now Bayern.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Apr 23 2013, 10:08 PM

[X-Offender]

Just think about the +20 transfers Bayern made and the ones Real made. Bayern signed Robben, Ribery (if I'm not wrong, it was less then 20m actually), Gomez, Neuer, Martinez and now Götze. All of those players named proved to be great signings and eventually payed off the money invested. On the other side, Madrid inflates the market with buying players like Diarra, Woodgate, Owen, Baptista, etc. etc. who mostly turn out to be failures or the the club decides to reject way too easily (Sneijder, Robben, Cannavaro, Samuel, etc.).

The Bayern management has a clear vision, a plan. Bayern always signed the best Bundesliga players, not just in recent years, but decades ago as well. But almost none of their signings turned out to be a waste of money - meaning that they don't just trow in dollars or euros, but pick carefully what they need.

They make decisive signings and mix them with their own youth products. Müller, Kroos, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Badstuber, Alaba and others are prime examples.

Their management is patient with managers and has a immense concentration of know-how, starting with the coach, up to Sammer, Hoeness, Rummenigge, the occasionally tips of Beckenbauer and so on. It's a real team, made out of superb Bayern legends and shrewd managers.

And by the way, FC Hollywood was a nickname based not on big signings but on the attitude of players like Mario Basler. Nowadays, this is completely passé.

+1 million

Zed, I can't believe your comments. Not expecting that from you.

And Kurt, I think you're the least qualified to talk about Bayern, since you're a declared hater of the club. All your opinions are totally biased, and it can be seen from a mile away.

[Fillipo Simone]

Their signings often didn't seem "bad" because during the 2000s the Bundesliga was very poor and a pretty mediocre team could walk the league. Whereas even Valencia were making CL Finals in Spain so Madrid've always had to buy big. Spending is spending, it's just that Madrid are cool to hate. Barcelona have been the media darling of recent years, it's now Bayern.

Funny you mention Valencia, but not Bayer Leverkusen, who made it to the CL final as well. In fact, you're completely wrong when you neglect Bayer, Schalke and especially Borussia Dortmund. A

And which one of Bayerns signings you think seemed "good" because of the "low" competitive level of German football?

[Rossoneri7]

Just think about the +20 transfers Bayern made and the ones Real made. Bayern signed Robben, Ribery (if I'm not wrong, it was less then 20m actually), Gomez, Neuer, Martinez and now Götze. All of those players named proved to be great signings and eventually payed off the money invested. On the other side, Madrid inflates the market with buying players like Diarra, Woodgate, Owen, Baptista, etc. etc. who mostly turn out to be failures or the the club decides to reject way too easily (Sneijder, Robben, Cannavaro, Samuel, etc.).

The Bayern management has a clear vision, a plan. Bayern always signed the best Bundesliga players, not just in recent years, but decades ago as well. But almost none of their signings turned out to be a waste of money - meaning that they don't just trow in dollars or euros, but pick carefully what they need.

They make decisive signings and mix them with their own youth products. Müller, Kroos, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Badstuber, Alaba and others are prime examples.

Their management is patient with managers and has a immense concentration of know-how, starting with the coach, up to Sammer, Hoeness, Rummenigge, the occasionally tips of Beckenbauer and so on. It's a real team, made out of superb Bayern legends and shrewd managers.

And by the way, FC Hollywood was a nickname based not on big signings but on the attitude of players like Mario Basler. Nowadays, this is completely passé.

Perfect post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

Their signings often didn't seem "bad" because during the 2000s the Bundesliga was very poor and a pretty mediocre team could walk the league. Whereas even Valencia were making CL Finals in Spain so Madrid've always had to buy big. Spending is spending, it's just that Madrid are cool to hate. Barcelona have been the media darling of recent years, it's now Bayern.

Not really, Bayern have always been a strong opposition, just depends on what your best flavor of football is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

2001-2011 they made it to the SFs once, hardly a European powerhouse. Villarreal, Arsenal, Porto, Monaco, etc managed it. Just that they could still easily win the title in a weak league.

[Fillipo Simone]

2001-2011 they made it to the SFs once, hardly a European powerhouse. Villarreal, Arsenal, Porto, Monaco, etc managed it. Just that they could still easily win the title in a weak league.

Did I say European powerhouse? I just mentioned you neglected their appearance in the final.

But you did not say who would be a good example for a player signed for much money but was made look good by the supposed weak German league?

[Zed.D]

Teams that have youth players that come through generally get away with it. United, Barca and Bayern spent silly money and pay crazy wages - but because they have Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Giggs, Scholes, Xavi, Puyol, etc. etc. they generally get a free pass for some reason.

Bayern youth players: Lahm. Muller. Kroos. Alaba. Schweinsteiger...

Barcelona's: Valdes. Pique. Puyol. Xavi. Iniesta. Messi. Busquets. Pedro...

How can these two teams be mentioned in the same sentence in that regard is beyond me. I admire Barca's model. the backbone of their team is from their youth players, and they buy some good and inevitably expensive players to fill the remaining positions. I'd hate Milan to be operated like Bayern not matter how "efficient" it is. I'd rather the Barca, Ajax, etc. model.

Just think about the +20 transfers Bayern made and the ones Real made. Bayern signed Robben, Ribery (if I'm not wrong, it was less then 20m actually), Gomez, Neuer, Martinez and now Götze. All of those players named proved to be great signings and eventually payed off the money invested. On the other side, Madrid inflates the market with buying players like Diarra, Woodgate, Owen, Baptista, etc. etc. who mostly turn out to be failures or the the club decides to reject way too easily (Sneijder, Robben, Cannavaro, Samuel, etc.).

The Bayern management has a clear vision, a plan. Bayern always signed the best Bundesliga players, not just in recent years, but decades ago as well. But almost none of their signings turned out to be a waste of money - meaning that they don't just trow in dollars or euros, but pick carefully what they need.

They make decisive signings and mix them with their own youth products. Müller, Kroos, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Badstuber, Alaba and others are prime examples.

Their management is patient with managers and has a immense concentration of know-how, starting with the coach, up to Sammer, Hoeness, Rummenigge, the occasionally tips of Beckenbauer and so on. It's a real team, made out of superb Bayern legends and shrewd managers.

And by the way, FC Hollywood was a nickname based not on big signings but on the attitude of players like Mario Basler. Nowadays, this is completely passé.

I'm not disagreeing with this, that the Bayern management choose their signings carefully and don't waste money. did you get my point at all? I said [to quote kurt] they're buying out the competition. they're getting the best players in the league and I guess with Pep going there they'll start signing some more from abroad too.

Zed, I can't believe your comments. Not expecting that from you.

Dude, no offense but gtfo with your condescending "didn't expect that from you Zed" bullshit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) people have different opinions about things, learn to accept that.

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Apr 24 2013, 10:58 AM

[Fillipo Simone]

I think this discussion now ended. We agree to disagree, move on.

[kurtsimonw]

Bayern youth players: Lahm. Muller. Kroos. Alaba. Schweinsteiger...

Barcelona's: Valdes. Pique. Puyol. Xavi. Iniesta. Messi. Busquets. Pedro...

I just find talking about youth system half the time is just overlooked. Yeah it sounds nice when you have players coming through. But what about players like Messi and Iniesta? Is it really that impressive that they just took an already highly rated player from a different club? Does Pique technically count as a Man U product because his 1st professional appearance was with them? I think it's great if you sign a kid not affiliated to a club and bring them all the way through, but when you take them off another team, it's just using your name/£££ to your advantage mostly.

[X-Offender]

Dude, no offense but gtfo with your condescending "didn't expect that from you Zed" bullshit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) people have different opinions about things, learn to accept that.

Condescending? If I say that is because I rate your posts very highly, and you saying stuff like that is just... Oh well...

[Zed.D]

Condescending? If I say that is because I rate your posts very highly, and you saying stuff like that is just... Oh well...

Is just... having a a different opinion than you. but thanks that you value my posts, the feeling's mutual (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[acid911]

Well, Zed.D, if you think what Bayern do is bad, wait till you hear when they sign up Lewandowski. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Be interesting hearing your thoughts on them when this becomes official. I'd hate to be Pep Guardiola right about now, particularly if Bayern manages to win the CL, or the treble.

[Zed.D]

Hate to be Guardiola? I was thinking this guy couldn't be more lucky. he's about to start working with the strongest Bayern in years, and more exciting players are on their way to there. that must be every coach's wet dream.

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Apr 24 2013, 10:08 PM

[acid911]

Hate to be Guardiola? I was thinking this guy couldn't be more lucky. he's about to start working with the strongest Bayern in years, and more exciting players are on their way to there. that must be every coach's wet dream.

Yup, I stand by my earlier claim. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Particularly if Bayern win the treble, and there will not be that much room for him to measure up. Kind of like what Mourinho did with Inter, and then that excuse-of-a-coach (Benítez) just wrecked the train up so much that it wasn't even funny. There is a chance of this happening at Bayern.

Doubly so if Pep tries to implement his shtiky taka philosophy and Bayern players don't respond. It could get out of hands real fast you know. The current Bayern team plays set football and good football. It's all about whether the current Bayern players adjust outside of their comfort zone. If not, Pep's ego is going to get in the way. Kaabloi!

But anyway, if Bayern wins the treble this year, the Pep signing will be a slap on the face of the management.

[acid911]

Besides, Lahm, Schweinsteiger and other older players are going to eat Pep up if they win the CL this year. And we all know just how good of a man manager Pep is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good guy maybe, but pretty bad when it comes to handling personalities. Barcelona was another thing, but I, for one, will be watching his Bayern with eyes wide open.

[Fillipo Simone]

Hate to be Guardiola? I was thinking this guy couldn't be more lucky. he's about to start working with the strongest Bayern in years, and more exciting players are on their way to there. that must be every coach's wet dream.

Then thing is, he'll have a very hard job now. He can't surpass Heynckes success technically, but he has a million chances to fail.

[X-Offender]

Apparently Lewandowski was very, very close to signing for Genoa in 2010 from Lech Poznan. He even passed the medicals, but then everything broke down.

Link

Such a shame, because it would have meant he'd be playing for us now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Zed.D]

By the way, Lewandowski did look like a poor finisher against Malaga over the two legs. he missed some big chances. last night he was immense (especially the 3rd goal), but I'm still not sure if he's a brilliant finisher a la Falcao or something. he's a bit suspect.

Then thing is, he'll have a very hard job now. He can't surpass Heynckes success technically, but he has a million chances to fail.

What does it mean that he can't "surpass Heynckes success technically"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)


They guy won a shitload of trophies with Barca in the span of a few years, he could do it at Bayern too because that team has the room to do it. and another thing is, Bayern haven't won the CL yet. who knows what will happen...

[kurtsimonw]

Well it's hard to surpass in the sense that (if Bayern win the CL) they've won everything and in a dominating fashion. What's he going to do, win 4-0 in the Final instead of the SF and win every game in the Bundesliga?

[dst]

Why would he have to surpass anything, wouldn't repeating be enough? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Why would he have to surpass anything, wouldn't repeating be enough? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I think it's the way people see it.

Do worse - failure
Repeat - It's because it was the previous coaches team

The above isn't necessarily true, but it's how some see it.