[Portman]

(IMG:http://www.evenements-et-voyages.com/evenements_fichiers/football_san_siro_milan_ac.jpg)

Média de assistências nos estádios 2007/2008:

1. Real Madrid CF (Espanha) - 76.200
2. Manchester United (Inglaterra) - 75.690
3. Borussia Dortmund (Alemanha) - 72.500
4. Bayern Munique (Alemanha) - 69.000
5. FC Barcelona (Espanha) - 67.560
6. Schalke 04 (Alemanha) - 61.275
7. Arsenal FC (Inglaterra) - 60.070
8. Celtic FC (Escócia) - 56.675
9. AC Milan (Itália) 56.640
10. Hamburguer SV (Alemanha) - 55.365
11. Olympique Marseille - (França) - 52.600
12. Newcastle United (Inglaterra) - 51.324
13. Internazionale (Itália) - 51.210
14. VfB Stuttgart (Alemanha) - 50.445
15. FC Rangers (Escócia) - 49.145
16. Ajax (Holanda) - 49.125
17. Eintracht Frankfurt (Alemanha) - 48.325
18. Hertha BSC (Alemanha) - 45.440
19. Atlético de Madrid (Espanha) - 45.255
20. Feyenoord (Holanda) - 44.620
21. FC Koln (Alemanha) - 43.740
22. Liverpool FC (Inglaterra) - 43.534
23. FC Nuremberg (Alemanha) - 43.450
24. Sunderland (Inglaterra) - 43.343
25. Manchester City (Inglaterra) - 42.126
26. Chelsea FC (Inglaterra) - 41.396
27. SS Napoli (Itália) - 40.780
28. Valencia (Espanha) - 40.710
29. Borussia Munchengladbach (Alemanha) - 40.250
30. Hannover 96 (Alemanha) - 40.235
31. Werder Bremen (Alemanha) - 40.310
32. Aston Villa (Inglaterra) - 39.870
33. FC Sevilla (Espanha) - 39.555
34. SL Benfica (Portugal) - 38.709
35. FC Porto (Portugal) - 38.630
36. Real Bétis (Espanha) - 37.420
37. Olympique Lyonnais (França) - 37.295
38. AS Roma (Itália) - 37.275
39. Everton FC (Inglaterra) - 36.955
40. Paris Saint-Germain (França) - 36.945
41. Athletic Bilbao (Espanha) - 36.235
42. Tottenham Hotspurs (Inglaterra) - 35.966
43. Munique 1860 (Alemanha) - 35.070
44. RC Lens (França) - 34.655
45. West Ham United (Inglaterra) - 34.600
46. PSV Eindhoven (Holanda) - 33.510
47. Fiorentina (Itália) - 31.385
48. Derby County (Inglaterra) - 30.870
49. Sporting CP (Portugal) - 30.721
50. Real Zaragoza (Espanha) - 30.710

Source: Football Finance - http://www.futebolfinance.com/o-numero-de-...opeus-20072008/

Above there's the average of the attendances @ last season in Europe. And as we can see, we're the only italian club in the top 10 though we had the worst season of the last 7-8 years.

[acid911]

Jolly good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Best in Italy, but still can't believe Celtic fans are more passionate about their team!

[Warchant]

lol, almost 5500 more than inter. and they won the freakin league!

hilarious

[Zed.D]

No Juve? lol... I don't care if they say their fans are spread throughout Italy, they must have at least an average of 30,000 fans. they're Italy's most successful team ffs.

Real Madrid... at the top of every damn list! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[dst]

Real Madrid... at the top of every damn list! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Surely top in the Arrogant C__ts list! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Habitant]

Surely top in the Arrogant C__ts list! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

my man

[Habitant]

No Juve? lol... I don't care if they say their fans are spread throughout Italy, they must have at least an average of 30,000 fans. they're Italy's most successful team ffs.

Real Madrid... at the top of every damn list! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

it's simple 95% of their fans are glory hunters. even worse than united IMO. they're constantly bitching even when they win the league, they want to win and play the most attractive football, basically they want everything. they have the best attendace, i'll give em that, but if they werent as successful they wouldnt have as good as attendance as us!

@dortmund (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

This post has been edited by Habitant: Oct 15 2008, 07:42 PM

[armiss]

this doesnt relate to topic exactly but Gazzetta said that Moratti is seriuos about a new arena , project will be finalised in 2012 and they will be in their new stadium in 2012-2013 season , i am very happy about this .San siro would be Milan home. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pirate1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/filmtimesmiley.gif)

This post has been edited by armiss: Oct 15 2008, 08:36 PM

[dst]

this doesnt relate to topic exactly but Gazzetta said that Moratti is seriuos about a new arena , project will be finalised in 2012 and they will be in their new stadium in 2012-2013 season , i am very happy about this .San siro would be Milan home. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pirate1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/filmtimesmiley.gif)

That will be just great! I hope it will come true!!! YES! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Zed.D]

Surely top in the Arrogant C__ts list! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Nope, that spot belongs to Man U. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

it's simple 95% of their fans are glory hunters. even worse than united IMO. they're constantly bitching even when they win the league, they want to win and play the most attractive football, basically they want everything. they have the best attendace, i'll give em that, but if they werent as successful they wouldnt have as good as attendance as us!

What's wrong with being glory hunters? I mean, football is all about wanting to win! I don't think Madrid's fans are pretending to be anything particular when they come to watch their team's games every week. there's no way we can tell if Madrid weren't as successful their fans wouldn't have came to the Stadium. in Spain people actually go to (and fill) the stadiums. you rarely see empty seats!

I suffer watching those empty stands every time we have a game against teams other than Inter/Juve!! San Siro is too big for us. it's too big for Inter as well. that's why they're doing the right thing and planing on moving to a new stadium. Juve, too, will be playing in a new stadium in 2011-2012 (I think). only us will remain in San Siro, which I admit I don't enjoy watching it when it's half empty. when it's full it looks great, no doubt. but that's our problem: fans don't fill San Siro in every game.

This post has been edited by zdrossoneri: Oct 15 2008, 10:19 PM

[dst]

Nope, that spot belongs to Man U. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Not even close. Your beloved white who__s have rightfully won the right to be the kings, nay, queens, in that aspect!

What's wrong with being glory hunters? I mean, football is all about wanting to win!

You're still here despite Milan having a nightmare season in the last one... a glory hunter wouldn't that's what's wrong with it...

it's too big for Inter as well. that's why they're doing the right thing and planing on moving to a new stadium.

You really think Inter are going to build a stadium that can hold less than 65,000 people? There's zero chance for that to happen.

[Il Capitano]

The German teams got impressive attendance.

We had a crappy year and we still had good attendance.

Lazio,Roma,Juventus and Fiorentina.. what a disgrace.

Bravo Napoli.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Not even close. Your beloved white who__s have rightfully won the right to be the kings, nay, queens, in that aspect!

Exactly. The people who are most arrogant about United are the people who have never been to Old Trafford. A lot actually have respect. I seem to remember going when they played Exeter in the FA Cup a few years ago and 90% of the United fans stayed to applaud Exeter's players off the pitch even though United drew 0-0. I don't think I'd expect too many sets of fans to do that...

[Habitant]

Nope, that spot belongs to Man U. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)



What's wrong with being glory hunters? I mean, football is all about wanting to win! I don't think Madrid's fans are pretending to be anything particular when they come to watch their team's games every week. there's no way we can tell if Madrid weren't as successful their fans wouldn't have came to the Stadium. in Spain people actually go to (and fill) the stadiums. you rarely see empty seats!

I suffer watching those empty stands every time we have a game against teams other than Inter/Juve!! San Siro is too big for us. it's too big for Inter as well. that's why they're doing the right thing and planing on moving to a new stadium. Juve, too, will be playing in a new stadium in 2011-2012 (I think). only us will remain in San Siro, which I admit I don't enjoy watching it when it's half empty. when it's full it looks great, no doubt. but that's our problem: fans don't fill San Siro in every game.

theres a diffenrence between wanting you team to be successful(nothig wrong with that) and demanding it, and then theres real fans (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) . our management may act stupid at times but theres is just classless, they bully teams into selling their players, bash and talk about selling their own players in the media. and gllory hunters onlly hang around because of the trophies they've won. most of the real fans i've talked are tools, they barely know anything about their team but they walk around with this ronaldo and beckham jerseys, we all know the galacticos era. then theres players like sneijder,ramos, ruud,guti who are complete d1cks. just watch if they dont win la liga all i'm gonna hear is bitching and how the team needs to be rebuilt, and we dont have enough quality players, we need to buy kaka, ronaldo and vidic, etc

this attendance problem has only been around since calciopoli, before that we had a good attendance in the mid 70k

[Jack Sparrow]

No big deal. It's always been the story. We used to fill stadiums when we were in Serie B. While Inter couldn't in Serie A. Same story.

Moving to a new stadium? I would prefer us to purchase outright the San Siro. But then, that is impossible, at least we could really ramp it up to be on par with the Ashburton Groves and the Olympic Stadions etc.

Moving out of the San Siro would be awkward. And as Arsenal are proving over the past few seasons, very very financially stressful. Silvio or no Silvio. And let's not forget this is in the cash rich EPL.

[Zed.D]

You're still here despite Milan having a nightmare season in the last one... a glory hunter wouldn't that's what's wrong with it...

Real went "4 years" without winning a single trophy and still their fans went to the Bernabeu. how can you justify that? you hate Madrid, fine, but don't tell me their fans are a bunch of hypocrite glory-hunters who leave their team alone when it's going through a tough time, because they are not and they don't. Santiago Bernabeu has always been like this.

You really think Inter are going to build a stadium that can hold less than 65,000 people? There's zero chance for that to happen.

I don't get what you mean! I think a 60,000 or 65,000 seated stadium is enough for both Milan and Inter. Juve's new stadium is going to be 40,000 seated!!

Exactly. The people who are most arrogant about United are the people who have never been to Old Trafford. A lot actually have respect. I seem to remember going when they played Exeter in the FA Cup a few years ago and 90% of the United fans stayed to applaud Exeter's players off the pitch even though United drew 0-0. I don't think I'd expect too many sets of fans to do that...

I'm talking about their players and staff not their fans. guys like Ronaldo, Rooney, Vidic, Tevez ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif) ), Ferdinand, Carrick, etc. they are arrogant in my eyes.

theres a diffenrence between wanting you team to be successful(nothig wrong with that) and demanding it, and then theres real fans (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) . our management may act stupid at times but theres is just classless, they bully teams into selling their players, bash and talk about selling their own players in the media. and gllory hunters onlly hang around because of the trophies they've won. most of the real fans i've talked are tools, they barely know anything about their team but they walk around with this ronaldo and beckham jerseys, we all know the galacticos era. then theres players like sneijder,ramos, ruud,guti who are complete d1cks. just watch if they dont win la liga all i'm gonna hear is bitching and how the team needs to be rebuilt, and we dont have enough quality players, we need to buy kaka, ronaldo and vidic, etc

Like I explained above, Real went through 4 trophy-less years and their fans still came to the stadium. I can't accept your logic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

this attendance problem has only been around since calciopoli, before that we had a good attendance in the mid 70k

According to this, which I think is accurate, The last time we had an average of +70k was the 1992-93 season. I don't remember those days... ever since I remember watching Milan games, San Siro has always been half empty except for a couple of big league and CL games. I don't think it's possible for Italian teams to win the fans back to the stadiums like 80's and early 90's...

[Jack Sparrow]

Well you can't really say the people who attend the stadiums are just the only fan Madrid have got.

How do you explain the world wide sales of the Madrid franchise? All Bernabeu fans? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Look mate, I can tell you numerous instance of galatico fans (Zidane is God,Figo is the best, Ronaldo is a legend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) who two years ago declared themselves as lifelong Barca supporters. Can you even imagine that? A madrid fan supporting Barca or even wishing them well in football? These guys don't even know what I mean when I say Catalonia...

These zeddie are the glory hunters.

Perhaps Pana overstated when he said they're all glory hunters. But I think if you count percentages of 'fans'. Real, ManU, Chelsea and Barca have the highest percentage of glory hunters in them (which might be small say, 10-40%, but is still large compared to other clubs)

Ask them who di Stefano is? Or who was Robson? Or about how well they did under Vialli? Or if they remember Cruyff's contribution...and they'll just stare back.

How can you call yourself a fan, if all you care about is the present with no idea about the past?

I'm a Milan fan, and I'm proud of our CLs and scudettos, but that doesn't mean you remain unaware of the seasons spent in Serie B, and the wilderness of the mid 90s.

However I think I'm forgiven if I can't tell you in details about Gre-No-Li. But hey, at least I know them and what they did.

This post has been edited by Jack Sparrow: Oct 16 2008, 10:06 AM

[Zed.D]

Have you asked those kind of question from the 80,000 Bernabeu crowd? I'm sorry, but what you guys say that 'go and ask X & Y' sounds very very unrealistic and *ahem* silly to me.

Look mate, I can tell you numerous instance of galatico fans (Zidane is God,Figo is the best, Ronaldo is a legend rolleyes.gif) who two years ago declared themselves as lifelong Barca supporters. Can you even imagine that? A madrid fan supporting Barca or even wishing them well in football? These guys don't even know what I mean when I say Catalonia...

Am I supposed to believe this?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Perhaps Pana overstated when he said they're all glory hunters. But I think if you count percentages of 'fans'. Real, ManU, Chelsea and Barca have the highest percentage of glory hunters in them (which might be small say, 10-40%, but is still large compared to other clubs)

Again, am I supposed to believe this? you're just saying these things but have no proof to back them with. just HOW do you know that 10-40% of Madrid, Barca, Chelsea and Man U fans are glory hunters? HOW??!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You know, it's funny to call teams like Madrid and Barca's fans glory hunters when they're always beside their team even if they spent four season without winning a single trophy, but say Milan fans (those who live in Milan/ Lombardy/ Italy) are not, when a few seasons of mediocrity in the league + Calciopoli in the league was enough to for them to not attend the matches like they did when the team was at its good days...

[Jack Sparrow]

Ok..fine..don't ask X or Y or Z or whoever.

Just ask yourself, how suddenly in the Ronaldinho era, the number of Barca shirts shot up. Or how suddenly Chelsea are the second/third most supported EPL team from being nowhere 10 years ago.

What happened? All those 'eternally true' fans suddenly decided to stand up and be counted. Face it Chelsea started winning stuff, people noticed, and people who had never ever followed football, but now couldn't ignore it, needed a team to support. And bada boom, bada bing they choose the most winning team.

It started with Beckham mania. And it continued with Liverpool's Istanbul. If you ever went to goal.com's India site...and heard the fan answers. The question is 'Since when do you support Liverpool?' 'Oh..when I saw Istanbul, I was really amazed...blahblahblah'. Benitez is the greatest manager ever. Torres the best forward ever. You read the comments too.

As for 10-40%.

Considering that there might be millions of fans, that does consitute a very small number. It's not the same as saying 3 out of 4 people you meet are glory hunters.

Frankly speaking, everyone who's not a native of the club's city, starts out as glory hunters. Maybe later they develop a genuine interest in the club. But there is no hiding that keeping Madrid's huge worldwide fanbase, and the relatively low age of the fans, it's a glory hunting phenomenon.

As for your 4 year argument...those 4 years were always a case of almost there. It was never a 4 years of darkness. Let Madrid go through a Leeds united or a Juventus like period and we'll talk about 'true fans'. 5 will get you 20, you'd see a sudden sudden fall.

If I could or knew how, I'd draw up figures of how much Juventus shirt sales have fallen in India. But it's enough to walk on the streets to know that. The numbers show up in front of your eyes.

[Zed.D]

Ok..fine..don't ask X or Y or Z or whoever.

Just ask yourself, how suddenly in the Ronaldinho era, the number of Barca shirts shot up. Or how suddenly Chelsea are the second/third most supported EPL team from being nowhere 10 years ago.

What happened? All those 'eternally true' fans suddenly decided to stand up and be counted. Face it Chelsea started winning stuff, people noticed, and people who had never ever followed football, but now couldn't ignore it, needed a team to support. And bada boom, bada bing they choose the most winning team.

It started with Beckham mania. And it continued with Liverpool's Istanbul. If you ever went to goal.com's India site...and heard the fan answers. The question is 'Since when do you support Liverpool?' 'Oh..when I saw Istanbul, I was really amazed...blahblahblah'. Benitez is the greatest manager ever. Torres the best forward ever. You read the comments too.

As for 10-40%.

Considering that there might be millions of fans, that does consitute a very small number. It's not the same as saying 3 out of 4 people you meet are glory hunters.

Frankly speaking, everyone who's not a native of the club's city, starts out as glory hunters. Maybe later they develop a genuine interest in the club. But there is no hiding that keeping Madrid's huge worldwide fanbase, and the relatively low age of the fans, it's a glory hunting phenomenon.

As for your 4 year argument...those 4 years were always a case of almost there. It was never a 4 years of darkness. Let Madrid go through a Leeds united or a Juventus like period and we'll talk about 'true fans'. 5 will get you 20, you'd see a sudden sudden fall.

If I could or knew how, I'd draw up figures of how much Juventus shirt sales have fallen in India. But it's enough to walk on the streets to know that. The numbers show up in front of your eyes.

Don't ever compare Chelsea with Barca and Madrid. I'm not even talking about Chelsea. I'm talking about Madrid and Barca, even though I dislike the latter. in Ronaldinho era the shirt sales increased? so what? that's not the point. are you trying to sidetrack from the topic? we're talking about attendance and Madrid have always had an almost full stadium in their home games as far as I remember. why do you keep changing the topic to Galacticos era or Chelsea comparisons or Liverpool's Istanbul, etc.?? these things have nothing to do with the fact that Madrid have the highest home game attendance in Europe.

Look, we're talking very generally. I don't care what people's comments on goal.com India or whatever are and I'm certainly not going to change my mind and what I see every time Madrid have a home game by some people's comments either. I've watched Real Channel probably more than any of you guys and have seen countless interviews with the fans before Madrid's home games, outside the stadium. if I'm ever gonna judge anything based on what people say, I'll go with these people not with a bunch of Madrid haters' opinions.

4 trophy-less seasons is definitely a dark period for a winning team like Madrid. and don't hold your breath for the day Madrid go through a Leeds or Juventus because they're neither financially unstable [and will never be] nor a bunch of cheaters. they sure have some dirty policies. but it's just that, dirty. not illegal nor cheating on others.

And this bit, you did not answer:

You know, it's funny to call teams like Madrid and Barca's fans glory hunters when they're always beside their team even if they spent four season without winning a single trophy, but say Milan fans (those who live in Milan/ Lombardy/ Italy) are not, when a few seasons of mediocrity in the league + Calciopoli in the league was enough to for them to not attend the matches like they did when the team was at its good days...

Milan's average home attendance dropped almost 13,000 the season after the Calciopoli. had this happened to Madrid, wouldn't you have said that 13,000 people are a bunch of 'glory hunters' who left their team alone because they knew the team would have no chance of winning the league title with an 8-point deduction?? of course you would have said that...

[Habitant]

Don't ever compare Chelsea with Barca and Madrid. I'm not even talking about Chelsea. I'm talking about Madrid and Barca, even though I dislike the latter. in Ronaldinho era the shirt sales increased? so what? that's not the point. are you trying to sidetrack from the topic? we're talking about attendance and Madrid have always had an almost full stadium in their home games as far as I remember. why do you keep changing the topic to Galacticos era or Chelsea comparisons or Liverpool's Istanbul, etc.?? these things have nothing to do with the fact that Madrid have the highest home game attendance in Europe.

Look, we're talking very generally. I don't care what people's comments on goal.com India or whatever are and I'm certainly not going to change my mind and what I see every time Madrid have a home game by some people's comments either. I've watched Real Channel probably more than any of you guys and have seen countless interviews with the fans before Madrid's home games, outside the stadium. if I'm ever gonna judge anything based on what people say, I'll go with these people not with a bunch of Madrid haters' opinions.

4 trophy-less seasons is definitely a dark period for a winning team like Madrid. and don't hold your breath for the day Madrid go through a Leeds or Juventus because they're neither financially unstable [and will never be] nor a bunch of cheaters. they sure have some dirty policies. but it's just that, dirty. not illegal nor cheating on others.

And this bit, you did not answer:




Milan's average home attendance dropped almost 13,000 the season after the Calciopoli. had this happened to Madrid, wouldn't you have said that 13,000 people are a bunch of 'glory hunters' who left their team alone because they knew the team would have no chance of winning the league title with an 8-point deduction?? of course you would have said that...

and how have you come to this conclusion? especially for club thats had it's hands in the royal family and goverments pocket (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[KillerMax]

Don't ever compare Chelsea with Barca and Madrid. I'm not even talking about Chelsea. I'm talking about Madrid and Barca, even though I dislike the latter. in Ronaldinho era the shirt sales increased? so what? that's not the point. are you trying to sidetrack from the topic? we're talking about attendance and Madrid have always had an almost full stadium in their home games as far as I remember. why do you keep changing the topic to Galacticos era or Chelsea comparisons or Liverpool's Istanbul, etc.?? these things have nothing to do with the fact that Madrid have the highest home game attendance in Europe.

Look, we're talking very generally. I don't care what people's comments on goal.com India or whatever are and I'm certainly not going to change my mind and what I see every time Madrid have a home game by some people's comments either. I've watched Real Channel probably more than any of you guys and have seen countless interviews with the fans before Madrid's home games, outside the stadium. if I'm ever gonna judge anything based on what people say, I'll go with these people not with a bunch of Madrid haters' opinions.

4 trophy-less seasons is definitely a dark period for a winning team like Madrid. and don't hold your breath for the day Madrid go through a Leeds or Juventus because they're neither financially unstable [and will never be] nor a bunch of cheaters. they sure have some dirty policies. but it's just that, dirty. not illegal nor cheating on others.

And this bit, you did not answer:




Milan's average home attendance dropped almost 13,000 the season after the Calciopoli. had this happened to Madrid, wouldn't you have said that 13,000 people are a bunch of 'glory hunters' who left their team alone because they knew the team would have no chance of winning the league title with an 8-point deduction?? of course you would have said that...

Except for the bold part, agree with everything else. Everyone can rationalize this subject whichever way they want, but the fact is, Real Madrid fans have been more attentive than our fans.

It's also worth mentioning that Spain as a country is doing much much better than Italy. Spain is financially thriving while Italy is going down the drain. That, for sure, does affect season ticket holders and attendance in general.

[dst]

Ah finally some discussion here, it's been dead silent for a week!

Moving to a new stadium? I would prefer us to purchase outright the San Siro. But then, that is impossible, at least we could really ramp it up to be on par with the Ashburton Groves and the Olympic Stadions etc.

I don't think it's impossible. There is a way. They will accept to sell it if Milan guarantee that they will renew it... (this is only a guess but it has happened here)

Real went "4 years" without winning a single trophy and still their fans went to the Bernabeu. how can you justify that? you hate Madrid, fine, but don't tell me their fans are a bunch of hypocrite glory-hunters who leave their team alone when it's going through a tough time, because they are not and they don't. Santiago Bernabeu has always been like this.

First of all, I don't hate Madrid. In fact I respect them for they are clearly the most successful team in Europe. But I do loather their attitude, they are as arrogant as it gets. Clearly (again) the most arrogant set of fans I know of!
Secondly, where did I say that Real fans are glory hunters? You asked what's wrong with being a glory hunter (I still can't believe you respect those people) and I replied on that, I never connected it with Real's fans...

But I think if you count percentages of 'fans'. Real, ManU, Chelsea and Barca have the highest percentage of glory hunters in them (which might be small say, 10-40%, but is still large compared to other clubs)

Of course they have the highest percentage of glory hunters but that is because they are the most popular teams in Europe and hype brings you fake fans. Can you even imagine how many of those Milan acquired just because of Ronaldinho? I'm sure there are a lot of them...

It's also worth mentioning that Spain as a country is doing much much better than Italy. Spain is financially thriving while Italy is going down the drain. That, for sure, does affect season ticket holders and attendance in general.

That and the fact that calcio d'Italia went through a huge crisis just two years ago are grave factors...

This post has been edited by dst: Oct 16 2008, 09:14 PM

[Portman]

The arrogance of United fans is by far superior to the Real ones.

They're not only arrogant but also stupid and dumb. The fact that they actually believe they're the biggest club in the world makes them look like muppets every single day of the week.

LOVE FOOTBALL, HATE M UNITED. Hope those feckers get fecked finantially.

[Jack Sparrow]

^^


Heh heh...one of these days, I should write a thesis on the 'Elegance of Post Prose in the works of Portikins'. Brevity truly is the soul of wit.

Don't ever compare Chelsea with Barca and Madrid. I'm not even talking about Chelsea. I'm talking about Madrid and Barca, even though I dislike the latter. in Ronaldinho era the shirt sales increased? so what? that's not the point. are you trying to sidetrack from the topic? we're talking about attendance and Madrid have always had an almost full stadium in their home games as far as I remember. why do you keep changing the topic to Galacticos era or Chelsea comparisons or Liverpool's Istanbul, etc.?? these things have nothing to do with the fact that Madrid have the highest home game attendance in Europe.

@zeddie: Read your post. I made a mistake. I wasn't talking about attendance. Since I think it's kinda unfair to say, only people with season tickets are fans. But if you mean purely attendance, then I don't have a lot to argue with. Since the two big Madrid clubs are virtually part of the Madrid city landscape.

As for Italy and attendance...I would put it down to three things:

1. The economic conditions simply made it cheaper to sit at home and watch the game on tv as much as possible and buy tickets to the big games rather than season tickets.
2. The calciopoli crisis. Case in Point: My buddy R7, had gone to Milan to watch some match from the first season post calciopoli. He'd been picked up from the airport in a taxi and the driver was an Interista who spoke English. The man said, until now he'd always purchased season tickets, but he isn't gonna do it for that season, coz of the scandal. And this was an Interista, a guy who had every reason to be happy about calciopoli. Italians love their clubs, but they love their football more I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
3. The footballing violence. Spanish and English and German stadiums are much safer than Italian ones. They also have far higher attendances. Coincidence?
4. Stadium facilities. From what Tennie and R7 have told me, even though we love the atmosphere of the San Siro, the fact is it doesn't hold a candle to the Bayern Munich or the Emiraes stadium. Why would people pay large sums to sit in 'sub-standard' arenas. Remember we don't own the San Siro. Yet we had to do all the work installing turn stiles and CCTV etc.

P.S: Perhaps the lackadaisical transfer policy might have something to do with it. Since our season tickets did show an upturn since this season. But I do believe that the above four reasons are more relevant.

This post has been edited by Jack Sparrow: Oct 17 2008, 08:30 AM

[speedemon]

This is freakin BS AC MILAN RULES!!! The only reason why Real madrid are on top is because of how much money they got...rich turd mutha fathers...Milan is the most successful team in the last 20 years and it has way more PASSIONATE FANS and that is a fact because most people who support real, man u, or even poop heads inter dont support the team but its players...see the difference so "F" this list and FORZA MILAN!!!!!!!

My language is sencored (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by speedemon: Oct 25 2008, 09:40 PM

[KillerMax]

This is fucken bull **** AC MILAN RULES!!! The only reason why Real madrid are on top is because of how much money they got...rich *** mutha fuckas...Milan is the most successful team in the last 20 years and it has way more PASSIONATE FANS and that is a fact because most people who support real, man u, or even **** heads inter dont support the team but its players...see the difference so **** this list and FORZA MILAN!!!!!!!

I like your subtle way of thinking! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Habitant]

This is freakin BS AC MILAN RULES!!! The only reason why Real madrid are on top is because of how much money they got...rich turd mutha fathers...Milan is the most successful team in the last 20 years and it has way more PASSIONATE FANS and that is a fact because most people who support real, man u, or even poop heads inter dont support the team but its players...see the difference so "F" this list and FORZA MILAN!!!!!!!

My language is sencored (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I like

(IMG:http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/borat-02.jpg)

[Habitant]

Like I explained above, Real went through 4 trophy-less years and their fans still came to the stadium. I can't accept your logic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

btw if they actually stopped going to game because of 4 seasons without silverware then they would be the biggest muppets in the world and no club in the world has that right. (in our case what pissed the fans off the most was the lack of effort from the management, also calciopoli must be considered. while real management have always blown money every summer so they really have nothing to complain about) not only that but there also ungrateful lil brats, who else would ***** after winning league title because they dint play attacking or beautiful football (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) thats just pathetic. theres teams that havent won anything in decades yet they have won anything, so what real have had more success then others does that suddenly give them the right to complain when they arent? it just further shows the support they receive is entirely down to their success, take it away and they have nothing.

This post has been edited by Habitant: Oct 26 2008, 03:11 AM

[Zed.D]

btw if they actually stopped going to game because of 4 seasons without silverware then they would be the biggest muppets in the world and no club in the world has that right.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

They DID go to the stadium in those 4 years as long as I remember. (IMG:http://www.pic4ever.com/images/352nmsp.gif)

What's next?

"If they actually kept going to the game in those 4 seasons without silverware then they were the biggest glory hunters ever"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Habitant]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

They DID go to the stadium in those 4 years as long as I remember. (IMG:http://www.pic4ever.com/images/352nmsp.gif)

What's next?

"If they actually kept going to the game in those 4 seasons without silverware then they were the biggest glory hunters ever"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

yes but what your doing is rationalizing that they would have the right to see their attendance drop, if that was to happen.

the bitching and harping that went one during those 4 years was worse then any set of fans,hell even worse than united when they went through through drought before the won the prem in 06/07. basically every player they had was shite, i would even hear the lot of them call for raul to retire and move since he wasnt as effective, now he's back to being god (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) . even now as soon as a result doesnt go their way they need to make 5 new signings, kaka, messi, fab, terry,ronaldo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Rossoneri7]

Not a big surprise portugal ..

Milan has a star studded team at the moment and that attracts the fans ..

As for the stadiums being out and unsecured ... Trust me it is so secure now ... to get a ticket for any Serie A game from now on, you would have to purchase it directly from the bank, ticket will have your name printed on it and at the gate you will need identification to get through. It's tighter than a pirate's @^$* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In which case, the stadiums are more safe and families have slowly started going back.

[acid911]

Heh heh...one of these days, I should write a thesis on the 'Elegance of Post Prose in the works of Portikins'. Brevity truly is the soul of wit.

A very noble idea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/96.gif) But, I'd much rather have you finish the book you're currently working on, first: 'The Trials And Tribulations of Being An Online Forum Pirate'. It's long over due, in my opinion.

This post has been edited by acid911: Oct 30 2008, 08:55 AM

[Jack Sparrow]

But they just never stop. And there's this artist girl from California who's my muse you know...like the Scarlett Johansson to my Woody Allen...ever since Dida's disappeared she ain't erm...musing me no more...so the work just gets delayed further and further.

[acid911]

But they just never stop. And there's this artist girl from California who's my muse you know...like the Scarlett Johansson to my Woody Allen...ever since Dida's disappeared she ain't erm...musing me no more...so the work just gets delayed further and further.

I smell a very witty comment coming! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Miz?

[Il Diavolo]

Hello, I'm new here. An interesting discussion. In addition to the stuff you've mentioned, I'd add FDL. They don't exsist anymore. Some of the members are now part of other groups, but it's not the same. FDL made San Siro magical. It's not the same anymore and the Calciopoli is not even the main reason.

Glad we're first in Italy, but I wonder, would it have been the same if we didn't have Ronaldinho and Sheva?

As for Real fans - people go to the stadium in Spain... all the time. You can't say for sure that these fans are great supporters. Remember how they booed Capello for his defensive tactis although the team looked good for the first time since 2003? So, that's great support? Fans in Spain demand good football. They're used to it. Sometimes, it's even more important than their favorite team's titles. This is both good and bad, I guess, but fans in Italy seem to be more passionate and emotional. I don't like Roma, but seeing their fans kept singing after Inter scored their 4-th goal, made me proud I'm a fan of italian soccer. How often do you see that in Spain?

[dst]

Welcome! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I liked your post. And no, in Spain you see white handkerchiefs and booing instead. Not that this never happens in Italy but I think Italian fans are closer to their team than to their team's results.

[MizNelson]

But they just never stop. And there's this artist girl from California who's my muse you know...like the Scarlett Johansson to my Woody Allen...ever since Dida's disappeared she ain't erm...musing me no more...so the work just gets delayed further and further.

I smell a very witty comment coming! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Miz?

Allow me to say a few words to my pirate friend.

Balderdash. Hullabaloo. Mishigosh. Horsepuckey.

Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Zed.D]

(Apparently people have forgotten San Siro crowd's boos and jeers when we were playing like shite last season)

[dst]

(Apparently people have forgotten San Siro crowd's boos and jeers when we were playing like shite last season)

That was to the management. The fans came out and said so themselves. And this list is for last season so...

[Zed.D]

Then Real Madrid crowd's whistles were aimed at the directors (for not bringing the players they'd promised (like Kaka)). see, dst? you just change your logic depending on whether it's about Milan or Madrid.

Besides, I can't believe all the jeers and whistles, when Milan were playing like shite and were losing/drawing home game after another, were aimed solely at the management. I mean, those fans surely knew the players on the pitch would hear those boos and jeers too and feel bad about it. had they sympathized with the players, they wouldn't have done these things in presence of them at San Siro. at least not during the game, but between the halves when players were in the dressing room.

And one last thing, maybe I suffer from Alzheimer because I hardly remember Madrid fans booing or jeering their team I don't remember seeing white handkerchiefs, etc being waved in the Bernabeu either (I'd be happy to see a youtube clip of it because there MUST be when you guys talk about it so confidently). however I do remember Madrid fans applauding Ronaldinho's magic when Barca beat Madrid 3-0 at the Bernabeu (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[dst]

Then Real Madrid crowd's whistles were aimed at the directors (for not bringing the players they'd promised (like Kaka)). see, dst? you just change your logic depending on whether it's about Milan or Madrid.

??? How did I change my logic? You must be kidding me... how can you put the Milan and Real issue in the same bag?!?!? To begin with Real were winning while Milan were losing when those incidents happened... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Besides, I can't believe all the jeers and whistles, when Milan were playing like shite and were losing/drawing home game after another, were aimed solely at the management. I mean, those fans surely knew the players on the pitch would hear those boos and jeers too and feel bad about it. had they sympathized with the players, they wouldn't have done these things in presence of them at San Siro. at least not during the game, but between the halves when players were in the dressing room.

I do not defend the jeers and of course some of it was aimed at the players. The fact remains that the fans came out openly and said they were mostly again the board and not the players.

And one last thing, maybe I suffer from Alzheimer because I hardly remember Madrid fans booing or jeering their team I don't remember seeing white handkerchiefs, etc being waved in the Bernabeu either (I'd be happy to see a youtube clip of it because there MUST be when you guys talk about it so confidently). however I do remember Madrid fans applauding Ronaldinho's magic when Barca beat Madrid 3-0 at the Bernabeu (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Why are you so obsessed with Madrid? I said in Spain they do that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

I smell a very witty comment coming! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Miz?

Allow me to say a few words to my pirate friend.

Balderdash. Hullabaloo. Mishigosh. Horsepuckey.

Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oooooooooh baby! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

I just wrote a couple of pages more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[acid911]

Balderdash. Hullabaloo. Mishigosh. Horsepuckey.

The last three are my absolute favorite. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Particularly Horsepuckey, that's very witty!

I just wrote a couple of pages more.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Zed.D]

??? How did I change my logic? You must be kidding me... how can you put the Milan and Real issue in the same bag?!?!? To begin with Real were winning while Milan were losing when those incidents happened... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

That's not true.

When did those things happen when Real were winning??? I'm saying even in those 4 years of title drought they didn't do, for example, what some of the fans at San Siro did exactly in the same season we won a Super Cup and Club World Cup. you're awfully biased against Madrid, better not continue it.

I do not defend the jeers and of course some of it was aimed at the players. The fact remains that the fans came out openly and said they were mostly again the board and not the players.

Seriously, where does that come from? that those who jeered the management at San Siro came out and said they were 'mostly' aimed at the management?

Why are you so obsessed with Madrid? I said in Spain they do that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Waving white things in Spain doesn't always mean dissatisfaction if that's what you meant here:

I don't like Roma, but seeing their fans kept singing after Inter scored their 4-th goal, made me proud I'm a fan of italian soccer. How often do you see that in Spain?

And no, in Spain you see white handkerchiefs and booing instead.

[dst]

Man you don't know what you're talking about. Read my reply carefully, I'm being perfectly clear.

[Zed.D]

You're welcome to explain where I got you wrong! the first quote? the second quote? or the third quote?

[acid911]

Oh, I love these little dst vs zd skirmishes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif) Keep it up guys!

[Tennie]

Fishdoll gets out his popcorn. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[dst]

Actually for the Real part I'm talking about Capello's season so that's probably why you did no get me. Back then the team was winning and their fans were still complaining and booing even if it was an improvement compared to previous seasons. Milan were playing like **** last season wee did not even win at home until Christmas. That's why I think you cannot put these things together. For the fans I already mentioned that they came out and said so themselves. And again I'm not defending them. And yes the handkerchiefs are not ALWAYS waved for disapproval but that's not what I said.

[Zed.D]

I think those boos [in Capello's season] came in those periods when Madrid played unconvincingly! they nearly lost the title race to Barca on a few occasions and you sure remember how it was won on the last day. I think those jeers were a sign of worriment and impatience as they thought with this kind of football [which was pretty Capello-ish...] they wouldn't win the title, and they nearly didn't. they didn't even collect more points than Barca at the end of the season. but I'm not going to argue about it because that's what I think and I could be wrong.

For the fans I already mentioned that they came out and said so themselves.

Where? when?

[Habitant]

I think those boos [in Capello's season] came in those periods when Madrid played unconvincingly! they nearly lost the title race to Barca on a few occasions and you sure remember how it was won on the last day. I think those jeers were a sign of worriment and impatience as they thought with this kind of football [which was pretty Capello-ish...] they wouldn't win the title, and they nearly didn't. they didn't even collect more points than Barca at the end of the season. but I'm not going to argue about it because that's what I think and I could be wrong.



Where? when?

oh come on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) you dont have to continue rationalizing for them.

anyways that say it all. unless they're team is winning the champioshipn convincingly with style, with all the star players they want they jeere (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) sounds like great fans

(IMG:http://www.auburn.edu/~murraba/insp/baby,crying,tantrum.jpg)

[Zed.D]

^^

Let's just forget it! it's not worth it to continue arguing about something we'll never agree on.

(IMG:http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/nevermind.gif)

[Zed.D]

fans in Italy seem to be more passionate and emotional. I don't like Roma, but seeing their fans kept singing after Inter scored their 4-th goal, made me proud I'm a fan of italian soccer. How often do you see that in Spain?

Roma fans attack team bus
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov2g.html


How often do you see that happen in Spain? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tennie]

How many times in Italy do you hear monkey chants directed at players of color? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Habitant]

Roma fans attack team bus
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov2g.html


How often do you see that happen in Spain? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) if that was barca or real with he same form the team bus would have been bombed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
besides they were throwing money at them, impying that they think they're all mercenaries, hardly an attack.

This post has been edited by Habitant: Nov 2 2008, 05:28 PM

[dst]

Roma fans attack team bus
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov2g.html


How often do you see that happen in Spain? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Why do you take everything so dogmatically?

[Zed.D]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) 3 to 1? not fair!!

How many times in Italy do you hear monkey chants directed at players of color? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You mean there's not Racism in Italy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) if that was barca or real with he same form the team bus would have been bombed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
besides they were throwing money at them, impying that they think they're all mercenaries, hardly an attack.

We're not talking about IFs. and I think I was very clear with my post. he said Roma fans kept singing while their team was losing and how passionate they were (and these things didn't happen in Spain) etc etc I showed him this. didn't intended to get into an argument again!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Why do you take everything so dogmatically?

Shut up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[acid911]

3 to 1? not fair!!

Make it 3-and-half to one! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

You mean there's not Racism in Italy?

Is there? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) There are many black and colored people playing in Serie A, much more than La Liga. I like watching La Liga games, yes, but some of the stuff they do is just, meh. That's not to say there isn't racism in Italy, in fact it's every where in the world. I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

[Zed.D]

Make it 3-and-half to one! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


Is there? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) There are many black and colored people playing in Serie A, much more than La Liga. I like watching La Liga games, yes, but some of the stuff they do is just, meh. That's not to say there isn't racism in Italy, in fact it's every where in the world. I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

Of course there is!! both is Spain and in Italy.

[acid911]

Of course there is!! both is Spain and in Italy.

It's the same all over the world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) There's racism in Mexico, Italy, Spain, India, America, China, Japan, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Madagascar, Mongolia, hell even Antarctica, in one capacity or another. Reminds me of the 2006 movie 'Crash'.

[Zed.D]

How many times in Italy do you hear monkey chants directed at players of color? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'm sorry to be like this, but please read this.

[Tennie]

I never claimed Italy was perfect, zd. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There are problems there - a lot of them - but at the same time, there are also a lot of problems in Spain. Neither league is perfect, just as neither society is perfect.

[Zed.D]

I never claimed Italy was perfect, zd. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There are problems there - a lot of them - but at the same time, there are also a lot of problems in Spain. Neither league is perfect, just as neither society is perfect.

Then I'm sorry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[acid911]

Then I'm sorry.

And they call me the calmest member in these parts of the wood! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)