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Barzagli-Zaccardo, Get to work Kojak! |
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Jan 26 2007, 04:26 PM
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if they only come as a bundle... then I'd rather we didn't get them! Now if we can get Barzagli I'd be happy although I think we do not really need another center-back, especially one that will not compromise with sitting on the bench for most of the time...
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Jan 26 2007, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 26 2007, 03:26 PM) if they only come as a bundle... then I'd rather we didn't get them! Now if we can get Barzagli I'd be happy although I think we do not really need another center-back, especially one that will not compromise with sitting on the bench for most of the time... Do you think Don Paolo and Nesta will play forever! Paolo still have 1/2 years max in him and Nesta is always injured, plus he always said that he wants to end his career with Lazio, and with Costacurta and Simic level we really need a world quality CB!
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Jan 26 2007, 04:41 PM
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As dst said, if they come in a bundle then no thanks.
And after seeing Bonera playing like he's playing I'm not so sure we should be going after Barzagli. I would prefer it if we would go for a tall defender like Luisao that has a lot of presence. Or maybe even Alex from PSV
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Jan 26 2007, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 26 2007, 03:41 PM) As dst said, if they come in a bundle then no thanks. And after seeing Bonera playing like he's playing I'm not so sure we should be going after Barzagli. I would prefer it if we would go for a tall defender like Luisao that has a lot of presence. Or maybe even Alex from PSV You mean Barzagli isn't tall? (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 26 2007, 03:41 PM) Or maybe even Alex from PSV Is this a joke or what?!!
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Jan 26 2007, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (milanistar @ Jan 26 2007, 05:37 PM) Do you think Don Paolo and Nesta will play forever! Paolo still have 1/2 years max in him and Nesta is always injured, plus he always said that he wants to end his career with Lazio, and with Costacurta and Simic level we really need a world quality CB! Well Nesta won't be injured forever... and Kaladze, Simic as backups are more than good IMO! Nesta has not said anything about ending his career at Lazio (which he is what he'll do probably) but he will still play for Milan for the next 4 or 5 years I think. Now if we want a starter then we should get Luisão, not Barzagli...
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Jan 26 2007, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 26 2007, 03:46 PM) Well Nesta won't be injured forever... and Kaladze, Simic as backups are more than good IMO! Nesta has not said anything about ending his career at Lazio (which he is what he'll do probably) but he will still play for Milan for the next 4 or 5 years I think. Now if we want a starter then we should get Luisão, not Barzagli... I think Nesta still have no more than 2 years in the Milan shirt, Simic is in his way out of Milan (I hope!). About Luisao, Barzagli is 3x better and used to the Italian league so ...
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Jan 26 2007, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE (milanistar @ Jan 26 2007, 05:51 PM) About Luisao, Barzagli is 3x better OK...
This post has been edited by dst: Jan 26 2007, 04:55 PM
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Jan 26 2007, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (milanistar @ Jan 26 2007, 03:46 PM) Being tall doesn't mean that you have to be good, Luisao commands his areas much better. QUOTE (milanistar @ Jan 26 2007, 03:46 PM) Is this a joke or what?!! Nope. Alex is a very good defender
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Jan 26 2007, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 26 2007, 03:57 PM) Being tall doesn't mean that you have to be good, Luisao commands his areas much better. I can't argue about that since I didn't watch that much Luisao's games! QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 26 2007, 03:57 PM) Nope. Alex is a very good defender In that I can't agree with you, this guy is too slow and bad in the face-to-face situations!
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Jan 26 2007, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE (milanistar @ Jan 26 2007, 04:07 PM) In that I can't agree with you, this guy is too slow and bad in the face-to-face situations! He's not that slow and he might be suspect at times in personal battles but he's stil a good defender
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Jan 26 2007, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Jan 26 2007, 05:21 PM) It works like this: If you want a Nesta-type defender, Barzagli is your man. If you want a Stam-type defender, Luisao or Alex are your men. It all depends what kind of defender we are looking for and I believe we need the latter. Just imagine 2 Nestas in the same shirt (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
This post has been edited by milanistar: Jan 26 2007, 08:48 PM
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Jan 27 2007, 12:00 AM
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QUOTE (GULLIVER @ Jan 26 2007, 10:07 PM) Barzagli will be a very good investment in a team, I think if we get a chance to get him, we should not miss it. Gresso in inter, barzagli also there or in Juve. I think we are losing top class ITALIAN defenders. If you mean Grosso, I think this guy is full of sh!t and he is where he belongs to! PS. WC perfomences means nothing! QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Jan 26 2007, 10:42 PM) In four years, who do you think will be better, Bonera or Barzagli? I think Barzagli is already better!
This post has been edited by milanistar: Jan 27 2007, 12:03 AM
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Jan 27 2007, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE (GULLIVER @ Jan 27 2007, 12:07 AM) I think we are losing top class ITALIAN defenders. QUOTE (milanistar @ Jan 27 2007, 01:00 AM) I think Barzagli is already better! WTF!! What is wrong with you!!!!!!!!???????????... I guess it's a cliche already; people never appreciate what they have... Barzagli is not so special and he's definitely not better than Bonera!! For God's sake... what's with Barzagli in these forums, not even Palermo's fans are so passionate about him... QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jan 27 2007, 01:50 AM) Still...
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Jan 27 2007, 02:00 AM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jan 27 2007, 02:48 AM) with a loop??
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Jan 27 2007, 02:53 AM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jan 27 2007, 12:19 AM) I think we should go after someone like Luisao or Alex. I mean tall and physical defenders cause I don't really think we have anyone taller than 190 cm. There's also Cris of Lyon and Metzleder of Borusia Dortmund who could fit in our CB. Barzagli would be a good add, but we've already Bonera who in 2-3 years can become just as good as Barzagli. I wouldn't bring in Chris. I mena, he's a really solid defender, but he'll turn 31 this year, and everyone knows we have enough old defenders. Metzelder is a sold defender, and with 26 not too old, though I would prefer Mertesacker of Bremen if it comes to german defenders. He's only 22, and believe me, in 2 or 3 years he'll be among the Top3 defenders in the world. About Barzagli...as dst said, he's OK but nothing special. There are more defenders with his possibilties out there... With Italian defenders it's like Paolo once said "There are no good young italian defenders out there anymore.If there were, why would an old guy like me continue to play?"
This post has been edited by LaPalma: Jan 27 2007, 02:54 AM
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Jan 27 2007, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE (LaPalma @ Jan 27 2007, 04:53 AM) About Barzagli...as dst said, he's OK but nothing special. There are more defenders with his possibilties out there... With Italian defenders it's like Paolo once said "There are no good young italian defenders out there anymore.If there were, why would an old guy like me continue to play?" Well I think Bonera is giving Maldini some confidence (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But as far as Maldini's standards go, I doubt even Nesta could come close; not cuz I love this team to bits, but because both Maldini and Baresi were the meanest and toughest defenders that the history of football has ever come across. In terms of tactics and disapline; I think Maldini (and Baresi..) had no competition and still today have none for the standard that they showed at their prime. I'm sure there will be another great defender that could show us what these two legends showed us; but as of now, Terry, Puyol, and Nesta (and Cannavaro's WC perform) are the best defenders at the moment, but not as legendary .. As for young Italians; though I think Barzagli has a bright future ahead of him; but he isn't exactly the rock that most think he is, just watch his games at Palermo. He might show glimpses of this or that, but in all truth, I believe he is hyped up so much as the reign of Maldini is over, Cannavaro is almost over, and Nesta is only a couple of yrs away from retierment. So Italy had to put someone in the forfront. But if the kid was really talented, I'm curious to see what happenes to him this summer; I doubt he'll come to Milan or Juve, probably the viola
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Jan 27 2007, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 27 2007, 04:45 AM) WTF!! What is wrong with you!!!!!!!!???????????... I guess it's a cliche already; people never appreciate what they have... Barzagli is not so special and he's definitely not better than Bonera!! For God's sake... what's with Barzagli in these forums, not even Palermo's fans are so passionate about him... Well!! I just think Barzagli is the next Nesta. That's all. As much as I have seen him playing, he's very consistent and strong in defence. I don't say that Bonera is good or bad, I just say Barzagli is good also. (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)
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Jan 27 2007, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (GULLIVER @ Jan 26 2007, 10:07 PM) Barzagli will be a very good investment in a team, I think if we get a chance to get him, we should not miss it. Gresso in inter, barzagli also there or in Juve. I think we are losing top class ITALIAN defenders. Grosso is probably the most over rated player playing in Serie A (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) He didn't even play good in the WC all he did was score that goal and earn that penalty because other then that there wasn't anything special about him
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Jan 27 2007, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jan 27 2007, 04:09 AM) But as far as Maldini's standards go, I doubt even Nesta could come close; Trying to be objective I'd say that as a CB Maldini is not better than Nesta... of course Nesta will never be the legend Maldini already is, unless of course he leads Italy to a second consecutive WC -- and one he feels he deserves! QUOTE (BoomAM @ Jan 27 2007, 05:04 AM) Zaccardo, excellent player, but i doubt we need him if we've got Oddo. Unless he can play CB or LB. Zaccardo is NOT an excellent player... I admit I hadn't really noticed him last season and the WC was quite bad for a first impression but this season what I've seen was good... but still far from excellent! QUOTE (GULLIVER @ Jan 27 2007, 08:41 AM) Well!! I just think Barzagli is the next Nesta. Well I accept your opinion but you're a million times wrong!! (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) As Moratti would say, this is absurd!! What are you talking about?? QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 27 2007, 01:39 PM) He didn't even play good in the WC Now THAT IS biased!
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Jan 27 2007, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 27 2007, 12:09 PM) In what game did he actually impress? Either going forward or defending?? It's not about bias but there where better options. And I'm not saying this because Oddo is a Milan player but it's a fact that he is better then Grosso. He wasn't even a Milan player when I was saying that he should be a starter in the WC. If Lippi didn't have some sort of fetish for the Palermo players then the defence Italy should have played was Zambrotta on the left in his natural position and where he plays far better in then in the right and Oddo on the right. And when Zambrotta was injured Grosso should have played on the left and Oddo on the right instead of Zaccardo (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Jan 27 2007, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 27 2007, 02:29 PM) In what game did he actually impress? Either going forward or defending?? Me?? In every single one! Oddo wouldn't have played better but I agree that he should have played instead of Zaccardo in that game! And what does "all he did was score that goal and earn that penalty" mean?? Are you high or what?? You're telling me "all he did" is earning progression for Italy twice?? What the f@ck do you expect from a full-back... he even took the final penalty in the final... han... you haven't slept for a year or what? (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That doesn't mean I rate him high as a player in general... I actually think he's mediocre. WC/Euro performances are utterly delusive!
This post has been edited by dst: Jan 27 2007, 02:23 PM
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Jan 27 2007, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 27 2007, 01:22 PM) Me?? In every single one! Oddo wouldn't have played better but I agree that he should have played instead of Zaccardo in that game! And what does "all he did was score that goal and earn that penalty" mean?? Are you high or what?? You're telling me "all he did" is earning progression for Italy twice?? What the f@ck do you expect from a full-back... he even took the final penalty in the final... han... you haven't slept for a year or what? (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That doesn't mean I rate him high as a player in general... I actually think he's mediocre. WC/Euro performances are utterly delusive! Of course those goals he scored where very important to Italy but in doing his job as a full back I was never impressed by his defending and neither by his attacking on the flanks and putting in crosses, in fact I don't even think there was even a single goal scored by a cross soming in from him. As you said he is a mediocre player that is way too hyped up and had an above average performance in the WC by HIS standards, which isn't much considering that he isn't anything special
This post has been edited by han2503: Jan 27 2007, 02:35 PM
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Jan 27 2007, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 27 2007, 12:45 AM) WTF!! What is wrong with you!!!!!!!!???????????... I guess it's a cliche already; people never appreciate what they have... Barzagli is not so special and he's definitely not better than Bonera!! For God's sake... what's with Barzagli in these forums, not even Palermo's fans are so passionate about him... Actually everything is xrong with me! But still when you'll see Barzagli in la Juve shirt having an ewelent performences then you'll remember this, otherwise you'll remember this too (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) QUOTE (LaPalma @ Jan 27 2007, 01:53 AM) I wouldn't bring in Chris. I mena, he's a really solid defender, but he'll turn 31 this year, and everyone knows we have enough old defenders. Metzelder is a sold defender, and with 26 not too old, though I would prefer Mertesacker of Bremen if it comes to german defenders. He's only 22, and believe me, in 2 or 3 years he'll be among the Top3 defenders in the world. About Barzagli...as dst said, he's OK but nothing special. There are more defenders with his possibilties out there... With Italian defenders it's like Paolo once said " There are no good young italian defenders out there anymore.If there were, why would an old guy like me continue to play?" Well, he said that because he's too modest (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jan 27 2007, 02:09 AM) Well I think Bonera is giving Maldini some confidence (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But as far as Maldini's standards go, I doubt even Nesta could come close; not cuz I love this team to bits, but because both Maldini and Baresi were the meanest and toughest defenders that the history of football has ever come across. In terms of tactics and disapline; I think Maldini (and Baresi..) had no competition and still today have none for the standard that they showed at their prime. I'm sure there will be another great defender that could show us what these two legends showed us; but as of now, Terry, Puyol, and Nesta (and Cannavaro's WC perform) are the best defenders at the moment, but not as legendary .. As for young Italians; though I think Barzagli has a bright future ahead of him; but he isn't exactly the rock that most think he is, just watch his games at Palermo. He might show glimpses of this or that, but in all truth, I believe he is hyped up so much as the reign of Maldini is over, Cannavaro is almost over, and Nesta is only a couple of yrs away from retierment. So Italy had to put someone in the forfront. But if the kid was really talented, I'm curious to see what happenes to him this summer; I doubt he'll come to Milan or Juve, probably the violaDont worry la Juve will get him and make him great (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Jan 27 2007, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (GULLIVER @ Jan 27 2007, 07:41 AM) Well!! I just think Barzagli is the next Nesta. That's all. As much as I have seen him playing, he's very consistent and strong in defence. I don't say that Bonera is good or bad, I just say Barzagli is good also. (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif) Barzagli the next Nesta? I really don't think so. Barzagli is almost 26. In his age Nesta already was a world class defender and the captain of Lazio. He also led them to their first Scudetto in years. Now what has Barzagli achieved so far? I know that titles don't make a player better (look at Baggio, he barely won 5 titles or so...), but Barzagli is not a young player anymore. If he wants to become a Nesta similar defender. He's far away from beeing such class defender as Nesta is one. As well as Boner is btw...
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Jan 27 2007, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 27 2007, 06:03 PM) There's nothing to compare the two about that's why I didn't even bother doing so. Just one thing; Barzagli is 26... at 21 Nesta was the captain of Lazio and already an international... That's pretty much what I said (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Not to mention that he was 20 when he first played for Italy....Barzagli is nowhere near him. Nestas elegance when it comes to defending is awesome. Only Paolo defends more beautiful than him!
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Jan 27 2007, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (LaPalma @ Jan 27 2007, 07:10 PM) Oh no it wasn't meant for you... I just wanted to highlight their absolute disparity!
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Jan 27 2007, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 27 2007, 01:09 PM) Zaccardo is NOT an excellent player... I admit I hadn't really noticed him last season and the WC was quite bad for a first impression but this season what I've seen was good... but still far from excellent! Well your free to your own opinion. But having your opinion on him based upon his WorldCup performances isnt exactely concrete evidence of his ability is it? As the same flaws could be put at Ronaldinho, the entire England team bar Hargreaves, ect;
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Jan 28 2007, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Jan 27 2007, 07:39 PM) Maldini is an overall better player in every aspect of the game than Nesta. Whether it's defending, attacking, physical presence or technique. I have no doubt about this. But I wouldn't say Nesta is far away from him defensive-wise. well Maldini is a God... Nesta is his son! QUOTE (BoomAM @ Jan 27 2007, 09:20 PM) But having your opinion on him based upon his WorldCup performances isnt exactely concrete evidence of his ability is it? No no I said I've watched him this season as well and still I'm not so impressed. he's good but not excellent! QUOTE (GULLIVER @ Jan 28 2007, 01:00 AM) Oh no no please... it's just that I have a soft spot for Nesta, he's the one and only player I have been watching since his youth and it was when I started understanding football... The fact that many people still doubt him (Barzagli) at the age of 26 alone is telling considering Nesta was Lazio's captain at 21 and had already been called in the national team. He's been at the top from then till now... Barzagli will probably reach a world-class level some time in the future but he'll never be as good as Nesta IMO.
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Jan 28 2007, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE (milanistar @ Jan 28 2007, 02:17 AM) Well if you expected an over-head kick then you're only gonna get it from Materazzi. At least I gave you Rui! (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It was very good positioning and exploitation of strength and height by the way!
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Jan 28 2007, 03:19 AM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 28 2007, 01:00 AM) No no I said I've watched him this season as well and still I'm not so impressed. he's good but not excellent! Well as i said, your free to your opinion on him, and im free to mine. I rate him. You dont. No need to discuss further. (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jan 28 2007, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE (dst @ Jan 28 2007, 04:00 AM) well Maldini is a God... Nesta is his son! No no I said I've watched him this season as well and still I'm not so impressed. he's good but not excellent! Oh no no please... it's just that I have a soft spot for Nesta, he's the one and only player I have been watching since his youth and it was when I started understanding football... I know Nesta was and still is much more better then the defender from Palermo (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . Remember ? we were going to clone Nesta as a perfect example of CB. I just consider that defender to have full potential to reach high picks in football and I'd like him to be in Milan (IMG: http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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