[han2503]

Who: A.C. Milan vs. Hellas Verona



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/Verona%20Milan_zpszvp4v2cv.png)



Where: Stadio San Siro



(IMG:http://www.acmilan.com/uploads/club/sansiro.jpg)



When:
13th December 2015 @ 3:00pm CET


Head-to-Head Record



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/Milan-Verona%20Stats_zps4awq83pq.png)



Serie A Form Guide:
Milan: WDLWD
Verona: DLLLL

[Nova]

Anyone needs a stream for this match ? I will be out , so I can't adjust the setting if the settings are too high.

[William405]

Milan: Donnarumma; Abate, Alex, Romagnoli, De Sciglio; Niang, De Jong, Montolivo, Bonaventura; Luiz Adriano, Bacca

Milan bench: Abbiati, Livieri, Calabria, Zapata, Mexes, Ely, Poli, Kucka, Mauri, Bertolacci, Honda, Cerci

Verona: Gollini; Sala, Marquez, Moras, Piasano; Viviani, Greco;Wszolek, Ionita, Siligardi; Toni

Verona bench: Coppola, Bianchetti, Helander, Checchin, Winck, Zaccagni, Jankovic, Gomez Taleb, Pazzini

Pretty much a 4-2-4. I like it honestly.

[William405]

Anyone needs a stream for this match ? I will be out , so I can't adjust the setting if the settings are too high.

Probably me, because I don't seem to have the channel! Don't raise the settings too high if possible ^^ (my connection isn't the best..2mb/s)

[Nova]

Probably me, because I don't seem to have the channel! Don't raise the settings too high if possible ^^ (my connection isn't the best..2mb/s)

http://Milanfan.better-than.tv:5005/stream.flv

Tell me if it's fine, I'm leaving in a few minutes

[William405]

Just give me one sec.

[William405]

I'm using VLC..sound is fine, but video is not appearing. Although, I enabled video track, weird.

[Nova]

I'm using VLC..sound is fine, but video is not appearing. Although, I enabled video track, weird.

Weird indeed , works fine here. Try restarting it ?

[X-Offender]

Working fine for me.

[Nova]

Allright guys , I have to leave now. Have a good game !

[X-Offender]

Thanks Nova!

[X-Offender]

Oh dear, we are absolutely clueless. Zero game...

[William405]

What a stupid pass from the "captain"!

[X-Offender]

Bona just "ate" a goal.

[X-Offender]

Fucking blind linesman. Should be 1-0...

[X-Offender]

1-1 FT

I think I'm done. I'm not gonna watch this team again until I see some concrete results. Can't take this atrocity any longer.

[maldini03]

De Jong shouldn't see the field again for us. Absolutely horrible tackle from him, for such an experienced player to make a challenge like that is absolutely ridiculous. Abate in the 15 minutes he was captain showed more than Montolivo has shown the entire season. This is all indicative of a more serious problem, this team is just not up to par. We have pieces that seem to work well together but there is a distinct lack of quality.

The problem here is that the only way out of this hole is money. Players are not going to be coming to Milan for the prestige anymore and without the quality players we will not see Europe for a long while. Therefore we need a ton of money to bring those players in to get back into Europe to bring in more quality players.

The only way I can see around it is to bring in a coach that players want to play for, an Ancellotti, Capello, etc. You can see this same thing happening with Liverpool, for the past few years they haven't been able to bring in quality players, they get Klopp and boom they are a prime destination.

[han2503]

Only caught the last 20 minutes or so.

Just absolutely ashamed of this team, can't win against 2 of the worst teams in the league. Anyone who says this is because we're not good enough needs to seriously look deeper. Just inexcusable.

Miha is exactly the type of coach I feared he'd be, a mediocre one.

Any club who has big ambitions wouldn't have chosen him, that is what I was afraid of when the rumours about picking him first started and sadly I've been proven correct on that one. Just indefensible!

[X-Offender]

De Jong was terrible throughout the whole match, not just for that tackle. Worst performance I've ever seen from him. The penalty foul was the icing on the cake. After being out for such a long time, it was a mistake to play him from the start.

But regardless of individual performances, it's like Han said. Even if we're not good enough, even if we're sh*t, not winning against the worst two teams in the league is inexcusable. There is a huge psychological problem that goes beyond the quality of the players, although the quality of the players is what has gradually let to this psychological problem in the first place.

Unless we turn things around and start signing world class players and coaches that can change the mentality of this team, we're never going to escape from this circle of doom.

I'm out, for real. This is not Milan anymore. It's only a facade that the corrupt management of this club uses for their own agenda. AC Milan doesn't exist at this point in time. It has gone AWOL and we don't know when and if it will ever come back.

[Forza Milan!]

Only caught the last 20 minutes or so.

Just absolutely ashamed of this team, can't win against 2 of the worst teams in the league. Anyone who says this is because we're not good enough needs to seriously look deeper. Just inexcusable.

Miha is exactly the type of coach I feared he'd be, a mediocre one.

Any club who has big ambitions wouldn't have chosen him, that is what I was afraid of when the rumours about picking him first started and sadly I've been proven correct on that one. Just indefensible!

Agreed. Team quality is poor, but even what we have is (far) better than the last two teams we played. Miha has turned out to be yet another disappointment, but the root of the problem is still B&G.

FWIW, out of our last few coaches, Seedorf was the only one who (given enough time) might have gotten us somewhere. But even Seedorf was not the right person for this team. We need someone with experience, someone that players will respect. At this point, I would settle for Donadoni (he seems to have turned around Bologna fast enough, and the players there aren't any better than ours). Not the coach that will lead us to CL victory, but he should at least get us back to European competitions (which we desperately need).

[Forza Milan!]

I'm out, for real. This is not Milan anymore. It's only a facade that the corrupt management of this club uses for their own agenda. AC Milan doesn't exist at this point in time. It has gone AWOL and we don't know when and if it will ever come back.

Sadly, I have to agree. Still, at a personal level, I have been a Milan fan for over half a century, hard to stop supporting my team.

[maldini03]

Han I completely agree that the coach is a problem, but recently we haven't been making the Upper echelon (Barca, Madrid, Bayern) type of team decisions. We need a real coach to build a real team, the past decisions we have been making in coaches has been along a mediocre pattern. Allegri, Seedorf, Inzaghi, and now Miha have all been disappointing options and yet I have hoped that the last 3 would catch like a spark in a similar way to Guardiola. I think the management in the decisions of Seedorf and Inzaghi had hoped one of the two would be a cheap way to grow a coach in the vein of Ancelotti. They both felt like cheap cop outs and easy ways to avoid spending money.

This year to me seems like another useless one, this team is going to struggle to get to the Europa league and even that without help in January seems like a long shot. We need a shot in the arm in January in the form of quality players.

[X-Offender]

Ancelotti's rejection this summer was the turning point. I am positive that if Carlo had accepted, not only we'd have a top class coach, but we would have attracted bigger names as well. And management would have pleased any of Carlo's requests. Instead, we went with another cheap option who was happy with signing the likes of Bertolacci and Kucka, and that didn't tackle the true problem in our midfield: a lack of quality.

I said right after the first couple of games that this was another lost season for us. Sure, the games against Lazio and Sampdoria fooled me, I thought we could make a turn for the best, but in the end we're still where we left last season. A mid-table team full of garbage.

[Nova]

Ancelotti's rejection this summer was the turning point. I am positive that if Carlo had accepted, not only we'd have a top class coach, but we would have attracted bigger names as well. And management would have pleased any of Carlo's requests. Instead, we went with another cheap option who was happy with signing the likes of Bertolacci and Kucka, and that didn't tackle the true problem in our midfield: a lack of quality.

I said right after the first couple of games that this was another lost season for us. Sure, the games against Lazio and Sampdoria fooled me, I thought we could make a turn for the best, but in the end we're still where we left last season. A mid-table team full of garbage.

I didn't miss much apparently ...

[Fillipo Simone]

Ancelotti's rejection this summer was the turning point. I am positive that if Carlo had accepted, not only we'd have a top class coach, but we would have attracted bigger names as well. And management would have pleased any of Carlo's requests. Instead, we went with another cheap option who was happy with signing the likes of Bertolacci and Kucka, and that didn't tackle the true problem in our midfield: a lack of quality.

I said right after the first couple of games that this was another lost season for us. Sure, the games against Lazio and Sampdoria fooled me, I thought we could make a turn for the best, but in the end we're still where we left last season. A mid-table team full of garbage.

Most of us knew it. And you're right, Ancelotti was the turning point.

Anyway, why give up now? After 2 years of trash football, it kinda makes less sense to give up then stick around and wait for the change to come. Milan is still too big of a brand to just disappear in smoke. It's only a question of when we'll be picked up by someone and turned back where we belong.

[X-Offender]

Most of us knew it. And you're right, Ancelotti was the turning point.

Anyway, why give up now? After 2 years of trash football, it kinda makes less sense to give up then stick around and wait for the change to come. Milan is still too big of a brand to just disappear in smoke. It's only a question of when we'll be picked up by someone and turned back where we belong.

And I'm just going to wait for that moment to come. What's the point in watching our games now anyway?

[Fillipo Simone]

I don't know. There are so many answers to that question. Or versions of it.

[Nova]

It think Milan has an identity crisis. Money alone won't do the trick , and let's be honest , Milan never could compete with outgoing transfer sums with the likes of Barca , Real , ManUtd , ... But Milan had that winning DNA as we once all said . Relatively unknown players with immense talent combined with experienced top class players , an intellegent coach with a working plan and a management capable of producing a healthy balance between buying top players , producing talented youth and have scouts roaming the globe. I believe it was that what made Milan truly great. To be an absolute world class team with less "resources" than other team.

But then I remember those words from Uncle Fester that Milan cannot be that same club anymore and we must focus on youth alone. And I knew then , many years ago , that this would be Milan's downfall. After the last generation of world class players left like Nesta, Maldini , Gatusso , Pirlo , Seedorf , etc I knew we would come to this where we would end up with a pool of substandard players trapped in this surreal situation where the only thing that makes this club a topclub is it's history , that's it. We have a great history.

The future , even if we get funds from a new owner is "lost" in my oppinion. We lost that Milan DNA , that Milan Identity if I can call it that , when we let our old lions go and replaced them with players who are not cut out for a club like Milan. Suddenly players like Bonera became our new Nesta/Stam/Silva and we ended up with a puddle of , sorry for my languague , cr@p players/coaches/management.

There is nothing solid we can build a steady club on , our pilars are gone. I have been a Milan supporter since the Van Basten days , that's about 20 years now , and I really fear for the future of our club. I don't care about the money when it's our soul that we lost.

This post has been edited by Nova: Dec 14 2015, 10:52 AM

[Forza Milan!]

[...] I remember those words from Uncle Fester that Milan cannot be that same club anymore and we must focus on youth alone. [...]

But we never really tried that, did we? Instead, we went for a bunch of seemingly random players.

(The rest, I agree with.)

[Nova]

But we never really tried that, did we? Instead, we went for a bunch of seemingly random players.

(The rest, I agree with.)

I think those were mere hollow words by Fester as an excuse to justify the sad state of
the club. Even the once famous highly acclaimed Milanlab lost it's reliability.
Youth alone can never be a solution unless somehow you have a wonder teenage squad
at your disposal.

This post has been edited by Nova: Dec 14 2015, 03:03 PM

[X-Offender]

I don't know. There are so many answers to that question. Or versions of it.

Mind giving me one? Aside from the usual "you should support your club in the better and worse" talk.

It think Milan has an identity crisis. Money alone won't do the trick , and let's be honest , Milan never could compete with outgoing transfer sums with the likes of Barca , Real , ManUtd , ... But Milan had that winning DNA as we once all said . Relatively unknown players with immense talent combined with experienced top class players , an intellegent coach with a working plan and a management capable of producing a healthy balance between buying top players , producing talented youth and have scouts roaming the globe. I believe it was that what made Milan truly great. To be an absolute world class team with less "resources" than other team.

But then I remember those words from Uncle Fester that Milan cannot be that same club anymore and we must focus on youth alone. And I knew then , many years ago , that this would be Milan's downfall. After the last generation of world class players left like Nesta, Maldini , Gatusso , Pirlo , Seedorf , etc I knew we would come to this where we would end up with a pool of substandard players trapped in this surreal situation where the only thing that makes this club a topclub is it's history , that's it. We have a great history.

The future , even if we get funds from a new owner is "lost" in my oppinion. We lost that Milan DNA , that Milan Identity if I can call it that , when we let our old lions go and replaced them with players who are not cut out for a club like Milan. Suddenly players like Bonera became our new Nesta/Stam/Silva and we ended up with a puddle of , sorry for my languague , cr@p players/coaches/management.

There is nothing solid we can build a steady club on , our pilars are gone. I have been a Milan supporter since the Van Basten days , that's about 20 years now , and I really fear for the future of our club. I don't care about the money when it's our soul that we lost.

Indeed my friend, your perfectly summarized the feelings of every Milan fan. And the worst part of all this is that we don't seem to learn from our mistakes.

It became quite clear that relying on rookie coaches was not the way to go since Leonardo left, so who do we hire instead? Cagliari's Allegri, then Seedorf and Inzaghi with zero experience, and now another rookie in Mihajlovic. Outcome: the same usual bullshit.

But that's not the end of it. It seemed like we were trying to get rid of all these "rotten apples" we had in our dressing room, by gradually releasing the likes of Boateng, Muntari, Balotelli, Niang etc. only to get them back without any real plan or idea. Boateng's potential signing this January is mind-boggling.

Not to mention the usual Galliani panic buys at the last moment, the latest example of which being Kucka.

Nothing really seems to change, and it won't change until Galliani is shown the door for good, or at least somebody else is put in charge of signing the players, as Maldini suggested a few days ago.

[Forza Milan!]

Mind giving me one? Aside from the usual "you should support your club in the better and worse" talk.



Indeed my friend, your perfectly summarized the feelings of every Milan fan. And the worst part of all this is that we don't seem to learn from our mistakes.

It became quite clear that relying on rookie coaches was not the way to go since Leonardo left, so who do we hire instead? Cagliari's Allegri, then Seedorf and Inzaghi with zero experience, and now another rookie in Mihajlovic. Outcome: the same usual bullshit.

But that's not the end of it. It seemed like we were trying to get rid of all these "rotten apples" we had in our dressing room, by gradually releasing the likes of Boateng, Muntari, Balotelli, Niang etc. only to get them back without any real plan or idea. Boateng's potential signing this January is mind-boggling.

Not to mention the usual Galliani panic buys at the last moment, the latest example of which being Kucka.

Nothing really seems to change, and it won't change until Galliani is shown the door for good, or at least somebody else is put in charge of signing the players, as Maldini suggested a few days ago.

The problem is that I don't think Berlu understands that Galliani is at the root of the problem, nor will he acknowledge his own part in this. Galliani is his trusted advisor, the man who helped make Milan great. And of course he (Berlu) is always right. And who in the club will tell it to Berlu the way it is? Barbara may have tried, but at the end Berlu went back to the man he trusts. Recently I have seen a few articles highlighting the problem, but who listens to journalists?

Sad state of affairs.

This post has been edited by Forza Milan!: Dec 14 2015, 05:28 PM

[maldini03]

My question is, how long can Galliani's leash really be? Eventually Berlu is going to lose patience with him, at least thats my hope and he will be the one on the chopping block. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. Guys like Maldini, Nesta, Gattuso, etc should be with the team, as coaches or scouts or something. I think that would be the only way for us to rebuild that culture.

Why does Berlu have such ties to Galliani? I'm a relatively young (22) fan so my Milan history doesn't run as far back as some. I missed a lot of the golden days but I am thankful to have caught the great Ancellotti years. I got to see my team in the Champions League final 3 times. That is something many fans may never see. I'll never give them up even if we get relegated. The anger that I feel week to week can be washed away by the pictures and videos of those teams, and the hope that one day I will get to see a captain of Milan lift that cup again. Then all of this bs will seem like a distant memory.

[Forza Milan!]

My question is, how long can Galliani's leash really be? Eventually Berlu is going to lose patience with him, at least thats my hope and he will be the one on the chopping block. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. Guys like Maldini, Nesta, Gattuso, etc should be with the team, as coaches or scouts or something. I think that would be the only way for us to rebuild that culture.

Why does Berlu have such ties to Galliani? I'm a relatively young (22) fan so my Milan history doesn't run as far back as some. I missed a lot of the golden days but I am thankful to have caught the great Ancellotti years. I got to see my team in the Champions League final 3 times. That is something many fans may never see. I'll never give them up even if we get relegated. The anger that I feel week to week can be washed away by the pictures and videos of those teams, and the hope that one day I will get to see a captain of Milan lift that cup again. Then all of this bs will seem like a distant memory.

Of course I don't know what's in Berlu's mind, but my guess (fear) is that Galliani is in a solid position. Why? As you age, you become more reluctant to make changes (especially in critical areas). Also, the more successful you are in life, the more you become convinced that your judgment is always right, and the less likely you are to listen to advice from anyone that disagrees with you (assuming anyone you trust has the guts to disagree with you openly). Finally, Galliani has been "Berlu's man" from the start, and you stand by your people (this may be an "Italian thing", the "Signoria" philosophy from the Renaissance period surviving into modern times).

Bottom line, "Galliani is my man, and he helped me make Milan great. Why would I change now?".

[han2503]

I've been reading over all the things you guys have been saying, and I totally agree with everything. This club, just doesn't feel like Milan anymore. Sure I'll continue to watch the games, I still love this club and I have a lot of great memories of moments and players who have played for us in the past, but at this point, I'm mostly watching out of habit more than anything else.

Ancelotti's rejection this summer was the turning point. I am positive that if Carlo had accepted, not only we'd have a top class coach, but we would have attracted bigger names as well.

This comment perfectly illustrates how stupid, unimaginative and downright stuck in his ways Galliani is. So there is no other top coach out there besides Carlo? Or if we can't attract a top coach within the same tier as Carlo, you go for the next best thing. There are dozens of coaches out there who might not be top class names, but are reliable tacticians who get you results.

No, if going back to someone who is familiar for us didn't pan out we go out and bring in the first available rookie. It's simply the same pattern Galliani repeats over and over again each summer in the transfer market, first we chase players who we can't really attract, then instead of trying to think outside the box and bringing in someone who might not be a star name but is still a great player who will imprve the side, we make a panic buy and bring in the first random player offered to us by one of Galliani's "friends"

[han2503]

btw, Coppa match is tonight for anyone interested, will keep the comments here as there's no point in opening another thread

[X-Offender]

Just to be clear, if we win tonight we'll face Carpi in the quarters and the winner of Alessandria-Spezia in the semis. In other words, we'll have the path paved to the final. Let's see...

[han2503]

Just to be clear, if we win tonight we'll face Carpi in the quarters and the winner of Alessandria-Spezia in the semis. In other words, we'll have the path paved to the final. Let's see...

that's a big IF, same old steaming pile of cr@p so far from this team.

Cerci and Kucka are just huge liabilities, Monto and someone (anyone) should come on for them

[han2503]

Goal, Niang!

[han2503]

The amount of times Cerci is caught off side while standing in a position where he can literally see the entire defensive line is simply astonishing. This guy's IQ is probably shockingly low. Such a tactical donkey!

[maldini03]

I was just saying the same thing Han, and after everyone he shakes his head like he was positive he was on. It happens so much it's become comical.

Good win here, hopefully we can use this competition to sneak back into Europe

[Nova]

Couldn't watch the game... We can even reach the final and lose against a Cl qualified team and
still qualify for the EL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[han2503]

Couldn't watch the game... We can even reach the final and lose against a Cl qualified team and
still qualify for the EL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Some seriously huge ambitions right there (IMG:http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/rocking-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif)

[Nova]

Some seriously huge ambitions right there (IMG:http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/rocking-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif)

Any moment now untill Zio Fester claims the EL is better then CL ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
We're stuck in Wonderland with the Mad Hatter as our CEO and all of our players ate the
"no talent" cookies. What a mess ! That is my prediction btw , we will play EL by not winning the coppa. Place your bets (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)