[KillerMax]

Preziosi: Stop Serie A 
Monday 12 November, 2007
Genoa President Enrico Preziosi has called for a long break in the Serie A season after the weekend’s turmoil.

After the chaotic events of the weekend, the Rossoblu patron doesn’t want to see the problem brushed under the carpet.

“You can’t pretend that nothing happened yesterday,” Preziosi told Radio Kiss Kiss. “This is the umpteenth demonstration that something isn’t working.

“I don’t agree with banning away fans. Why should we have to stop honest citizens who want to watch a game in another city?”

Preziosi’s solution to the current crisis is one of the more radical suggestions to be proposed over the last 24 hours.

“It’s not right to punish everyone just to stop a few. Rather than stop a single game or ban away fans, I’d be inclined to suspend the championship until something changes.

“Two or three months off would help show the world of football it’s true nature.

“I don’t believe in the culture of prohibition, rather I think we need to apply the rules that we already have.

“The laws are there to stop these events, but they are never fully applied. I think it’s time to call an end to this.”

Football Italia

I agree 100%. This is the way to deal with these issues.

[Tennie]

Sports Minister Melandri is asking the extraordinary meeting going on right now (FIGC, Lega Calcio, government) to consider 'setting and example' and stopping the championship temporarily.

[armiss]

Serie A STOP ????? Foolish Decisions from those who cant make things better , only worse and worse , last year they thought they made a revolution , this is the result ,they must go away .please leave us alone! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

This post has been edited by armisse: Nov 12 2007, 05:26 PM

[Rossoneri7]

(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[Rossoneri7]

Actually Abate (president of FIGC) had come out and said that the suspension of Serie A was never an option as it would interfere with a lot of things that were already on the agenda. Therefor, under no circumstances is Serie A gonna halt !!! This is just the media, trying to sell you BS all over again (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Tennie]

Er. Repeated quotes from a government minister in several different media outlets are all media bs? Gonna have to disagree with you on that one, R7. I do think that Melandri has called for /consideration/ of a suspension of play. Whether it happens or not, I dunno.

[Rossoneri7]

It is an option, yes, but its a BS option which the media blew up into mass proportions. It's up to you to measure how logical it is ... I am just voicing my opinion, based on how this thing will break down.

[Tennie]

I don't see what you're basing your opinion on as to it being blown out of proportion. Could you cite which media sources you think are overdoing things, please?

I'm basing my opinion on the reporting in Gazzetta which is generally reliable and which, for example, includes links to voice and video interviews with people.

Are you inferring that I'm making bad logic because my opinion differs from yours?

[Jack Sparrow]

If Serie A is suspended, then UEFA will have to block Italian teams from European competitions as well. Since all these teams will have a huge advantage over the others.

Are the FIGC ready to go to this extent? I don't think so. Not to mention to resume the season would mean the season would extend well into the summer, leaving the players too worn out to begin next season. And that in turn affect next year's CL, starting off a whole vicious cycle.

Nope I think the government official is just playing to the media. Football is in Italy's blood, it's not just entertainment for these guys. I don't think the government would stop it.

Besides what's the Genoa prez on about? Isn't the new measures all about stopping crowd violence in stadiums?? You can do as much about two sets of people fighting outside on the streets(not even near a stadium) as you can with routine gang wars, or muggings. It's simply not a footballing security issue. It's just that the two sets of fans happened to have a cause to argue. In all probablity, it was not even a team loyalty issue. Just push coming to shove and it became a gang war.

I mean Lazio-Juve?? Sure Juve is a team everyone loves to hate, but there's nothing between them! If it was lazio-roma maybe they can come up with the footballing rivalry getting out of hand.

I'd say two drunk guys picked up a fight, their buddies joined in, and it became a free-for-all. Don't tell me you haven't heard this story before!! The football angle is a coincidence.


Serie A shouldn't be stopped imo for this reason (the Laziale's death).

If anything, what the FIGC should look into, is why inspite of all those new restrictions, stuff rained into the Bergamo stadium. How the glass was broken? etc.

And of course the rioting is the biggest mistake the Ultras are making, they're in fact putting themselves up for the penalty when it would otherwise have slipped off them. I would guess, from what I've seen, it's just people letting some steam off after last year's FIGC baton waving. I'm not saying it's right...but that's pretty much what it is.
IMO.

[KillerMax]

Stopping Serie A would be of great benefit in the long run. Already missing out to host the World Cup should be enough reason to do this. And stopping Serie A won't necessarily mean no CL. When there are terrorists in a stadium breaking a seemingly 'unbreakable' safety glass and threatening to do obscene things to their own players and there is no police to stop them, you know you have a problem.

[Tennie]

Looks like Serie B will be called off for the weekend (games were scheduled for Sunday). Nothing definite yet.

[mishie]

Looks like Serie B will be called off for the weekend (games were scheduled for Sunday). Nothing definite yet.

Serie B officially called off games were scheduled for sunday*....i hope they suspend all professional games for at least a month because i'm getting fed up with this starting with the Dida incident up to yesterday's tragic incident would be nice to concentrate on the football for once!

*source www.channel4.co.uk/footballitalia

[I_Rossoneri]

Serie B officially called off games were scheduled for sunday*....i hope they suspend all professional games for at least a month because i'm getting fed up with this starting with the Dida incident up to yesterday's tragic incident would be nice to concentrate on the football for once!

*source www.channel4.co.uk/footballitalia

I can't see what suspending the Serie A would achieve? The only people that it would affect are the majority of law abiding fans who only want the best for their club. When the suspension is over the thugs will still be there to spoil it.

One thing the clubs could do would be to totally disown themselves from the ultras, that would hopefuly reduce their so called power.

[mishie]

I can't see what suspending the Serie A would achieve? The only people that it would affect are the majority of law abiding fans who only want the best for their club. When the suspension is over the thugs will still be there to spoil it.

One thing the clubs could do would be to totally disown themselves from the ultras, that would hopefuly reduce their so called power.

trouble is tho the majority of law abiding fans don't hold the power within the clubs. punish the many to punish the few.....harsh but these are tough times and hopefully with such a harsh punishment the majority will turn on the few and we can end these crazy times

[Warchant]

i see the benefits of suspending the season...but i feel there are too many other consequences that would come from the suspention.

true, italian soccer has gotten out of hand, but i, too, agree that it would accomplish nothing. when people want to disrupt something, they won't stop just because you hold off games for a couple of months.

i feel like the gov't has lost control of its citizens and is trying to blame soccer for it...the gov't needs to punish its people...not the clubs

[kurtsimonw]

I'm just curious - Why do these 'Ultras' have any power in a club at all? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[I_Rossoneri]

trouble is tho the majority of law abiding fans don't hold the power within the clubs. punish the many to punish the few.....harsh but these are tough times and hopefully with such a harsh punishment the majority will turn on the few and we can end these crazy times

If you read the second sentence I said the clubs should disown themselves from the ultras. That way it would only be the minority that would be punished.

BTW why should the majority be punished? You're talking about people who actually pay to watch their teams and pose no threat to anyone else. It seems very unfair to punish innocent people while seemingly letting the troublemakers go free (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[KillerMax]

It's more to do with identifying the trouble makers than just stopping Serie A for no reason. As you saw, when the games went on last week, there was all sorts of problems. In the Atalanta - Milan game there was no police to interfere which is a big concern considering how serious the trouble was. If they stopped for a little while and thought things through to prevent such nonsense in the future, then it will definitely be helpful.

[Jack Sparrow]

My point exactly Max. The issue here shouldn't be the Laziale's death from the policeman's gun. It ought to be why in the Bergamo there was no protection?!! Or why the ultras were allowed to stop the match in the first place. There should be enough police power to evac the place off these militants (they are NOT ultras), when such incidents happen. In this scenario, by resorting to force, the militants have gotten what they wanted. It's even set off a precedent!!

I'm sure banning(don't really like this one) or placing heavy restrictions on the Ultras can be done WITHOUT suspending the league.

The Ultras are one of my favourite things about Serie A. I used to dream about being a part of FDL. Now things are a little different. There's a lot more militancy in the approach. And maybe it's a reflection on the socio-economic conditions in the country? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

England banning the ultras is a different case. Despite kurt's and Ash's best attempts to be b@d @$$, the English are intrinsically good, law abiding, society-serving individuals. If a law is there, they tend to follow it. D'ya know they even queue up for the bus (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'll tell you kurt's gonna have to wait a LOOOOONG time to catch a bus in India!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Rossoneri7]

I don't see what you're basing your opinion on as to it being blown out of proportion. Could you cite which media sources you think are overdoing things, please?

I'm basing my opinion on the reporting in Gazzetta which is generally reliable and which, for example, includes links to voice and video interviews with people.

Are you inferring that I'm making bad logic because my opinion differs from yours?

I am not inferring anything .. and I wasn't directing anything to you, so don't take it personally (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I am basing this assumption on mere logic, where if Serie A would be suspended for more than one week. Serie A would lose credibility and as Kaka' said in FI :

“Italian football is losing credibility,” Kaka told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “We need to take action immediately or the sport could die.

“The scandals, the dead police officer and now the dead fan. Stop it now or the champions will leave one after another.”

Now, the reports in the media are blown out of proportions as they would manipulate words and pick and choose the right quotes that would set ablaze this whole dilemma. How come I know this?! Because I am one who takes the media propaganda into account and have read several scholars who have dissected the media's politics.

Therefor, I base my theory on an 'assumption' that Serie A wont be suspended because it would damage more than it would fix! And with that said, I believe Abate's option would be both feasible and logical.

[pacang]

shutting down the game won't help.. these things happened because of the game, and without it something worse could happen..

and i'm against the "away fans should be banned" decision.. if they have the away dan to attack, maybe they will attack the players.. there's no guarantee this won't happen..

these 'rage' happens everywhere in the world. and the standard procedure to control it is by tightening up the security at the stadium, which is already tight enough in italy.. maybe the official's gonna try something new.. neutral ground rules maybe..

[kurtsimonw]

England banning the ultras is a different case. Despite kurt's and Ash's best attempts to be  b@d @$$, the English are intrinsically good, law abiding, society-serving individuals. If a law is there, they tend to follow it. D'ya know they even queue up for the bus (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'll tell you kurt's gonna have to wait a LOOOOONG time to catch a bus in India!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

One big reason in stopping football violence over here was that they stopped putting it in the papers - the troublemakers (Who just wanted to be known as 'bad ***') were then not getting any exposure, people had no idea who these idiots were so they gave up on it. Obviously there's still a few people that do it, especially when it comes to playing in Europe, because they know it'll get noticed. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Therefor, I base my theory on an 'assumption' that Serie A wont be suspended because it would damage more than it would fix! And with that said, I believe Abate's option would be both feasible and logical.

I have to agree here. Let's say this season was just stopped, I would be shocked if UEFA didn't stop all Italian sides from playing in European competition as they would have an unfair advantage with not playing in the league. They would also not be able to play in Europe the following season since they wouldn't have qualified for it though league position. This would massively impact clubs financially and I don't think there's any doubt that the majority of players would want to leave the league and play elsewhere.

Serie A would not only lose what little bit of reputation it had around the World, it would also lose alot of money and it's players. I don't see how that will help at all.

[I_Rossoneri]

It's more to do with identifying the trouble makers than just stopping Serie A for no reason. As you saw, when the games went on last week, there was all sorts of problems. In the Atalanta - Milan game there was no police to interfere which is a big concern considering how serious the trouble was. If they stopped for a little while and thought things through to prevent such nonsense in the future, then it will definitely be helpful.

The police are scared to go into curvas, that is why there is always problems there. Perhaps if they were to go heavy handed into the curvas then things might change, but I read that if the Italian police attack Italian people there is an outcry, but if the police attack foreigners then there is no problem. No wonder there is so much trouble in curvas.

BTW I don't think all the ultras are bad, it seems that a minority spoil it for the majority.

[I_Rossoneri]

My point exactly Max. The issue here shouldn't be the Laziale's death from the policeman's gun. It ought to be why in the Bergamo there was no protection?!! Or why the ultras were allowed to stop the match in the first place. There should be enough police power to evac the place off these militants (they are NOT ultras), when such incidents happen. In this scenario, by resorting to force, the militants have gotten what they wanted. It's even set off a precedent!!

I'm sure banning(don't really like this one) or placing heavy restrictions on the Ultras can be done WITHOUT suspending the league.

The Ultras are one of my favourite things about Serie A. I used to dream about being a part of FDL. Now things are a little different. There's a lot more militancy in the approach. And maybe it's a reflection on the socio-economic conditions in the country? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

England banning the ultras is a different case. Despite kurt's and Ash's best attempts to be  b@d @$$, the English are intrinsically good, law abiding, society-serving individuals. If a law is there, they tend to follow it. D'ya know they even queue up for the bus (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'll tell you kurt's gonna have to wait a LOOOOONG time to catch a bus in India!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I must admit that I used to be amazed watching the ultras with their displays and choreographies. But, unfortunately, all we seem to see now is the darker side of ultra culture and the thing is is that it's seriously affecting the Serie A - that is why I think the clubs must disown themselves from ultras completely.

[mishie]

I must admit that I used to be amazed watching the ultras with their displays and choreographies. But, unfortunately, all we seem to see now is the darker side of ultra culture and the thing is is that it's seriously affecting the Serie A - that is why I think the clubs must disown themselves from ultras completely.

how can you disown what is essentially the club itself...maybe milan are different but smaller clubs are essentially run by and for the Ultra's so its impossible to disown yourself (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Tennie]

The Amato legislation passed in February set out very detailed regulations for ultra/club stuff. This includes stuff like: club subsidization of ultra tickets, club sale of blocks of tickets to ultras for the ultras to then resell at profits, club subsidization of the coreos, ultras having free concessions to sell food/gear/stuff at and around games. Legally, clubs can't do any of that now -- and the ultra groups don't like it one bit. This is why the Milan fans were 'silent' for a couple of games earlier in the season. It's why Lazio owner Lotito has a bodyguard: he's had multiple death threats since he yanked the concession stands from the Lazio ultras 3 years ago.

The police need to enforce the laws. But it isn't as simple as that, because in Italy there's an undercurrent of distrust/disrespect for 'law'. There are also some pretty serious economic problems; the gap between rich/poor is getting bigger, unemployment is high, etc etc. ITaly is still dealing with the negative effects of converison to the euro. The poor economy is feeding into the general discontent that we see manifested as rioting ultras.

So it is really a societal thing that needs to be addressed. Calcio needs to do its part but so does the government, the church, business, and individual people.

[Rossoneri7]

The Amato legislation passed in February set out very detailed regulations for ultra/club stuff. This includes stuff like: club subsidization of ultra tickets, club sale of blocks of tickets to ultras for the ultras to then resell at profits, club subsidization of the coreos, ultras having free concessions to sell food/gear/stuff at and around games. Legally, clubs can't do any of that now -- and the ultra groups don't like it one bit. This is why the Milan fans were 'silent' for a couple of games earlier in the season. It's why Lazio owner Lotito has a bodyguard: he's had multiple death threats since he yanked the concession stands from the Lazio ultras 3 years ago.

The police need to enforce the laws. But it isn't as simple as that, because in Italy there's an undercurrent of distrust/disrespect for 'law'. There are also some pretty serious economic problems; the gap between rich/poor is getting bigger, unemployment is high, etc etc. ITaly is still dealing with the negative effects of converison to the euro. The poor economy is feeding into the general discontent that we see manifested as rioting ultras.

So it is really a societal thing that needs to be addressed. Calcio needs to do its part but so does the government, the church, business, and individual people.

Brilliant insight !!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

The Euro has increased the gap between rich/poor in Europe (middle class is diminishing at the same rate) .. More importantly, exports are decreasing (and not only from Italy, but all over the EU). One of the main issues why GB wont convert from it's Sterling.

About the Ultras, yeah, I remember you talked about them earlier ... And a radical change such as what the Amato had taken, needs time for the Ultra's to take in, as they have been given such privileges for sometime now.

[I_Rossoneri]

how can you disown what is essentially the club itself...maybe milan are different but smaller clubs are essentially run by and for the Ultra's so its impossible to disown yourself (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

What are you talking about? what clubs are run by ultras? I think you are rather misguided.

Unfortunately there is a minority of ultras(or hooligans classing themselves as ultras) who are giving the Serie A a very bad name and have been doing so for a while. Everytime there is trouble in Italy it seems that ultras are responsible for it. Thing is this can't keep happening because sooner or later UEFA are going to step in and sanction the Serie A. That could have disastrous consequences for the team I love and the league I enjoy, and something needs to be done about it before that happens and the only way I can see is for the clubs to totally disown themselves from the ultras. After all with no Serie A there will be no ultras, and I would rather carry on watching Serie A (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[I_Rossoneri]

The Amato legislation passed in February set out very detailed regulations for ultra/club stuff. This includes stuff like: club subsidization of ultra tickets, club sale of blocks of tickets to ultras for the ultras to then resell at profits, club subsidization of the coreos, ultras having free concessions to sell food/gear/stuff at and around games. Legally, clubs can't do any of that now -- and the ultra groups don't like it one bit. This is why the Milan fans were 'silent' for a couple of games earlier in the season. It's why Lazio owner Lotito has a bodyguard: he's had multiple death threats since he yanked the concession stands from the Lazio ultras 3 years ago.

The police need to enforce the laws. But it isn't as simple as that, because in Italy there's an undercurrent of distrust/disrespect for 'law'. There are also some pretty serious economic problems; the gap between rich/poor is getting bigger, unemployment is high, etc etc. ITaly is still dealing with the negative effects of converison to the euro. The poor economy is feeding into the general discontent that we see manifested as rioting ultras.

So it is really a societal thing that needs to be addressed. Calcio needs to do its part but so does the government, the church, business, and individual people.

Excellent post (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mishie]

What are you talking about? what clubs are run by ultras? I think you are rather misguided.

ok i know nothing and you know it all..thats fair enough you'll no longer need or want to hear my opinion...leave it to ya (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[I_Rossoneri]

ok i know nothing and you know it all..thats fair enough you'll no longer need or want to hear my opinion...leave it to ya (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I put my piece underneath if you can't be bothered to answer that then your ignorance is not my fault.

And BTW my sarcy answer was in response to your sarcastic smilie, it seems you can't handle what you dish out (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[mishie]

how can be can't be bothered be classed as ignorance?
as for the piece underneath you'd already said it about disowning the ultra's and i answered it...i'm not in the habit of repeating myself....unless you don't understand of course (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[LaPalma]

Brilliant insight !!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

The Euro has increased the gap between rich/poor in Europe (middle class is diminishing at the same rate) .. More importantly, exports are decreasing (and not only from Italy, but all over the EU). One of the main issues why GB wont convert from it's Sterling.

About the Ultras, yeah, I remember you talked about them earlier ... And a radical change such as what the Amato had taken, needs time for the Ultra's to take in, as they have been given such privileges for sometime now.

What u say about the Euro and the xports...it's just not true pal. Many european countrys do export more than in their entire history. Germany for example exports more wares than any other country in the world (they didn't before the euro). And if export are diminishing now this has nothing to do with the Euro but with the weak dollar. GB just won't give away they're sterling because they're more sentimental about their money than others. Plus, they're generally more scpetic about the EU than the french or the germans.

About the "Ultra situation": IMO it can't go one like this. I dunno what to do, but if there's not something big happening soon, the Serie will bleed to death soon. For one the good players will leave in some years. And then...what kinda league is this in which even the players admit that they wouldn't take their own children to a Serie A game?

This post has been edited by LaPalma: Nov 14 2007, 01:52 PM

[Rossoneri7]

What u say about the Euro and the xports...it's just not true pal. Many european countrys do export more than in their entire history. Germany for example exports more wares than any other country in the world (they didn't before the euro). And if export are diminishing now this has nothing to do with the Euro but with the weak dollar. GB just won't give away they're sterling because they're more sentimental about their money than others. Plus, they're generally more scpetic about the EU than the french or the germans.

But it is a fact that the Euro has increased the cost of living in Euro countries .. We agree here, right?

If we agree here, then we can also agree in that the Euro has caused a decrease in exports from those countries, because of it's high value in ratio to lets say the Dollar, per your argument.


I don't know about the Euro countries exporting more now than in their history, because their products are much more expensive now .. For obvious reasons.


Actually the GB Sterling is one of the safest currencies in the world. Many securities are bought in Sterling. And in the FX market, it is the most in demand atm.

[LaPalma]

But it is a fact that the Euro has increased the cost of living in Euro countries .. We agree here, right?

If we agree here, then we can also agree in that the Euro has caused a decrease in exports from those countries, because of it's high value in ratio to lets say the Dollar, per your argument.
I don't know about the Euro countries exporting more now than in their history, because their products are much more expensive now .. For obvious reasons.
Actually the GB Sterling is one of the safest currencies in the world. Many securities are bought in Sterling. And in the FX market, it is the most in demand atm.

Wel...certainly the steerling is a very safe currency. But so is the Euro.
But did the Euro really increase the costs of living? Well...I can't tell for any country but at least in Germany empirical studies showed, that the living costs didn't increase more than they did in previous years.

For obvious reasons.

Talking about which obvious reasons?

[Rossoneri7]

Check ur PM LaPalma.

This post has been edited by Rossoneri7: Nov 14 2007, 03:36 PM

[milanista1899]

It's more to do with identifying the trouble makers than just stopping Serie A for no reason.

The issue here shouldn't be the Laziale's death from the policeman's gun. It ought to be why in the Bergamo there was no protection?!! Or why the ultras were allowed to stop the match in the first place.

The police are scared to go into curvas, that is why there is always problems there. Perhaps if they were to go heavy handed into the curvas then things might change, but I read that if the Italian police attack Italian people there is an outcry, but if the police attack foreigners then there is no problem. No wonder there is so much trouble in curvas.

BTW I don't think all the ultras are bad, it seems that a minority spoil it for the majority.

One big reason in stopping football violence over here was that they stopped putting it in the papers - the troublemakers (Who just wanted to be known as 'bad ***') were then not getting any exposure, people had no idea who these idiots were so they gave up on it. Obviously there's still a few people that do it, especially when it comes to playing in Europe, because they know it'll get noticed.

true, italian soccer has gotten out of hand, but i, too, agree that it would accomplish nothing. when people want to disrupt something, they won't stop just because you hold off games for a couple of months.

i feel like the gov't has lost control of its citizens and is trying to blame soccer for it...the gov't needs to punish its people...not the clubs.

Exactly, this is what we should be trying to do. Once this is done they will be dealt with & the problem will be solved. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yes, because that is a social matter & not a footballing one. In relation to the Atalanta-Milan game, yes that should be the issue but I doubt it will be looked into or that something will be done about it. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Yes, the Italian police are nothing but a bunch of bullies, and bullies are nothing but cowards. They won't hesitate to beat up innocent/defenseless English fans but when it comes to Italian ones they are scared. They are right to be scared but even so it's their job, they need to act with integrity (which is seemingly too much to ask for). (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I thought there were supposed to be stewards in the grounds now, obviously they didn't show up either. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Yea, the lack of exposure has helped in England. However (football) hooliganism will never go away, there's still a lot of it going on because the "firms" will never die. Yea it still goes on in Europe, you only have to look at Tottenham in Spain (against Valencia/Sevilla? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) ) throwing chairs at the police (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Spot on (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif) football's being made a scapegoat here when it should be the government/society under the spotlight, not Serie A!

This post has been edited by milanista1899: Nov 14 2007, 06:45 PM

[dst]

That would be stupid, it's what those fanatics want!

[Jack Sparrow]

^^^

(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Was that your attempt to have the last word on the subject?? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)