Zlatan is still an incredible player imo, even now. I'd take him back for sure.

But I think it's just the media trying to turn this into some fantasy football thing.

Yep, I get this. But hopefully it won't be the Chinese government, this is probably where I've put a line.


Han, we had this discussion numerous times and you stubbornly forget to mention one very important aspect: FIAT. It's the crucial aspect for Juventus. No need to overelaborate on this.

If Finivest would have been in the same good position FIAT is and always will be, Milan would also stand out.

What has FIAT got to do with anything? Han is talking about decision-making, and how the difference between Juve's decisions and our decisions have made the difference.

Take 2007 as the base year. Juve had just returned from Serie B, we had just won the Champions League. Juve start gradually re-building themselves thanks to a laid-down strategy, despite it initially not paying off and leading to two consecutive 7th placements.

We, on the other hand, fail to use the momentum and money generated, and instead of building upon our success, offer fat contract extensions to overaged and demotivated players, all while making wrong transfer decisions one year after another (Emerson, Senderos, Onyewu, Mancini etc.). We try to lure players past their prime (Ronaldinho, Beckham, Sheva's return) instead of investing in young and/or affirmed talents. And even when we did that (Pato's case), we destroy them thanks to bad decisions in the medical department.

You see, it's a series of poor judgment calls that's led us to where we are right now. It's not just Galliani, but the club as a whole that's to be blamed. In the end, we had to pay for it and sell those few valuable players we had in order to make up for the losses we helped cause ourselves. Whereas Juve learned from their initial mistakes, took provisions and made the right calls. It's not like they spent much more on Bonucci, Vidal and Tevez than we did on, say, Zapata, Boateng and Robinho. But look how it turned out for them and how it turned out for us.

Then there's the whole Pirlo argument. And the coaches. Leo, Seedorf, Pippo - zero experience whatsoever. If that's not poor decision-making, then I don't know what it is.

OFFICIAL: Ancelotti has said no.

Sorry, don't have much time for a more comprehensive answer right now.

To say it in short, it has all the world to do. Maybe Han was talking about decision-making, but I was talking about the general frame. So you cannot say I'm off with my comment. Back to FIAT; the difference is, Juventus has the economic background that makes these "smart" moves possible. As you said, we don't follow that line: but it's not that our management said let's make things less boring and try a complete rookie.

And now with Ancelotti, it's evidently how we work: it's either a good coach - meaning money to be spent for signings, or a rookie whose happy with what he has.

You cannot separate the economic and the footballing perspective at all. They're interdependent and deeply connected.

Interesting article. The first half basically says what I was trying to say, the second claims that the reason for the rather contradictory statements may be that a sale (or large investment) is about to happen.

Actually, if there is a sale (or large investment) I am hoping it is the Chinese government and not Mr. Bee.


Neah. FIAT can explain Juve's success, at least in part. However, it does not do so entirely. Also, more important, it does not explain the bad choices we have made, it does not explain how other teams (with much smaller revenue than Milan and no FIAT backing) have been doing better than us in recent years (8 of them, this year).

Sure. But that's why I said: interconnected. Bad economic frame in Italy/Serie A + bad economic power at Milan + bad decisions = you got stuck 10th.

Have to agree with X-Offender on this. Best you can say is that FIAT backing has helped Juve (as it has done since I can remember). But, in itself, it does not entirely explain Juve's success. Much of the credit goes to Juve's management, Conte (who took the team from mid-table to league domination), and even Allegri (who built on what we had to reach a CL final).

Also, how about Roma? Or Lazio. Or Fiorentina. Or Napoli. Or any of the other team that ended the season ahead of us this year (or, for that matter, last year). These teams do not have nearly the same level of backing as Juve, and they have revenues lower than Milan. Yet they have managed to leverage what they had into successful result (well, certainly better than ours).

Bottom line, FIAT is *a* factor, but not the *only* factor. Not by a mile. And lack of FIAT backing does not even begin to explain our failure.

Not unexpected. Latest speculation says we may go for Donadoni. A couple of years ago I would have been rather unhappy (was not impressed by him with the NT or at Napoli), but IMHO he has done decently at Parma despite many challenges. Not my number one choice, but he may be OK.

I will buy "interconnected" and "part of the reason" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

Essien has officially joined Panathinaikos.

Since when have we discussed FIAT ever before?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, FFP prohibits FIAT from bankrolling Juve in the manner you are implying. That's the entire basis for R7's arguments in fact. That Silvio or his company Fininvest, (therefore it's the same with the Angelli's and their company FIAT) can't bankroll their clubs because of FFP.

My point is simple, Juve are in the same waters we're in, only they're run better. simple as that. The success of either parent company has nothing to do with that. The amount of losses we generate vs that of Juve has nothing to do with who's the financial backer, but it does have everything to do with who'/s managing those finances, or in our case, who's mismanaging them


This.

We came out of winning the CL and Juve came back from the abyss of Serie B. Within a few years we've managed to turn from European champions to mid-table Serie A side while Juve came from Serie B to be Italian and possible European champions while having to deal with the very same issues that we have to deal with. And while Galliani consistently whines about these drawbacks and never does anything to counteract them, Juve have made strides in overcoming those same setbacks by taking action


Once again, FIAT has nothing to do with how Juve are run far more smartly than us, just like at the end of the day, Fininvest has nothing to do with the fact that we're making nearly a 100m in losses each year. Actually they're the ones plugging that hole


Yep

Now that Carletto has given us his final answer, latest speculation is that we are after Mihajlovic, with Montella as an alternative (though we would have to pay 5M to Fiorentina to get him). Maybe Sarri or Spalletti. Probably not Emery (Berlu apparently wants an Italian) nor Brocchi.

This says that Galliani wants Mihajlovic, while Berlu wants Montella. Apparently they will decide by tomorrow (will believe that when I see it happening). The article also confirms that Emery is out, Donadoni is still an option, and Sarri and Brocchi also are a possibility (though less likely).

Apparently Napoli was also after Emery, but he has decided to stay with Seville.

Apparently, Samp after Pazzo