Mainly because the EPL and its best teams don't rely on English players. The last two sides to win CL from England, Utd and Chelsea, relied on Ronaldo and Drogba. Whereas Barca and Atleti/Real relied on their Spanish core and Bayern on their German.

The English squad, while not abominable, is so far off what it's been in the even recent past it's almost sad to see. I look at that squad and it is just so below even an England team from a decade ago.



Germany and Uruguay. Stand to pocket £750 if I'm right!



Germany ALWAYS make the semis in pretty much every tournament, and I agree that Italy did very well to make that final. Just think other nations are even stronger today and by Italy's normal standards their current team isn't really that special.



All true but don't use an unbeaten record as evidence of a team's strength (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



Spain were inexperienced in 2008 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Belgium are very very strong and I think they can do real damage in this tournament.



Beats arguing over Milan (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I was just making a sort of joke because your expectations are to not lose rather than to win.

With regards to the game in 2012, Italy had a bag of chances, not to mention hitting the post once or twice. Plus, I think that England defence was better than this one imo. John Terry and Ashley Cole imo still should be in there as they're better defenders (note my enphasis on defenders) than Baines and Jagielka (did I spell that correctly?). Not to mention that in the Euros Hodgson was basically playing to lines of defence. Young was more pre-occupied with covering Abate's runs than actually trying to do anything attack-wise for example, I don't really think England's new, young and exciting (as per the advertising done by the English pundits) players will really want to put in all that work. Yes, they're trying to go in the Liverpool direction but there was one big flaw with Liverpool this season, their defending was absolutely horrible.

Agreed on that 2nd bit about La Liga and the EPL


True, but it's also true that most of the English players were also important parts of those squads that won the CL.


Hope you don't win! I want Italy in there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


But as I mentioned before it's not really all about the names, it's how the team gels and works together. Italy in 06 were far from the best team in that tournament. the 2002 squad were miles ahead of that 06 one and this current one imo.


I still think it's an important factor, not to mention that Prandelli has only had 2 losses in competitive games throughout his tenure as coach of the NT


I don't think they had as much young raw talent as Belgium currently do, most of their players were established and were winning CLs with their club. But agree that in 2008 they were considered a team of underachievers and really banished that stereotype


It sure does (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Even if they don't sell anyone it still wouldn't matter. When a club overachieves one season, the next season players are drained of motivation and energy, morally and physically. Milan in 2007 and Inter in 2010 are prime examples of that.

Fair enough. I have to be honest and realistic about expectations though. To me, it would be a successful World Cup if we make the round of 16. Ro16 isn't special, but it would be a big achievement to get out of that group.

I personally think both England and Italy will qualify. That first game will obviously be a draw but I think both teams can do well against the South Americans, Especially if Suarez isn't fit and Cavani is in his PSG form

Whoever gets out of this group will get to the quarters imo unless they f@ck up big time in the round of 16 against a team from group C

Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

How long do you think it will take before Atleti lose their coach as well?

They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club? Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).

You're damned if you have realistic expectations & you're damned if you want them to do well.

The thing is, it feels like England pundits and the majority of fans are continually trying to play down their chances, but underneath the surface you can almost feel like that constant need they have to restrict themselves from overhyping their team, their young talent (they're sill doing this a lot anyway).

So it mostly feels like they're fake trying to underplay everything when it comes to England atm, but you know that underneath all that there's that English reporter just screaming on the inside to stir things up, declare them as world beaters and then start rubbing his hands gleefully at the prospect bashing and slamming them down when they return home as quarter finalists once again

Ribery out of the WC.

Falcao, Ribery...................... Oxlade Chamberlain

First 2 are, in my opinion, hilariously overrated players.

What can we actually say? Saying we can get out of a pretty tough group is a realistic expectation for this team, however that's apparently downplaying. Yet should anyone suggest they could do more than that are overrating them and calling them World Beaters?

I have no idea what we're even meant to say without being criticised & people thinking there's some pre-agenda (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

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Also, agreed on Ribery, almost never turns up in big games.

Agreed about Ribery as well. One of the most overrated players currently playing.