Nah, I think they have problems in defence and Mario goes too hot and cold to rely on. I personally can't see them getting past Brazil in the quarters if they don't win their group

Btw, what do you think about that line-up I posted? Do you agree with kurt that it's too slow and England's kick and rush players will relish it?

Too slow? How? Besides Pirlo, you've got three hard-working MFs, plus Abate and De Sciglio that offer enough cover, as well as lots of creativity. I think it's a very balanced line-up. Don't know how Verratti will fare as AM, but I can totally see it working.

Agreed.

I've been listening a lot to English pundits as of late to try to gouge what the general consensus is about the Italy game.

Obviously they're all wary of it, but their biggest pre-occupation is Pirlo. All they talk about is man-marking Pirlo to not let him get so much of the ball and run the game as he did in 2012. The flaw in that is that they have to get one of their strikers to do it (mentioning Danny Wellbeck atm). And they're also forgetting that Italy have 3 other great mids in there who can be as good or better on the ball than any of their midfielders. Don't know if Prandelli was experimenting yesterday by removing Pirlo from that position to have a plan B if somehow they manage to shackle him, that's what I'm hoping at least.

And I think Verratti can be great there, he's not slow, he's great at making those little incisive passes in tight spaces as well. I don't really get why they compare him to Pirlo, totally different kind of player. The only thing that worries me about them is they tend to like occupying the same areas on the pitch, they were both part of the midfield 3 yesterday and sort of got in each other's way on certain occasions. Having Verratti as the AM would ensure that he won't get in Pirlo's way in that regard

Yeah exactly, they couldn't beat us in the Euros so it works for us.

Given the current weakness of Italian players and Serie A in comparison with far stronger teams of the past, this Italy is a pale shadow of teams from years gone by.

Serie A is pretty mediocre and far weaker than so many other of its peer leagues. And that's where the players are all coming from, PSG goalie aside.

I think they will really struggle in this world cup.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I've got well over my hatred of them re: Euro 2008 qualification. Although I will mind being proven wrong if it means I lose my bet ha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

"couldn't beat us" is a quote that speaks for itself and the level of ambition the English have for this game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In all seriousness though Italy outclassed England in the Euros and had they advanced it would have been a huge injustice. In all honesty Italy should have won that game in the 90 minutes.

But I don't really get what your initial point was about pace... I'm supposing you meant that Italy's lack of pace would be beneficial for England. But in what way? Since going by your latest comment you don't expect to win, just to not lose

I really don't think the state of the domestic league has much baring here though, was the league any better in 2012, or even in 2006 when it was already going down hill not to mention all the corruption that had just been revealed?

Personally I think this side is as good as the 2006 one, probably better as a collective because that squad had some real stinkers thanks to Lippi and his obsession with Palermo players

Yes that Italy side had bigger names in defence like Canna, Nesta and Zambro, while Rino was probably in the middle of having 2 of his best seasons. but other than that. Totti and Del Piero were both irrelevant, Totti was a starter but I always saw him as a peripheral figure in the team, there was Camoranesi, Perrotta, Grosso, Gila, Iaquinta, etc all starting regularly in that world cup.

He's the exact same player as Modric. Identical style, identical technique. Italy have a gem in their hands. Definitely gonna become a football great, if he already isn't.



Um, like Han said, the quality of the league has really got nothing to do here. England have the best league in the world yet their NT is pretty average currently compared to other powerhouses.

I think Italy have about 14-15 very good players in there, who know each-other well. Their midfield is as good as Germany's and Spain's IMO. I honestly think you're underestimating them.

Errrr no, England have the most competitive league of the big 3, not the best. Didn't you see how their clubs struggled in ALL European competitions last season?

Spain, now, is the best league, thanks to having 3 titans challenging for the title and a very strong Bilbao.

I've never been fond of Spain on any level but anyone calling the EPL stronger than La Liga currently, is, well, absolutely potty! And I mean that fondly of course (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



We shall see but I stand by my last 4 prediction. I think Italy are poor and it'll be reflected in their world cup.

England have had an all English final in the CL, have had 2 teams winning the CL since the last 2 world cups (2006 - now), and always have at least one club representing the league in the semi finals. How is that poor?

Yet in every one of those WCs the English side has just been shameful in their showings imo

Spain has 2 giants and an overall poor league where the other teams struggle to stay financially afloat each year. Atletico had a massive season thanks to their coach who made them a strong unit. But this is a side who has already been picked off of its best players. And that's just 2 or 3 who are really class, the rest are all pretty average who were part of a great collective, once tha collective is picked apart they won't be that great.


Can you explain how this side is poor?

This is a side that got to the Euro finals 2 years ago, did very well in the confed cup just last summer, went through their group undefeated and qualified with 2 games to spare.

No they don't have the star names Brazil, Spain and Argentina have. I just don't get where that poor tag comes from. But make no mistake, Italy do their best when they're underestimated and derided by the international media, and I seriously hope everyone, especially the English think the same as you do

If you can quote my saying the EPL is poor I'll be interested to see it.



I agree, hence the league has become more competitive and the big 2 are now big 3, borderline 4. And you will have noticed I haven't got Spain as a semifinalist.




Got to the Euro finals 2 years ago? What do you mean? As for their group, it was awful. A completely hideous Czech Rep (their great teams are something of the past now) and a rather weak Denmark. Even a half decent team could have won that group with something to spare.



I don't rate Spain or Argentina any more than I do Italy.

But make no mistake, they'll beat England. Uruguay and Italy will go through from that group.

Yeah, but the game was 0-0. Did I say we would win? No. Did I say we would draw? No. I just think a lack of pace certainly helps England. Italy didn't have any pace at the Euros and it helped. They couldn't get in behind, they didn't have players that would run at us. It was shots from distance or them trying to play the ball through our defence and not being able to. I don't really know what you expect me to say. One minute you say Italy are better than England, the next you find it odd I think us not losing is good thing.

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jun 5 2014, 11:24 PM

Sorry, that poor comment on Italy was still gnawing at my mind so I wrote it there with regards to my bit on the EPL.

No you didn't say it was poor, but you implied that it was going through a rough patch. My point was that during the last 2 WCs, English teams have been great in Europe but were still absolute pish (as you Scottish laddies would say) in every major tournament they played


But really, during Spain's last major 3 tournament wins there were only really 2 teams in the thing, Atletico have only really emerged as a force over these past 2 seasons or so and I personally think it will end with this season as them selling their best players now will spell the end of them imo

Sorry, forgot your predictions. Belgium, Brazil, and who were the other 2?


Euro 2012 runners up was a big achievement imo, especially for a side that no one really touted as a possible challenger. And once they rolled up against Germany were completely written off. I think having a momentum in competitive tournaments is a good indication of how a side will perform imo

And HEY NOW, Malta was in that group!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But seriously, when are these qualifying groups really that hard? But even the biggest team sometimes still manage to flounder


Nah, rating Belgium a totally inexperienced side but not Spain or Argentina? I think Spain will still do seriously well, I don't think they'll win it but I can see them in the semis easily. Argentina are a toss up but the talent they have is unquestionable.


lol so we're arguing whether Italy are good or not, but the person who thinks they're poor predicts that they'll beat England and the person who thinks they're good predicts that they won't beat England. What a pair we make (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Exactly. Except for Barça and Madrid, the rest are all Europa League level. Atletico doesn't even count cos next season they'll be a former shadow of this season's side. Mark my words. Seasons like this happen only once in a lifetime for clubs like Atletico.

It's only happening to Atletico because Chelsea have just taken their best 4 players! I now agree Atleti are unlikely to sustain this next season simply because no team on earth could cope with their star striker, goalie, midfielder and LB all leaving.

And that's without even mentioning Miranda and Turan who'll probably move too.

Shame, they've become prey to the vultures.