I read that as "Both hot but Montolivo is hotter" first time through. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Eh, all kinds of doohickeys float up in Pato's thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) No wonder it's 85 pages long. Not complaining!

An opinion can be wrong if you claim a false statement is an opinion.

You're mixing up factual comments with subjective analysis.

As I said to Kurt, if someone says Messi is quite simply a rubbish footballer then that is plain wrong. It's not an opinion, it is a fact that Messi is not a rubbish footballer. Indeed, in the past I didn't really rate him that highly myself because every time I'd seen him, I was underwhelmed. But rather than say 'in my opinion he isn't that good' I said 'every time I've seen him I've been underwhelmed'. The first would be a silly view to have, the second an accurate analysis of what I'd witnessed. Mainly because in the few matches I'd seen he hadn't done much.

Likewise the sky is not pink, and if anyone says that in their opinion it is, they have extremely poor mental health. It is a fact the sky is blue. Unless you are colour blind in which case the sky is whatever colour you see. But factually culture tells us it is blue. Evidence proves that. And someone who is colourblind will accept it, if unable to see it for themselves. But they wouldn't say the opinion of 6 billion other people is wrong.

Inalienable truths are facts - don't mix them up with opinions.

It's actually 225 pages long.

Thanks for the info, I was wondering this while typing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) I actually have the forum set to show 40 posts per page (in the options), so for me the page count is always lower. 85 in this case.

That's a pretty arrogant view of things.

So what if I think Messi is rubbish for example? That's my view and oppinion you can think I'm insane all you want but at the end of the day you're still not going to change my mind about it no matter how much you argue with me.

Then I'd say you were wrong...














...unless you're talking of his ability in comparison to Ronaldo. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Dec 17 2012, 06:34 PM

Then your opinion would be worthless.

My view isn't arrogant in the slightest, to suggest 'in my opinion the sky is pink' is a quite absurd bedrock to build your argument from. It's a fact it isn't pink - like me saying 'in my opinion water isn't essential for life on earth'. That would be a load of crap - not an opinion, but a false statement masquerading as one.

If you think Messi is rubbish then quite simply your opinion is just the same - rubbish.

There are facts, and there are opinions.

I can live with the sky and water thing, but not about Messi.

What if I don't like the type of player he is? The level of the league he plays in? The players he has around him? His international record?

If my oppinion is that he's not as great as people make him out to be then who are you to tell me my oppinion is rubbish simply because you view something as being "fact"?

Then you really shouldn't have used the sky originally as some kind of 'opinion' old boy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



I don't like him especially either but if you're a football fan, which you clearly are, and you actually think a man who has broken Muller's record is rubbish then there is literally no argument you can make which validates such a stupid comment.

But curiously you are now trying to subtly shift your argument from 'rubbish' to 'disliking the type of player' and 'he's not as great as his reputation'. THOSE are valid opinions and views.

But to call him 'rubbish' would undermine every single opinion you've ever held about anything.

The keyword being here "as great as". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Few, if any, will deny that Messi is a good player.

Those few would be fools.

I was never a fan of Messi, as most around here know - I'm a Ron man all the way. But in the way the sky is blue and the grass is green, it is a fact that Messi is not 'rubbish'.

Yup I was being gracious, in not labeling them fools. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Totally agree with what you said above.

Have you ever heard of exxagerating a bit to get your point accross? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Never thought we'd end up having a discussion on the meaning of opinions versus facts of life. In regards to the sky, maybe it's sunset and it's got that pink hue going on, would it be so much of a stretch if someone's opinion on that shade of pink is "hot pink"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As for Messi, don't think that I do personally think these things, because I certainly don't. But so what if someone says that he's rubbish? Would I think that person is stupid? Sure, but if that is truely how that person feels I can argue with him until I'm blue in the face and still he wouldn't change his opinion on Messi. That's my point.

Just like me and kurt can argue on the Napoli squad vs our squad issue until the end of the world (which conveniently is next Friday (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ) and still we won't change each other's opinion on the issue at the end of the day

I agree completely that you can't change someone's mind in the majority of cases. But if they think Messi is rubbish and they are a true football fan then I wouldn't take a single word they ever said about anything else seriously ever again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I like your wee point about the sky haha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But I wouldn't say I exaggerated anywhere tbh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(PS Han what is up with your spelling these days?)