So, this will most probably be the line-up against Juventus: Abbiati; Abate, Nesta, Thiago Silva, Mesbah; Nocerino, Van Bommel, Muntari; Emanuelson; Pato, Robinho.

Boateng should recover, but he'll start from the bench.

the movement of the front 3 should be interesting....

When did you become so slow?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)


You say that, I ask you how many times that's happened, and you reply "how should I know"?! then don't make claims about things you don't know. I know you think that helps your point, but really, it doesn't.


OK Einstein.

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Feb 23 2012, 05:57 PM

Alright, first of all, I thought you asked how many times has it happened in the past 4-5 years at Milan in general, not only for Pato. Hence my response. But still, does it really matter? When something happens too often you lose count of it and must look at statistics in order to get an answer. And for Pato it's happened way too often. Everyone that follows Milan regularly knows about it. 90% of his injuries have been of muscular nature.

I don't get the point of this either way. Why does it matter that he signals to come off when he feels the twinge in his muscle? He obviously knows when it's something wrong and he needs to come off.

Would you be happier if he troops on and makes it 10 times worse than it already is?

I remember one incident with Gattuso, he had a knee injury during a game and stayed on, everyone thought it was nothing until we later founf out that he'd seriously screwed it up.

I'm not saying that han, I'm not saying that at all. His injuries are only due to the rushed growth MilanLab forced on his muscles over the past 2-3 years. However, the fear of being injured might be a catalyst. That's why, as soon as he feels a little disturbance, he inevitably thinks of the worst and this only aggravates the problem. It was the same with Ambrosini. People kept saying his injuries were mostly psychological. I remember very well, because I used to watch Milan Channel very often back then. In the end, it all boils down to the player's mental strength. You may all think of it as a sorry excuse, but personally, I think there is some truth in it.

So you think he's getting more injured because he's afraid of being injured?

No,his injury is due to either Milanlab,and the fact that he's injury prone too,they both factor into it.The mental stength of someone has nothing to do with recurring injuries,I for one would salute Pato for his perseverence.He's being injured again and again,and then working his way up to be injured again,now if that isn't depressing,I don't know what is.Ofcourse,the guy isn't getting paid,and stuff,and it's his job.But,as an athelete,it's a very process to pass by.Specially,if you really love the thing you're doing.It really is a tough test,after all the mess he passed through.

You know,I don't really get how thinking about the injury or being careful about it would cause the injury.Unless,you provide with an article to support your claims.But,as far as I know it if he's having muscular problems,then I just can't see how psychology can factor into it.We've spoken 100x about his muscular problems...But,idk if you just want to blame the player too.For example,Boateng is getting recurrent injuries as well atm.Could it be that rushing him back like that,and him performing at 100percent factored in his current injury?A sure thing is that MilanLab doesn't handle things quite well,and there is also the factor of luck,but this has been happening for some years too.Will research about the relation of psychology with injuries atm to make things more clear.


EDIT:Ok,so I'm reading this article about your point,how psychology affects injuries,and here is what I have:


So,there has been several models,and the most inflential was Williams and Andersen’s (1998) “stressinjury model” that proposes to divide psychological risk factors into three main categories: personality factors,
history of stressors, and coping resources.

Hypotheses:
• Is it possible that personality variables, such as high
somatic trait anxiety(related to physical responses such as sweating,muscular tension etc...), stress susceptibility and psychic trait anxiety, which influence the risk of injury among
soccer players?

• There are a number of coping strategies, such as high
levels of worry, self-blame, and behavioral disengagement
that will significantly influence a soccer player’s
risk of becoming injured.
• The players, who incurred an injury, will experience a
significantly higher level of daily hassles than the players
who did not incurred an injury.


So,to try and prove the pypotheses,they will follow some methods,experiments if you'd like to call them:

Method/Experiment for the study:

Forty eight male soccer players competing on 3 different teams at a competitive level in Sweden (division 4 – 6,
middle – low league), who ranged in age from +16 to 36 years (M = 22 years) were involved in the study. The players reported to practice 2 – 3 times a week and play weekly games (April – October). Most of the players have been playing soccer regularly for approximately 10 – 12 years.



They had to do several measurments,I'll summarize them below:

Football Worry Scale(2003):Measure the athlete's competitive worry by survey.Questions include stuff such as fear of injury,fear of social evalution(what other people might think of you),as well as other stuff(16) not mentioned in the article.

Swedish universities Scales of Personality (SSP):Also,has questions such as social disrability,verbal trait agression,physical trait agression...

Life Events Survey for Collegiate Athletes (LESCA):was used to measure an athlete’s life history stressors to test how it might be related to injuries as well.Test had outcomes ranging from -4(extremly negative) to +4(extemely positive).


Daily Hassles Scale:Unlike the other,this one is used to measure the daily problems of the athlete.

Brief COPE:Was used to measure how the athlete copes with stressors.Options were:selfblame,self-distraction, active coping, denial, substance use, use of emotional support, use of instrumental support,
behavioral disengagement,planning, humor, and religion.

Procedure:Not really essential to the topic,they just stayed took the information of injuries with other amounts of statistics as well such as goals scored etc...And the statistical anlysis showed:

Results for subsequent Analysis showed that the group of injured players compared to non-injured players had a significantly higher level of somatic trait anxiety,psychic trait anxiety,stress susceptibility,and trait irritability.A model which included self-blame and acceptance could explain 14.6% of the total variance of injury occurrence.

Hypotheses 1:Results actually showed that injured athletes had a significantly higher level of somatic trait anxiety and psychic trait anxiety in comparison to non-injured players.A possible explanation to the effect of the athletes that have somatic anxiety is that they deal with situations as stressful so their peripheral ability decreases leading to the injuries.Peripheral ability has to do with coordination of body movements as well as autonomic movements.

Hypotheses 2:The results showed that injured players used the coping strategies, behavioral disengagement and self blame,more frequently than the players in the non – injured group.It was concluded that they are related to the injuries,and that they are "bad" way to handle stressors.A statistic showed that coping variables acceptance and self-blame could explain 14.6% of the total variance of injury when seen collectively.An important thing as well is that sometimes the coping variables work in another matter.The article states that is sometimes better to accept stressors as they,but in other cases,it would be called as an "ineffective way" to deal with those stressors.

Hypothesis 3:There was an old study that showed that their is indeed a relation between negative life event stresses,and injuries.But,it wasn't found in this study because of the "younger age" athlete's studies.

Limitations of the study:The fact that they had only 48 participants,and they could follow only weekly the reports,because they had several teams to handle.

Conclusion:(Straight from the article)

The current study found a number of significant psychological predictors that increase the injury risk among adult
male soccer players. Although the two regression models explain several of the injuries that occurred, the results also show both similar and different findings, compared to previous research. One explanation could be that the
current study is based on an adult population, while previous research focuses more on younger soccer players
(Rogers and Landers, 2005). One implication for both players and coaches is to be aware of identified variables
and their impact on injury risk in order to prevent sport injuries. Further research could investigate how daily
hassle affects injury risk among soccer players in a larger sample and at more highly competitive levels as well as
studying both male and female players. It would also be interesting if further research, with knowledge from previous
studies, could design an intervention based on oneexperimental and one control group, to investigate the
possibility of using mental skills training to prevent sports injuries. Previous research has shown positive results
regarding adult soccer players at risk , but not involving a low-risk soccer population.Therefore, a research design including non-risk players will enhance the research area even more.


MY conclusion:Yes,it seems there has been some good studies regarding this manner.And,although I still haven't found 100 percent how psychology can affect physical performance...I guess I'll research that when I have time for it.(finals etc...)But,according to the current studies,pyschology may affect injuries.And,it may be a cycle Pato has entered.Pato didn't use to get injured at Internacional(as far as my research goes),and in his first few seasons at milan(as far as my memory goes).This gives those options:
a-Milanlab interfered with Pato's muscular growth which led to some problems.
b-Pato got a muscular injury because he couldn't handle playing at a top leauge yet(I desperatly need statistics of his injuries to work with here...)Maybe,one his first injuries came after playing a series of straight games?This muscle injury could have led Pato to develop some anxiety due to those stressors,and so he didn't know how to handle these injuries.

Now,his muscular problems wouldn't have started if it wasn't for the incapability of Milanlab,and the coach of dealing with the player at the first place,so I'm choosing to blame Milanlab anyway(that part was a joke ;p).Now,even if Pato developed some anxiety stresses,there should be a question posed here.Can't those stresses be handled as well?I'm sure with our current advancments in medicine and psychology everything has a solution.I'll be looking forward to see in the future for a better final conclusion.Will Pato be sold to another club that will able to handle his problems better?Or will his anxiety problems ruin his career?Interesting.

This post has been edited by William405: Feb 23 2012, 09:20 PM

For crying out loud, I've never said he gets injured because he's afraid of getting injured. How did you come up with that? I explicitly stated in my previous post that "his injuries are only due to the rushed growth MilanLab forced on his muscles over the past 2-3 years". What I'm trying to say (and I'm bewildered that you still haven't grasped it) is that his fear of getting injured might be a contributing (psychological) factor that influences his overall injury proneness. Maybe it's bullshit, maybe there's some truth in it. You're free to form your own judgment. I'm not trying to impose this hypothesis on anyone.

And that's about it. I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over again.

X-off,read my previous post.Though it was what you were implying,and I'm sorry I made "fun of it",but the idea didn't sound really practical to me,sorry.Still,the idea isn't even 100percent proved to.Maybe,I read your post too fast,skipped to the "it's Pato's fault part" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ,but sorry again...I hope you accept my apology in the form of the research I made (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ( I know boring...;p)

Okay X-O, and how much time did Ambro get to shake these psychological problems?

OK fair enough. since you're tired of arguing (so am I).

Let's wait and see how he does in this game, playing as a starter with Robs and no Ibra. that's the kind of occasion he might take advantage of.

A decade give or take.

Yet the club still stood by him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Not expecting too much myself, he's just coming off injury so he'll be rusty. But I expect him to score should a chance fall to him

It's OK, I wasn't offended or anything. I'm just trying to provide an alternative explanation to Pato's peculiar situation.



Because nobody was willing to spend €30 million for him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Matri: "Thiago Silva difficult to over come? Barzagli is strong as well"









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