Seedorf didn't play the second game, actually.



Real Madrid haven't passed the first knock-out round since 2005. It's not like Arsenal did some miracle by eliminating them. Even Lyon did it last year.

Oh Christ, it's always something isn't it? Read my whole post again, carefully.

By name yes you have a point, as I did say that they choked when it came to a really big name, and they were strong in their domestic league as well, but Real Madrid have been shooting themselves in the foot in the CL for I don't know how long now. When was the last time they actually had a good run of results in that competition?

I don't care whether they dominated La Liga or not. Beating Real Madrid in Europe isn't a huge accomplishment nowadays.

Well that's easy. Fact of the matter is that the quality of a team isn't always reflected in the CL. If it had, Juventus would have won the 1997 CL final with ease, the Arsenal side of 2002-2005 would have won at least one trophy (or at least got to a final), Mourinho's Chelsea would have done the same.
Don't you find it a bit strange that in the, say, 2007 final neither of the finalists finished in the top two of their domestic league?

All the teams you mentioned have had strong runs in the past few years in the competition, Real have been out of it for quite a while.

Liverpool and Milan made the 07 final because they made it the sole focus of their entire season.

So, if Milan win the CL in 2007 while finishing 4th in their domestic league while Real go out in the 1/8-finals while winning their domestic league, does that suggest that Real are a poor team that any team could beat? I'd say not.

I don't think so honestly. I think beating Milan or Real Madrid at any time is a big achievment. Maybe Milan were weaker then 2007 (for sure), but that doesn't matter at the end. What matters is the result and the fact that Arsenal eliminated the defending champion.

All right, here's a hypothetical question for you all: In 2008 Barcelona reached the CL semi-final. Would you agree that beating that Barcelona side would be a big achievment? And if so, how is it not a big achievment to beat the team who won the league Barca were participating in during the same season?

Who's the question for?

Anyone who insists that Roma eliminating Real Madrid with a 4-2 aggregate score-line in 2008 isn't really a big achievment at all because Real Madrid for some reasons lose their status as a big team whenever they play in the CL.

Oh, so, I'll pass.

Alot of people don't like Madrid, that's all it boils down to, in my opinion. When Madrid lose, some like to put on the "no surprise to me, Madrid aren't even that good" attitude, mocking them in a way.

@Locke: I actually sorta think that over the past 4-5 years Milan and Arsenal were pretty much on the same boat. So you don't have to defend your club by attacking mine. The difference is Milan still had champions who when all the stars aligned could suddenly turn that team into the Incredible Hulk. Arsenal..not so much. If the game plan worked all was well...else they crumbled. Milan were exactly the same - the stars aligned 2 times out of 10..one of those times was 2007.

Arsenal just sold/farmed out their champions. And what's more, there's not the slightest hint of that changing. Look at Milan this year - the fans raised the same kind of noise that Arsenal fans have been raising for 3 years now, and the results are here. Milan land Ibra, Arsenal land Chamakh!! A team that had Thierry Henry leading the front line, now has Chamakh??!!! A team that had Vieira marshalling the mid-field now has Song/Diaby ??!!

Before you say Borriello - that was one season..and he had R80, Pato and Pirlo supporting him.

I know none of the great Arsenal players were stars when they came in, but they had quality..and they had stalwarts to look up to. But you have to admit there's nothing there now. Wenger says Wilshere should learn from Fabregas??!! Fabregas is a great player, but how long does Wenger think he's gonna stay in Arsenal? At least it sounds a lot less ridiculous when we said Pato can learn from R99. Or that Thiago Silva can learn from Nesta.

Do you honestly think Fabregas has developed the mental maturity to become a mentor? He's just a kid albeit a very level-headed talented one.

Heck Fab probably wants to go to Barca so he can learn from Iniesta and Xavi.

Spartak beat Zilina 3-0 in the early game, what happened to the awesome kits Spartak sed to wear? They're in boring red and white now!

Flappyhandski in goal to replace Almunia for Arsenal tonight because he's injured.

EDIT: One floodlight has gone out in the Arsenal game, if a 2nd goes out the game is off.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Sep 28 2010, 07:41 PM