My point is that it's hard to take posts - anyone's - seriously when they make wild accusatioins or claims without citing any references. For all we know, it could be the figment of the poster's imagination or something they make up to look like it came from some other website. Hard sources such as interviews, newspaper or website interviews, video clips, etc, allow one to have a factual (rather than a 'because that's the way i want it to be in my reality) basis for claims.

With all due respect....
I don't agree with you state. I believe the voice of the people has a lot of power. You/locke/others may believe that silvio is some god who has complete control of the club and what he says goes and we as fans have to bow down and respect it.


I believe what we as fans think, very much has an effect on the out come of club decisions. The Kaka transfer to city proves my point.


Our club recieves most of its revenue based on season ticket sales/ television deals/ player shirt sales and merchandising sales. Who are the demanders for such products? Us as fans. Without us, the club will end up dying.

I know you will not agree with me because its not hard proved evidence that fans are needed for a club to survive or that we as fans have any power or even that the deal between kaka and mancity was called off because of our outrage worldwide and from the tifosi in milan.

But then again you are one who has complete faith and trust in this board and will always defend them no matter how bad things look because of their past so there is no point in further discussing things with you. Like I said earlier, 2 different concepts of football that will never agree.

My post above was directed to the board in general in good faith because, well, if you're in high school or college and have to write a paper (for example) or have to write reports for work (for example) after college, the people who read said reports generally expect you to provide sources for your statements.

As for the post quoted above....wow.

Goodness. Now you're actually lying.

I have never once stated that I have complete faith and trust in the board. You seem to want to pigeonhole me into a mindset you can conveniently ridicule because I question some of the statements you make because you provide absolutely no backup other than 'I feel this way so all fans should feel this way'. That's not proof.

As for the club's revenues, I know perfectly well where they come from because I actually took the trouble to read the club's financial statements. Have you done the same? Do you understand a balance sheet or an operating statement?

As for the whole Kaka saga, you've shown nothing at all proving a link between the popular outcry against the City transfer and Kaka staying at the club.

If you really want I can go through the forum and provide statements you've said where: this board has been here for the last 20 years and other statements such as they know what thier doing they've brought this club to its successes.

I"m not writing a paper for a college, i'm sharing my opinion with my fellow milan fans. Yes i have looked at where the club revenues do come from because its my dream to take over this club one day as coach. I may have not been knowledgebale in the past but I think I have a fairly good grip on how this club operates.

About the kaka saga, unless its from silvio's mouth, you dont believe it. I can provide pictures but i dont think thats enough for you.

I'll try taking you seriously one more time but that's it.

1. I've never ever hinted at Silvio being "some god". Never. I don't know where you even have that from.

2. Iv'e said numerous times that a change of manager is needed, but I think it should be a decent, civil goodbye to a coach who has brought this clubs to a great deal more success than what I dare say most milanistas would even dream for before he arrived (I'm talking about the Zaccharoni/Maldini era here).

3. The opinion of the fans have almost no say in how a club is run. If that was the case then Eboue would be on a ship back to the Ivory Coast as we speak. Sometimes a huge protest from the fans can make a small difference, but do you think Berlusconi will fire Gallani and Ancelotti because the fans are upset with them? No. Never.

4. My original point was that it's a completely pointless gesture to apologise to Maldini on behalf of all Milan fans.
It's both prepostorous and masochistic, and that is a very, very bad combination.

I respect your opinion locke but i disagree with you. Friends? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Certainly not enemies, but I'd like you to answer my points, ok? I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say on these issues.

Blue, you're wrong. I suggest you go through and find quotes in which I've said that management is perfect.

Clearly someone who was against both the Ronaldinho and Beckham transfers has a problem with the club's management and I was outspoken against both. I suggest you look at that too. I also suggest you look at my posts in the Bremen match thread in which I called for a change in management.

I'm not sure you do have a grip on how the club operates. what's the percentage of revenue from tv? From ticket sales? From sponsorships? From retail (ie jersey) sales? What are the general operatiing costs? What's the difference between the two? What is the club's 'reserve' by the way (mentioned in another thread)? This isn't the EPL. Milan doesn't HAVE one. There is a bench and there's the primavera. There aren't reserves.

We are ALL welcome to our opinions here - even people who call me a racist are welcome to say that, no matter how completely offensive it is to me personally - but you often seem to present your opinion as the only possible fact because, well, you know stuff (but then don't say how you know it or where you learned it from). And yes, I'll challenge that and I've every right to do it just as you have a right to state whatever you like.

Really? Here i was thinking you and some others were pissed off that I am even a part of this forum. But sure if you really want, i'll answer them.


1) I wasn't directly saying you said such a thing quote on quote. But that is the general message portraying and I am just reflecting from what you are stating.

2) Agree entirely, but me personally have lost a lot of that respect and love for him. In my eyes hes not the coach he was and would like him sacked asap.

3) I disagree, arsenal is a different factor because the fans love wenger to death. Right now I dont think any milanfan is happy with carlo or the way the club has proceeded this season. Thats why I believe, if we all stand up things will change. No galliani and carlo won't get fired because of complaints but they will be reviewed if the fans keep complaining. There are good reasons taht justify our claims.

4) sure agree. But i still think we as fans should have stood against a lot of stuff this management has done in the last 3 years.

I know milan doesn't have a reserve, I never said that. If they did we would be a much better club. People who i've called reserves out of habit is the players who don't get much playing time. I could go into detail of exact numbers why is that necessary when my point isn't even with the numbers but who provides the numbers.

fans= part of clubs revenue=fact (challenge this if you wish)

The point that we are 31 million in debt and beckham was brought in to hopefully reduce this is an example by we as fans worldwide would be keen on having his jersey and add revenue to the club. But sorry I dont have a quote on that directly from silvio, so just ignore this statement. I have no problem with you challenging my posts but I have a problem with you denying my and other people's opinion as unjustified or harsh or undeserved. Its out opinion on an open minded forum, so i dont really see the point in labeling it... Are you trying to change the way we think...???

I think alot of what R7 and faith in the management is b0ll0cks (sorry man had to use you as an example, no hard feelings (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) but I have never said r7 you are not critical enough or r7 what you say about management is not deserved.

Everything, unless i post a source is opinion, which you dont have to read if you dont wish to.

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Feb 27 2009, 11:22 PM

No. Actually we're not 31 million in debt. We posted a 31 million operating loss and that is not the same thing as a debt. You may want to relook the things you've read up on.

I'm not pissed off at you, I just find it annoying to be misunderstood and misquoted.

1. & 2., not much more to say really.

3. I think I'll deal with Arsenal perspectives on this forum. Iv'e earlier said that if we miss out on CL football next year then Wenger has to go, and even if we scrape to a fourth-placed, trophyless then his position in the club needs to be totally reconsidered.

The rest of 3 & 4. You talk a lot about fans taking action. How, excactly? Stand outside Milanello hollering abuse at the board? Spamming acmilan.it with hate mail? Trying to assasinate Gallani?

So tell me, whose pockets do those 32 million come out of? If we assume at the beginning of the season that we are going to make X amount of profit by the end of the season and we put that as our budget (after all expenses in account, with the money left over) and we dont reach the planned amount, that is our club losing 32 million in our budget. If we had spent our budget completely we would be in 32 million debt. You can call it operating loss in the sense that our club still has cash in the bank and hasn't spent the entire budget. But if we still have cash and had planned to spend the budget come summer, we are 32 million short. Whose pocket is that coming out of? Silvio's or the banks. That is now considered debt, unless you want to cut our budget short by 32 million then fine i will accept it as operation loss.

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Feb 28 2009, 12:52 AM

No, fraid not. you may want to take some financial management courses, but you're still not understanding the difference between an operating loss (we spent more than we earned in a year) versus a debt (we don't have money to pay the bills). And in a big multinational, you can rest assured that there are contingencies for operating losses as well as other assets (for example endowments and other investments) in place to cover operating losses. AC Milan is a corporation with its own board of governors and articles of incorporation and its own separate assets. Granted, most of the directors are members of the Berlusconi family and the club is a subsidiary of Fininvest but the fact remains that an operating loss is not the same as a debt. The operating loss is not coming out of Berlusconi's pocket.

From some of the stuff I've heard from Arsenal fans, he'll be lucky if he ends up on a ship to CIV..

And what's all this talk!? In the Maldini thread!? Miss Thelis will not be happy.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Feb 28 2009, 01:10 AM