Villa certainly deserved to win but it's not Arsenal's fault that they could not convert their chances.

Kurt... how can you whine about about the ref, he was great... damn the Birmingham Blues!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by dst: Dec 27 2008, 02:04 PM

The fact that he IS one means we're not being 'unclassy' by singing it. His actions during and after the match were an absoloute disgrace. He thought you deserved to win? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


No, it's not their fault, I never said it was, I just said we deserved to win.

He had a good game? He was one of the better refs this season, I won't deny that. But even as somebody who has no refereeing badges, I know when red cards occur, one of which being a last man foul. Gallas fouled Gabby from behind, in the box, as last man.. and nothing but a penalty? Don't be silly.

Certainly more confident of pushing on now, we battered Arsenal home and away, makings of a good side that.

Arsenal really need a better defense and midfield. We bullied them in the middle which is why we dominated in the game, then we scored in the 92nd minute and they had 3 defenders in their own box? Madness. In my opinion Wenger doesn't know how to spot good defenders, he inherited one of the best defenses English football has ever seen, pretty much every defender he has bought - CBs anyway - have been nowhere near good enough for top 4 material.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Dec 27 2008, 02:51 PM

Here's the post-match interview.


'We became nervous in getting over the line'
On the performance...
“It is disappointing being so close to a win and then they equalise, especially when I think Villa hadn’t created a lot in the second half, after their chances in the first. I believe the turning point was the penalty because afterwards we lost some composure and became nervous in getting over the line; in the end that cost us.

"We are disappointed tonight, but there are positives. If you listen to 59 specialists, 58 of them said we would lose today, so we should be happy.”

On Villa's approach...
“You could see a few times that we had chances in the first half but there was a danger from set-pieces. You know Villa will lift the ball behind the defence and aim for set-pieces or crosses, and they are dangerous at that. At home when they don’t have space in behind, and are without John Carew, they are not the same threat.”

On the unusual formation...
“With Abou Diaby you don’t know if he is a midfielder or a striker. He has the power to go passed players and he plays off the striker, so our formation was a 4-4-1-1.”

On the penalty decision...
“It was a committed game. I felt overall the referee had a good game, but on the penalty I think the first foul was by [Gabriel] Agbonlahor on [William] Gallas, and that the second was by Gallas.”

On proving the critics wrong...
“I feel that we have the quality and a fantastic spirit because everybody said we would lose today, and in the end we were unfortunate. We lost [Alex] Song just before half-time and had Adebayor suspended. Since Sunday I have watched what people are allowed to do I England and, being as objective as possible, it [the red card] is still difficult to understand.”

On being realistic...
“I think we have to keep the belief we have in the squad, because we have played Villa, Man United, Chelsea and Liverpool and lost just once. We have improved in the last two months tremendously, and we look more solid. We are young and I think the same team today with one year more, would not let Villa come back.”

On injuries ahead of Sunday...
“I don’t think Song will be fit, and [Gael] Clichy should be alright for Sunday, and Adebayor will be back.”

Where on earth did you get that from?

What about when he was asked "What was the coming together between you and Martin O'Neill about?" "Nothing." Or what about when he came out and said the Villa staff, and I quote "Bullied" the referee? Or, my personal favourite, where he said they had "Too many back" at the end! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

As for what he said about the penalty, that's ridiculous, gabby never even touched Gallas, he just ran alongside him and Gallas lunged at him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Arsenal.com

Ah, that explains everything I needed to know.

That was not a response to anything you spoke about, I just said it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


First of all the rule is not about the last man it's about a clear goal situation. That means being the last man on the corner and fouling from behind won't result to a red card. This basically means a red card is only shown when one is fouled while on a one-on-one with the opposition keeper.
I could argue that in this situation is not a clear goal chance as Toure is near him but it does not matter as the foul is not even from behind... Gallas is right next to him and you'll agree on this if you're not biased (here). Gallas falls behind and fouls Gabby while falling! As in a situation where a foul is conceded at the edge of the box and the fouled player falls inside of it it can be deceiving... [I'm not saying these two situations have anything alike apart from the deceiving part] in my opinion it's clear that Gallas fouls him while falling behind him which is different to fouling him from behind.

And it's clear that you are being one-sided here cause if you really wanted to talk about red cards then you'd talk about Gabby's foul from behind on [I don't remember who] which was a clear red as he had no intention to tackle the ball.


I totally disagree with that but it falls to personal judgement.


Did he refer to the situation in Villa's goal or to the last part of the game as a whole? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

You've contributed to your own downfall here. You say he was to the right of Gabby? That means Gabby is goalside of Gallas when Gallas makes the foul, so without question, Gabby will get to the goal unobstructed - since Gallas is the other side of him - and Toure is near the other side of the box when you see the replays. Whether he would have scored or not is irrelevant, it was a clear goalscoring opportunity so he should have been sent off. He didn't even get a yellow card FFS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Gallas challenge was fairly wreckless, he was quite a way behind the ball but launched himself at it anyway, there was no way he was getting there.

Yes, that was a bad attempt at a foul. But he got what he deserved. Was it dangerous? no. Was he last man? no. Did he make much contact? no. It was a yellow card and last warning, but if he got sent off for that, it would have been stupid, especially after Gallas didn't even get a yellow.

You say I am being one-sided/bias, yet you think Gabby should have been sent off, but Gallas not? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)


I can't think of anyone really. Silvestre, Gallas, Toure, Laursen, Sagna.. none of these should be playing for a top 4 team. I can't believe how badly owned Arsenal got in the Cole/Gallas deal, Ashley is arguably the best player in the league at the moment for his position, I can't really think of anyone doing their job better than what he's doing for Chelsea so far. While Gallas is consistantly throwing games away, he has no confidence anymore, he has to go.


He was referring to that last incident, the goal. When he said they had too many men back, the interviewer just had no time for Wenger anymore, he just responded with a very sarcastic "Really?". That's Wengers problem, Arsenal, since he's been there, have never lost a game fairly. It's always been the other team have cheated or bullied his players, the other team have been lucky or been asking the ref to give things there way. He is so paranoid.

He's also hypocritical, he said there should never have been 4 minutes yesterday and complained that we scored in the added time. Forgetting Arsenal were given 4 minutes at the Eimirates last season and scored in the added time. What makes it worse is that Zat Knight scored in the 2nd minute of added time, and if he's complaining that there was 2 minutes added on.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Dec 27 2008, 05:00 PM

I also said I believe the foul was made from the side and not from behind so it does not matter if he's the last man. As for the yellow, that is a mistake as a penalty is always (at least) a yellow no matter the nature of the violation.


No I think neither should have been sent off. What I'm saying is you cannot say the ref was bad only by focusing on the penalty incident while at the same time you ignore that other foul.

Anyway, it's a stupid argument... we clearly are getting nowhere... as usual... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Call me crazy but I think Toure is the best CB in the EPL. He's not having a very good season but he's been the best in the last 3-4 seasons for me.
In the long term Arsenal got owned in that deal as the French has been terrible for them but in my opinion when the deal went through, Gallas was better than Cole at LB, was one of the best at CB and could also play very well at RB if needed (which is the reason why he argued with Mourinho in the first place). But he has been very negative since he joined the Gooners. I also think he's a worthless male ('man' does not apply in his case) but that is another story...
And I rate Sagna and Clichy highly.

At least we agree on the Wenger is paranoid.

I think you have it mixed up there. "The foul was made from the side so it doesn't matter if he was the last man". I think you'll find it's "He's the last man, so it doesn't matter whether the fould is from the side". If you're last man, you're off. Poor refereeing and is a minimum of a red and a penalty. Funnily enough there was another penalty incident at the weekend where the player was fouled from the side, while also being last man. The Newcastle player was sent off, and rightfully so. But are Newcastle in the "big 4"? Nope!



Toure? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I think I'd feel that somebody had been drinking if they even named him in the top 10. He is always injured and when he plays they generally don't defend well. The only thing going for him is that he plays next to Gallas, that'd make anyone look good. Gallas was okay at Chelsea, but like you said he had to play at full back because he was nowhere near as good as the CBs they had. He really isn't a good defender anymore and has way too much baggage.. what posessed Wenger to ever make him captain? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Sagna is very hot and cold for me, at times wingers seem to just walk past him, other time he's unbeatable. Clichy I agree with, he's about the only defender Wengers bought in that I consider top 4 material.

Gareth Barry scored his 50th Villa goal yesterday, on his 419th appearance for the club on the day he was restored as captain. Well done him!

What a game !! I'm very impressed with how Villa kept pressing and Knight was a Knight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Arsenal were not at their best, then where always a step too slow in midfield, but I must say if Arsenal could get two goals in that game, then I am very keen to see what they do when they are motivated !! Wenger might not be as impressive in the past two seasons, but he knows what his team needs and he has a lot of potential in his starting 11 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

??? No. Not always.

Last man means you have to go.. because you're stopping a goal scoring opportunity.

I think it's a bit harsh on us to say Arsenal weren't motivated.

not necessarily it does depend on a number of things, i can't comment on the incident because i didn't see it (simply because i don't watch english football) but it's not as clear cut as that Kurt