Real went "4 years" without winning a single trophy and still their fans went to the Bernabeu. how can you justify that? you hate Madrid, fine, but don't tell me their fans are a bunch of hypocrite glory-hunters who leave their team alone when it's going through a tough time, because they are not and they don't. Santiago Bernabeu has always been like this.



I don't get what you mean! I think a 60,000 or 65,000 seated stadium is enough for both Milan and Inter. Juve's new stadium is going to be 40,000 seated!!



I'm talking about their players and staff not their fans. guys like Ronaldo, Rooney, Vidic, Tevez ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif) ), Ferdinand, Carrick, etc. they are arrogant in my eyes.



Like I explained above, Real went through 4 trophy-less years and their fans still came to the stadium. I can't accept your logic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)



According to this, which I think is accurate, The last time we had an average of +70k was the 1992-93 season. I don't remember those days... ever since I remember watching Milan games, San Siro has always been half empty except for a couple of big league and CL games. I don't think it's possible for Italian teams to win the fans back to the stadiums like 80's and early 90's...

Well you can't really say the people who attend the stadiums are just the only fan Madrid have got.

How do you explain the world wide sales of the Madrid franchise? All Bernabeu fans? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Look mate, I can tell you numerous instance of galatico fans (Zidane is God,Figo is the best, Ronaldo is a legend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) who two years ago declared themselves as lifelong Barca supporters. Can you even imagine that? A madrid fan supporting Barca or even wishing them well in football? These guys don't even know what I mean when I say Catalonia...

These zeddie are the glory hunters.

Perhaps Pana overstated when he said they're all glory hunters. But I think if you count percentages of 'fans'. Real, ManU, Chelsea and Barca have the highest percentage of glory hunters in them (which might be small say, 10-40%, but is still large compared to other clubs)

Ask them who di Stefano is? Or who was Robson? Or about how well they did under Vialli? Or if they remember Cruyff's contribution...and they'll just stare back.

How can you call yourself a fan, if all you care about is the present with no idea about the past?

I'm a Milan fan, and I'm proud of our CLs and scudettos, but that doesn't mean you remain unaware of the seasons spent in Serie B, and the wilderness of the mid 90s.

However I think I'm forgiven if I can't tell you in details about Gre-No-Li. But hey, at least I know them and what they did.

This post has been edited by Jack Sparrow: Oct 16 2008, 10:06 AM

Have you asked those kind of question from the 80,000 Bernabeu crowd? I'm sorry, but what you guys say that 'go and ask X & Y' sounds very very unrealistic and *ahem* silly to me.



Am I supposed to believe this?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)



Again, am I supposed to believe this? you're just saying these things but have no proof to back them with. just HOW do you know that 10-40% of Madrid, Barca, Chelsea and Man U fans are glory hunters? HOW??!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You know, it's funny to call teams like Madrid and Barca's fans glory hunters when they're always beside their team even if they spent four season without winning a single trophy, but say Milan fans (those who live in Milan/ Lombardy/ Italy) are not, when a few seasons of mediocrity in the league + Calciopoli in the league was enough to for them to not attend the matches like they did when the team was at its good days...

Ok..fine..don't ask X or Y or Z or whoever.

Just ask yourself, how suddenly in the Ronaldinho era, the number of Barca shirts shot up. Or how suddenly Chelsea are the second/third most supported EPL team from being nowhere 10 years ago.

What happened? All those 'eternally true' fans suddenly decided to stand up and be counted. Face it Chelsea started winning stuff, people noticed, and people who had never ever followed football, but now couldn't ignore it, needed a team to support. And bada boom, bada bing they choose the most winning team.

It started with Beckham mania. And it continued with Liverpool's Istanbul. If you ever went to goal.com's India site...and heard the fan answers. The question is 'Since when do you support Liverpool?' 'Oh..when I saw Istanbul, I was really amazed...blahblahblah'. Benitez is the greatest manager ever. Torres the best forward ever. You read the comments too.

As for 10-40%.

Considering that there might be millions of fans, that does consitute a very small number. It's not the same as saying 3 out of 4 people you meet are glory hunters.

Frankly speaking, everyone who's not a native of the club's city, starts out as glory hunters. Maybe later they develop a genuine interest in the club. But there is no hiding that keeping Madrid's huge worldwide fanbase, and the relatively low age of the fans, it's a glory hunting phenomenon.

As for your 4 year argument...those 4 years were always a case of almost there. It was never a 4 years of darkness. Let Madrid go through a Leeds united or a Juventus like period and we'll talk about 'true fans'. 5 will get you 20, you'd see a sudden sudden fall.

If I could or knew how, I'd draw up figures of how much Juventus shirt sales have fallen in India. But it's enough to walk on the streets to know that. The numbers show up in front of your eyes.

Don't ever compare Chelsea with Barca and Madrid. I'm not even talking about Chelsea. I'm talking about Madrid and Barca, even though I dislike the latter. in Ronaldinho era the shirt sales increased? so what? that's not the point. are you trying to sidetrack from the topic? we're talking about attendance and Madrid have always had an almost full stadium in their home games as far as I remember. why do you keep changing the topic to Galacticos era or Chelsea comparisons or Liverpool's Istanbul, etc.?? these things have nothing to do with the fact that Madrid have the highest home game attendance in Europe.

Look, we're talking very generally. I don't care what people's comments on goal.com India or whatever are and I'm certainly not going to change my mind and what I see every time Madrid have a home game by some people's comments either. I've watched Real Channel probably more than any of you guys and have seen countless interviews with the fans before Madrid's home games, outside the stadium. if I'm ever gonna judge anything based on what people say, I'll go with these people not with a bunch of Madrid haters' opinions.

4 trophy-less seasons is definitely a dark period for a winning team like Madrid. and don't hold your breath for the day Madrid go through a Leeds or Juventus because they're neither financially unstable [and will never be] nor a bunch of cheaters. they sure have some dirty policies. but it's just that, dirty. not illegal nor cheating on others.

And this bit, you did not answer:




Milan's average home attendance dropped almost 13,000 the season after the Calciopoli. had this happened to Madrid, wouldn't you have said that 13,000 people are a bunch of 'glory hunters' who left their team alone because they knew the team would have no chance of winning the league title with an 8-point deduction?? of course you would have said that...

and how have you come to this conclusion? especially for club thats had it's hands in the royal family and goverments pocket (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Except for the bold part, agree with everything else. Everyone can rationalize this subject whichever way they want, but the fact is, Real Madrid fans have been more attentive than our fans.

It's also worth mentioning that Spain as a country is doing much much better than Italy. Spain is financially thriving while Italy is going down the drain. That, for sure, does affect season ticket holders and attendance in general.

Ah finally some discussion here, it's been dead silent for a week!


I don't think it's impossible. There is a way. They will accept to sell it if Milan guarantee that they will renew it... (this is only a guess but it has happened here)


First of all, I don't hate Madrid. In fact I respect them for they are clearly the most successful team in Europe. But I do loather their attitude, they are as arrogant as it gets. Clearly (again) the most arrogant set of fans I know of!
Secondly, where did I say that Real fans are glory hunters? You asked what's wrong with being a glory hunter (I still can't believe you respect those people) and I replied on that, I never connected it with Real's fans...


Of course they have the highest percentage of glory hunters but that is because they are the most popular teams in Europe and hype brings you fake fans. Can you even imagine how many of those Milan acquired just because of Ronaldinho? I'm sure there are a lot of them...


That and the fact that calcio d'Italia went through a huge crisis just two years ago are grave factors...

This post has been edited by dst: Oct 16 2008, 09:14 PM

The arrogance of United fans is by far superior to the Real ones.

They're not only arrogant but also stupid and dumb. The fact that they actually believe they're the biggest club in the world makes them look like muppets every single day of the week.

LOVE FOOTBALL, HATE M UNITED. Hope those feckers get fecked finantially.

^^


Heh heh...one of these days, I should write a thesis on the 'Elegance of Post Prose in the works of Portikins'. Brevity truly is the soul of wit.



@zeddie: Read your post. I made a mistake. I wasn't talking about attendance. Since I think it's kinda unfair to say, only people with season tickets are fans. But if you mean purely attendance, then I don't have a lot to argue with. Since the two big Madrid clubs are virtually part of the Madrid city landscape.

As for Italy and attendance...I would put it down to three things:

1. The economic conditions simply made it cheaper to sit at home and watch the game on tv as much as possible and buy tickets to the big games rather than season tickets.
2. The calciopoli crisis. Case in Point: My buddy R7, had gone to Milan to watch some match from the first season post calciopoli. He'd been picked up from the airport in a taxi and the driver was an Interista who spoke English. The man said, until now he'd always purchased season tickets, but he isn't gonna do it for that season, coz of the scandal. And this was an Interista, a guy who had every reason to be happy about calciopoli. Italians love their clubs, but they love their football more I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
3. The footballing violence. Spanish and English and German stadiums are much safer than Italian ones. They also have far higher attendances. Coincidence?
4. Stadium facilities. From what Tennie and R7 have told me, even though we love the atmosphere of the San Siro, the fact is it doesn't hold a candle to the Bayern Munich or the Emiraes stadium. Why would people pay large sums to sit in 'sub-standard' arenas. Remember we don't own the San Siro. Yet we had to do all the work installing turn stiles and CCTV etc.

P.S: Perhaps the lackadaisical transfer policy might have something to do with it. Since our season tickets did show an upturn since this season. But I do believe that the above four reasons are more relevant.

This post has been edited by Jack Sparrow: Oct 17 2008, 08:30 AM

This is freakin BS AC MILAN RULES!!! The only reason why Real madrid are on top is because of how much money they got...rich turd mutha fathers...Milan is the most successful team in the last 20 years and it has way more PASSIONATE FANS and that is a fact because most people who support real, man u, or even poop heads inter dont support the team but its players...see the difference so "F" this list and FORZA MILAN!!!!!!!

My language is sencored (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by speedemon: Oct 25 2008, 09:40 PM

I like your subtle way of thinking! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I like

(IMG:http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/borat-02.jpg)

btw if they actually stopped going to game because of 4 seasons without silverware then they would be the biggest muppets in the world and no club in the world has that right. (in our case what pissed the fans off the most was the lack of effort from the management, also calciopoli must be considered. while real management have always blown money every summer so they really have nothing to complain about) not only that but there also ungrateful lil brats, who else would ***** after winning league title because they dint play attacking or beautiful football (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) thats just pathetic. theres teams that havent won anything in decades yet they have won anything, so what real have had more success then others does that suddenly give them the right to complain when they arent? it just further shows the support they receive is entirely down to their success, take it away and they have nothing.

This post has been edited by Habitant: Oct 26 2008, 03:11 AM

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

They DID go to the stadium in those 4 years as long as I remember. (IMG:http://www.pic4ever.com/images/352nmsp.gif)

What's next?

"If they actually kept going to the game in those 4 seasons without silverware then they were the biggest glory hunters ever"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)