Hmm. Not sure if that is true or not, but Leonardo is one person in the Milan family who I do believe.

@ Kurt

Pato has started more games? SO WHAT? he has spent less minutes on the pitch!!!

Maybe you misread the arguement zd, I'll show you exactly why I was talking about starts.


He says Pato didn't start 13 games. Does it, or does it not look like we're talking about starts? Oh, and he did start 13 games in the league last season, do you, or do you not agree with that, zd?


See the highlighted bit? Does that say starts or minutes/games? It says starts doesn't it? Hence why I bought up the stats for games started. He also states it wasn't better, but his games:STARTS ratio was better, or do you want to disagree with this as well, zd?


Giancarlo then says he made more starts than pato? Yup, I'll agree with that. But scored less.. eh? He scored less? No. Bojan scored 10 to Pato's 9. Whether they played 1000 games or just 1, the fact remains Bojan scored more goals, or do you disagree?

This is why I was talking about starts. You obviously misread it or something?

P.S. This isn't a shot at you zd, just trying to get my point accross.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Sep 7 2008, 11:38 PM

What have I got to do with Giancarlo's posts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I'm saying Bojan has played 2 and half more games compared to Pato and yet has scored just one more goal. Pato has done better considering he has spent a considerable less time on the pitch.



NO I disagree!

Bojan has played 31 league games and scored 10

Pato has played 18 league games and scored 9. he obviously has done better both in goal:game and goal:minute ratios.

Question: does the minutes played : goals ratio really determine how good a player is?

No. that's why I said on the other thread Pato is not overrated because he did more than scoring 9 goals in 18 games.

But it is obvious for a striker the number of goals is very important and many people judge them based on this.

You're missing the point, zd. The reason I bought up the stats I did was to prove Giancarlo wrong. You're talking about something entirely different. I am not in disagreement with the things you said. I'm not entirely sure why you got involved in the arguement in the first place.

All the things I said are statistically and mathematically correct and so are yours.. but we're talking about two different things! Me and Giancarlo were arguing about 'starts:goals' hence me highlighting the word 'start' so much so you'd realise this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

You disagree? Pato scored 9, Bojan scored 10. Giancarlo said he scored more.. I just can't see how you can come to this conclusion, he scored less.

And no Tennie, it doesn't mean they're a better player.

I'll tell you what I meant by that while I'm still awake. Pato has scored more goals per minutes played. How many games he played compared to Bojan is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the facts.

Pato scored more frequently. Regardless, Bojan had far more playing time than Pato. That's a fact.

You can deny the facts all you want, Kurt. It doesn't make you right.

It is also my opinion, Bojan is a special guy as is Alexandre Pato. They shouldn't be called overrated because they are just kids. I think both will be stars in the future. I however think that Pato will score more than Bojan, but that's my own opinion.

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Sep 7 2008, 11:54 PM

Kurt, I understand what you're saying. but just one more thing: the number of goals scored alone has no value at all if it's not considered and examined next to another factor like the number of games played, or the number of minutes. Bojan scored 10 and Pato 9. that's right. but we can't overlook the fact that Bojan did it in 31 games and Pato in 18 games (or 1540 and 1300 minutes respectively). number of games played and goals scored are always next to each other at any website. that's all I've been trying to say.

This post has been edited by zdrossoneri: Sep 8 2008, 12:01 AM

I wasn't denying facts, everything I put was statistically correct. You just worded your arguement wrongly by saying goals:starts instead of goals:minutes, that's all.

Pato to score more than Bojan? I don't disagree. I think Pato, although he's not a #9 type striker or anything, the position he plays will give him more goals, in my opinion. While Bojan will play a wider role for the most part of his career.. well, as long as he's at Barca I think he probably will.

My last post on the matter, PM me if you feel you want to continue anything.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Sep 8 2008, 12:02 AM

I did misstate. I'm not exactly feeling well right now.

So I may have misworded. My point is Pato has scored more frequently than Bojan, because Pato has had less playing time than Bojan.

Guys, scoring isn't the only criteria to measure a player's success. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Otherwise we'd all be talking the best player of all time were either Pele or Romario. Maradona would be no where near the top.

My $0.02.

Your .02 cents... not mine. Scoring has quite a bit to do with it.

I simply don't think Bojan is better than Pato in any way...

Dear friend, there's no such thing as goals:starts. where have you brought it from? it's goals:appearances. in every website, every official club website, every sport channel, every paper, etc. it's apps(g) not starts(g)!!

Maybe a striker starts 10 games but make 30 appearances overall and score 15.

Does that mean he's scored 15 goals in 10 games? NO. he has scored 15 goals in 30 games...
Again does that mean he has a 1.5 goal per game record?? of course not!! it's 0.5 goals per game.

krkic and pato are at about the exact same stage. It's arguments like these where we start to get a little too far ahead of ourselves. There's no evidence either way that bojan is better OR pato is better..all that's clear is that when the dust settles about 15 years from now we may be talking about 2 of the greatest ever.. Nobody will ever be able to say who out of Zizou or Ronaldo Fenomeno was better than the other..all that can be agreed upon is the word "legends"..with that said Ronaldo scored tons more than Zizou did..



agreed. whether or not Bojan got more minutes of playing time than Pato last season has little to zero meaning when attempting to figure out whose better. Bojan had 10 and Pato 9? that doesnt really say anything to me anyways, who cares about those numbers?..ultimately all we can gauge is quality. players all develop differently, and ultimately their greatness will be defined by what and how much they win, AND how much THEY contributed to these wins..krkic scoring 10 and pato scoring 9 last season goes almost nowhere to explaining how good they both are/will be anyways..i feel it's impossible to gauge at this point how their careers will go..

one this is for sure that neither of them are like messi. cuz messi came onto the scene, and after his first year on the senior squad he was their best player and his country's best player..

This post has been edited by vnata001: Sep 8 2008, 07:33 AM