In Lippi's situation it was more like Moggi won him the titles, not the players. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

So you're saying it was coincidence? Because obviously coincidence is more true than facts in football nowadays? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Zidane was a crappy player? No, he wasn't. But that doesn't mean he fit the team either. Compare players of different eras? How am I comparing different era's?


(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I know Becks was a seen as a saviour for Engalnd in the mid and late 90ies. He was like a promise. A promise for a better future. To bring England back to the top of international football. That he did obviously not achieve.
He had moments or periods when he was world class for sure. But he was too much of a show man to really use his talent. I think that's why SAF allowed him to leave ManU...he knew Becks would fit in at Real with all that media presence (even much mroe than in Manchester) etc.
He was close. An unfinished player.

You really believe United did not win anything in that period because Beckham left? He was so good that he lifted a whole team on his own? Come on. And then in Madrid why couldn't he win anything until last season?

Why isn't Zidane a crappy player? I'm using the same logic you used; Beckham in United, United win. Beckham out, United lose. Beckham rocks! Zidane in Real, Real don't win. Zidane out, Real win. Zidane sucks! By era I mean different period... as in the period Beckham was there and the period after that.

You're completely miss-quoting here. Did I say Beckham was the ONLY reason United won things while he was there? No. But he clearly made a difference, enough difference for them to be much less succesful after he left.



Maybe Beckham and Zidane didn't fit in Madrid? It's the same principle as Sheva. Milan won alot wtih him, with him gone we're struggling to be anything like the team we were with him. But is he still the unstoppable goalscorer at Chelsea? No, he just doesn't fit.

I feel really bad for viewers of Sky Sports (UK verison). They're now interviewing Max Bretos (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/puke.gif) as the 'expert' on MLS about the American view on Beckham getting his 100th cap.

As for Beckham's quality...well, I'm no fan of the guy but he was quite good at Manchester as part of their midfield. Reallyreally good. Thing is, even so I think the other three guys at the time (Scholes, Giggs, Keane) were even better in their respective positions. It was one hell of a midfield.

As for Madrid, one can't really necessarily judge anyone's performances in the 2003 or so - 2006 era because the place was an absolute zoo with the inmates running the asylum. Not gonna judge anyone's ability/quality/whatever from that era because I don't think it'd really be fair.

What I found most telling about Beckham currently was a piece on the BBC sport website today. (link) I didn't see the France-England game - or any other - since I was in an airplane at the time, but this takes a pretty dim view on Beckham's future with the England NT.

Of course he was playing great when he was there. And because of that, they were a worse team when he left. We're agreeing on that. But just like he was not the only reason they were winning, he was not the only reason they were losing when he left, that's what I'm saying.


So, using your logic again, does Sheva suck or rock!?? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Anyway, I don't even know if we agree about his quality in the first place. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) i think he is/used to be a very good player but I do not consider him among the best of his generation. Like we've said many times before, these thing are subjective...

This post has been edited by dst: Mar 27 2008, 06:51 PM

I do agree with you about Scholes, Keane, Giggs being better at their position than Becks.

He was probably about the best player for England, which doesn't say that much. But you could tell he was really pushing himself very hard just to be on par with the rest of the team. I don't see him picking up many more caps. They will probably pick him for a few friendlies, I think he only needs 9 more caps to become our highest ever capped outfield player.

I dunno whether he sucks or not, what he does in his personal life is none of my business. But he certainly rocks. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

^^^

Boys are scary. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I don't get your point? a) Backs left and didn't do much at Real, but ManU did much after him. They stayed top, and nowdays are first in EPL and CL contenders.
(IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) It's not really up to how much you win. It's up to how you play and some other things as well. Keane, Giggs and Scholes are and were better then Beckham IMO. Their effort raised Becks to a new level. Did he lived up to that level? No, I think not. He failed with Real, he failed with England. He was a poor captain for England IMO. If we compare Becks and the other three guys, they all are underestimated. He had the luck to be the one to pick up the fame. And he had the pretty look (I wouldn't be the one to know, I heard so.. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) ) that made everyone mark him. Soon it all stopped. His hair went ridiculous, his statements and stroys even more, but above all his displays.

Was Becks a good RM? No question. Was he one of the world's greatest? For England yes. And he was an icon. Something England yearned for decades.

Beckham has a better goalscoring ratio and assist ratio(by far) than all those other players mentioned. He was the superstar of the team when he played for manchester and it wasn't only because of his looks, although that did help. People who dislike him or disrespect him are jealous of him pure and simple.

Pirlo is having an stinker of a season with us and he was also very bad last year, overall, but that doesn't mean he is not a world class player, because he has proven himself. So did Beckham at Manchester.

The mod has spoken! All that disagree shall be banished from the realm of Milanfan!

Then I shall be banned (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)