I'm just curious - Why do these 'Ultras' have any power in a club at all? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

If you read the second sentence I said the clubs should disown themselves from the ultras. That way it would only be the minority that would be punished.

BTW why should the majority be punished? You're talking about people who actually pay to watch their teams and pose no threat to anyone else. It seems very unfair to punish innocent people while seemingly letting the troublemakers go free (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

It's more to do with identifying the trouble makers than just stopping Serie A for no reason. As you saw, when the games went on last week, there was all sorts of problems. In the Atalanta - Milan game there was no police to interfere which is a big concern considering how serious the trouble was. If they stopped for a little while and thought things through to prevent such nonsense in the future, then it will definitely be helpful.

My point exactly Max. The issue here shouldn't be the Laziale's death from the policeman's gun. It ought to be why in the Bergamo there was no protection?!! Or why the ultras were allowed to stop the match in the first place. There should be enough police power to evac the place off these militants (they are NOT ultras), when such incidents happen. In this scenario, by resorting to force, the militants have gotten what they wanted. It's even set off a precedent!!

I'm sure banning(don't really like this one) or placing heavy restrictions on the Ultras can be done WITHOUT suspending the league.

The Ultras are one of my favourite things about Serie A. I used to dream about being a part of FDL. Now things are a little different. There's a lot more militancy in the approach. And maybe it's a reflection on the socio-economic conditions in the country? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

England banning the ultras is a different case. Despite kurt's and Ash's best attempts to be b@d @$$, the English are intrinsically good, law abiding, society-serving individuals. If a law is there, they tend to follow it. D'ya know they even queue up for the bus (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'll tell you kurt's gonna have to wait a LOOOOONG time to catch a bus in India!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am not inferring anything .. and I wasn't directing anything to you, so don't take it personally (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I am basing this assumption on mere logic, where if Serie A would be suspended for more than one week. Serie A would lose credibility and as Kaka' said in FI :



Now, the reports in the media are blown out of proportions as they would manipulate words and pick and choose the right quotes that would set ablaze this whole dilemma. How come I know this?! Because I am one who takes the media propaganda into account and have read several scholars who have dissected the media's politics.

Therefor, I base my theory on an 'assumption' that Serie A wont be suspended because it would damage more than it would fix! And with that said, I believe Abate's option would be both feasible and logical.

shutting down the game won't help.. these things happened because of the game, and without it something worse could happen..

and i'm against the "away fans should be banned" decision.. if they have the away dan to attack, maybe they will attack the players.. there's no guarantee this won't happen..

these 'rage' happens everywhere in the world. and the standard procedure to control it is by tightening up the security at the stadium, which is already tight enough in italy.. maybe the official's gonna try something new.. neutral ground rules maybe..

One big reason in stopping football violence over here was that they stopped putting it in the papers - the troublemakers (Who just wanted to be known as 'bad ***') were then not getting any exposure, people had no idea who these idiots were so they gave up on it. Obviously there's still a few people that do it, especially when it comes to playing in Europe, because they know it'll get noticed. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)


I have to agree here. Let's say this season was just stopped, I would be shocked if UEFA didn't stop all Italian sides from playing in European competition as they would have an unfair advantage with not playing in the league. They would also not be able to play in Europe the following season since they wouldn't have qualified for it though league position. This would massively impact clubs financially and I don't think there's any doubt that the majority of players would want to leave the league and play elsewhere.

Serie A would not only lose what little bit of reputation it had around the World, it would also lose alot of money and it's players. I don't see how that will help at all.

The police are scared to go into curvas, that is why there is always problems there. Perhaps if they were to go heavy handed into the curvas then things might change, but I read that if the Italian police attack Italian people there is an outcry, but if the police attack foreigners then there is no problem. No wonder there is so much trouble in curvas.

BTW I don't think all the ultras are bad, it seems that a minority spoil it for the majority.

I must admit that I used to be amazed watching the ultras with their displays and choreographies. But, unfortunately, all we seem to see now is the darker side of ultra culture and the thing is is that it's seriously affecting the Serie A - that is why I think the clubs must disown themselves from ultras completely.

how can you disown what is essentially the club itself...maybe milan are different but smaller clubs are essentially run by and for the Ultra's so its impossible to disown yourself (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

The Amato legislation passed in February set out very detailed regulations for ultra/club stuff. This includes stuff like: club subsidization of ultra tickets, club sale of blocks of tickets to ultras for the ultras to then resell at profits, club subsidization of the coreos, ultras having free concessions to sell food/gear/stuff at and around games. Legally, clubs can't do any of that now -- and the ultra groups don't like it one bit. This is why the Milan fans were 'silent' for a couple of games earlier in the season. It's why Lazio owner Lotito has a bodyguard: he's had multiple death threats since he yanked the concession stands from the Lazio ultras 3 years ago.

The police need to enforce the laws. But it isn't as simple as that, because in Italy there's an undercurrent of distrust/disrespect for 'law'. There are also some pretty serious economic problems; the gap between rich/poor is getting bigger, unemployment is high, etc etc. ITaly is still dealing with the negative effects of converison to the euro. The poor economy is feeding into the general discontent that we see manifested as rioting ultras.

So it is really a societal thing that needs to be addressed. Calcio needs to do its part but so does the government, the church, business, and individual people.

Brilliant insight !!! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

The Euro has increased the gap between rich/poor in Europe (middle class is diminishing at the same rate) .. More importantly, exports are decreasing (and not only from Italy, but all over the EU). One of the main issues why GB wont convert from it's Sterling.

About the Ultras, yeah, I remember you talked about them earlier ... And a radical change such as what the Amato had taken, needs time for the Ultra's to take in, as they have been given such privileges for sometime now.

What are you talking about? what clubs are run by ultras? I think you are rather misguided.

Unfortunately there is a minority of ultras(or hooligans classing themselves as ultras) who are giving the Serie A a very bad name and have been doing so for a while. Everytime there is trouble in Italy it seems that ultras are responsible for it. Thing is this can't keep happening because sooner or later UEFA are going to step in and sanction the Serie A. That could have disastrous consequences for the team I love and the league I enjoy, and something needs to be done about it before that happens and the only way I can see is for the clubs to totally disown themselves from the ultras. After all with no Serie A there will be no ultras, and I would rather carry on watching Serie A (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Excellent post (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

ok i know nothing and you know it all..thats fair enough you'll no longer need or want to hear my opinion...leave it to ya (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)